Its a wonderful Franchise

by David Bloom on Dec 21, 2005 9:35 PM EST

I have to apologize to the readers. No, I am not talking about the down time we experienced here last night until about midday today. What I am talking about is after years of being subjected to the treatment of Vince and Chuckles its easy to get your head messed up on what is happening here.

What the Rays are building here is called a success story. They don't want to just put the franchise at the .500 level for just next year. They want to build a team that will win 400 games over the next five years. Doing that does not allow for short sighted moves. While they sit back and watch all the teams burn money on pieces that do not fit well together, the Rays have done nothing that will hurt their chances to build upon what was achieved last year in the second half.

So, I suggest you do what I did today. Grab yourself some Devil Ray's Cool Aid that has a shelf life of five years, and get ready to watch some meaningful games that will take place throughout. Its going to be a lot of fun.

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Is it Spring Training already?

How did I lose these 3 months already?

For shame, I must have Van Winkle's disease....

by Jacob Larsen on Dec 22, 2005 12:23 AM EST reply actions

Questions for you David......

No problem drinking the kool aid. But what's the difference between what LaMar did last offseason and Friedman is doing this offseason? They both are taking the same approach and using the same tact with the same talent in the organization.

What has changed beyond free parking, fewer concession sales, and a cleaner Trop? How is it when LaMar sat pat we all said he was lazy and Vince was unwilling to improve the team. When Friedman and Stu do it, it's just an extension of some great master plan?

And I'm honestly asking. I respect your objectivity about the Rays...so I do weigh your opinion heavily. Thanks, and I know I don't post here often, but I love the blog you three do.

by RaysBB on Dec 22, 2005 6:37 AM EST reply actions

Here is the deal

This is a weak free agent class relatively. There are not an abundnace of starting pitchers available that are quality. So we were not going to use that avenue of a type A free agent to improve our pitching situation.

When there is an opportunity to make use of a value situation where the return is better than the player we give up, they will do that deal. This is the Dewon case.

Unlike LaMar where they were filling the nucleus with has beens, and bad players, this group has decided that we have our crock pot. We do not have to make a trade. We'll let teams come to us who are in a desperate situation to fill holes. Examples are Red Sox and Marlins. Its all about market timing.

Have many teams made use of the non-tendered as a time to go Holiday shopping in the past? Not so much, but this is where we pick an undervalued player. This is our version of MoneyBall.

When Lou and Chuck were spending money they wasted on Jose Cruz, Rey Sanchez, Trveor Miller types. That has not happened. Keep the faith. Rome was not built in one winter, judge the product by what happens on the field starting in April.

DRAYS BAY

by David Bloom on Dec 22, 2005 7:14 AM EST up reply actions

Kool aid? Jim Jones a Rays fan?

I'm not going to freak out until they do something negative and I'm not going to drink the kool aid until they do something positive concerning the on-field product.

Getting rid of Naimoli and LaMar -- great.
Buying out Piniella -- good.
Re-branding the team -- fine.
Free parking, bring your own food -- positive gestures.
Cleaning the Trop -- overdue.

They've done all the right things off the field, but until the on-field product is addressed we're still in the same place as if Naimoli and LaMar were still in charge.

There are positive signs:
looking at the talent available in Japan.. serious discussions of trades involving blue-chip prospects.. but until something actually happens (a 3B with a frighteningly low SLG and a third-string catcher not withstanding), I'm neutral.

by RATW on Dec 22, 2005 7:14 PM EST reply actions

Good enough

I wrote a long reply, then realized it all comes back to your last sentence.

We'll see in April. I promise I hope you are right.

I'll say this, I think we may have a different view of Sternberg in 12 months.

by RaysBB on Dec 22, 2005 7:24 PM EST reply actions

Best talent

When have we ever had the team positions plugged this well without making a move. If we had made a move at winter meetings, it would have been more geared towards future talent.

We have just about every position filled with a regular starter with help on the way at Durham.

Come next year when Young is ready we'll be having to bench one of our starters.

DRAYS BAY

by David Bloom on Dec 22, 2005 8:25 PM EST reply actions

Go Eddie Go

"But that's why the Rays are in the trade market - to get high-level major-league prospects for current players with one year remaining on their contracts."

http://rays.tbo.com/rays/MGBUSCNVJHE.html

DRAYS BAY

by David Bloom on Dec 23, 2005 6:42 AM EST up reply actions

But

We havn't improved what we need to. Pitching. We need to bring pitchers up from our minors and in order to bring them up at this point we need to acquire them. We aren't going to be affording free agent pitchers, but we can spend 300k for the callups all over the place.

While we have all of a our positions nicely plugged, and the makings of a decent to good offense, we still have nothing on the mound other than Kaz.

In essence, what I'm saying is that sitting still isn't a positive unless we are finding a way to improve our pitching staff at the same time. Until then, it's nuetral.

BigJon

by BigJon @ DRaysBay on Dec 22, 2005 9:15 PM EST reply actions

Pitching prospects...

Um, we have them...last time I checked...

Jason Hammel and Jamie Shields looke to be pretty good pitching prospects to me....

by Jacob Larsen on Dec 23, 2005 12:00 AM EST up reply actions

Pitching

We have 4/5 of the rotation set with Kazmir,Fossum,Hendrickson,McClung. I think the bullpen is more of a concern right now. Some depth is certainly needed in the rotation.

What would you do? The non-tenders are options, and remaning free agents and trades are areas to improve. I picture deals to be made in Spring where we pluck a pitcher with talent who just does not have a spot on another team. Fossum of 2006.

DRAYS BAY

by David Bloom on Dec 22, 2005 9:31 PM EST reply actions

4/5 of the rotation?

Who would have said that having 80% of the same rotation that made up the worst rotation in baseball last year back for 2006 is good news?

I agree with BigJon (and I think RATW) that standing pat isn't a positive. There is a real good chance that the Rays don't have enough current talent in their organization to win a playoff spot in the next few years. They have to add talent, namely in pitching. Friedman came into this job with some players that had trade value (admittedly maybe not as much as we had hoped with regards to Huff, Baez and Gathright). I was just hoping that he could swing those guys before three (Huff, Baez, Lugo) of them walk away next offseason and while one of them (Gathright) fit a number of teams' needs. He still might....but we are halfway thru this offseason and if you were to judge it on its merits alone, it has to be a disappointment in my opinion.

by RaysBB on Dec 22, 2005 9:54 PM EST reply actions

Exactly

I love Kaz, and I can see fossum in a spot. But Hendrickson is not a good piticher. McClung hasn't shown me the consistency I need to pencil him into the starting rotation either. Hammel is too far a away, shields is interesting and I wouldn't be surprised to see him fitting into that bullpen picture this year.

As to where to get guys, That's the question. If we are serious about getting to 80 wins then we sign guys like Washburn and Millwood.

My take is that we aren't serious about it. We're going to lose another 92 games this year and collect another high draft pick so that next year they can make their move. That's fine if you acknoledge that's what your doing. But don't try and tell me how good we are going to be this year when we havn't improved our starting rotation at all.

BigJon

by BigJon @ DRaysBay on Dec 23, 2005 8:25 AM EST reply actions

Check your facts a little...

Both Hammel and Shields are in AAA, so how in the world are they "too far away?"

by Jacob Larsen on Dec 23, 2005 11:32 AM EST up reply actions

Level

Their level has nothing to do with it. I'm going by what I've seen in their numbers and what I've heard about them. There's a ton of guys who made it to AAA and never played in the majors. Did that mean they were close?

BigJon

by BigJon @ DRaysBay on Dec 23, 2005 11:49 AM EST reply actions

Hammel is, Shields might be as well...

As a homework assignment over Christmas Break, I'd like for everybody to familiarize themselves with Rays prospects.

J-Ham II is one of the most underrated prospects in the Rays system to those in the national media and Shields is right behind him. I love how they say that we don't have any pitching prospects and we have Hammel(Kinda like Zito, but with a better fastball) and Shields(who dominated the Extreme-Hitter friendly Arizona Fall League using a secondary pitch as an outpitch)

by Jacob Larsen on Dec 23, 2005 1:29 PM EST up reply actions

Hendrickson

He is a number 5 pitcher at best. He was one of the luckiest pitchers last year. He had bad numbers overall. Like I said we get lucky with some undervalued pitcher like the way we got Fossum last year. Schields what he did in AFL excites me. What Hammell is able to continue to progress is another guy who can help.

DRAYS BAY

by David Bloom on Dec 23, 2005 12:12 PM EST reply actions

In this case

The first positive is that there have been no negative moves. Nobody is picking up retirement fodder. This has to be considered a good step. Now, if suddenly we're picking up this year's equivalents of Roberto Alomar and Danny Bautista as spring training approaches, all bets are off.

Second...Millwood I could see, but not at the money he's going to get from the desperate Rangers or the overcompensating Red Sox. And Washburn? Ugh. Please, no.

Kazmir is set. I'm perhaps more generous than many in wanting to see what happens when McClung is glued into the rotation instead of bouncing back and forth from rotation to 'pen. I'm a little leery of Fossum, but willing to see another year. I confess I didn't understand the bullpen moves, why some were tendered and others not, but there are still pieces floating around that can be assembled into a workable bullpen. Too early to panic there.

The grade is still "I" for Incomplete, but by no means have they failed yet.

by Not That Chuck on Dec 23, 2005 4:17 PM EST reply actions

Weirdness

I'm starting to agree with you as well....

by Jacob Larsen on Dec 23, 2005 4:51 PM EST up reply actions

Re

I think we may have a different view of Sternberg in 12 months

I would be interested in hearing more of your thoughts on this subject.

The grade is still "I" for Incomplete, but by no means have they failed yet

True. Very true. They haven't made the boneheaded moves of Alomar/Bautista/Castilla/Vaughn/Blum past, but I think a lot of us had higher expectations than simply being one step ahead of LaMar. The bold new leadership has come out of the gates rather timidly. But all it takes is one good move to change a lot of opinions, or at least mine.

by RATW on Dec 23, 2005 6:47 PM EST reply actions

Sternberg

I don't like the fact that there is no commitment in dollars regarding the payroll. I think it's wrong to do what Naimoli did in '99 and what the Jays owner did last year in throwing money at their GM and telling him to spend it. That generally leads to abuse of the payroll.

But did our name even get mentioned once this offseason in terms of taking on payroll? Does anyone here believe that if there was a good free agent out there that cost us a 3yr, $20mil contract that Sternberg would allow Friedman to go after him? At this point, I have my doubts. And if the same silence comes from the Rays HQ next offseason, I think more people will start to hold Sternberg accountable (right now, the honeymoon is still on).

The CC and Rocco deals are good. But they are just extensions of what Naimoli did for Huff (adding team options after arbitration years). I need to see Sternberg willing to spend the money to import the needed pitching.

by RaysBB on Dec 23, 2005 7:10 PM EST up reply actions

but

Maybe we would spend that money, Jay, and maybe we wouldn't. But since, among the top FA's, there was not a single, solitary FA this year who would have fit our needs (and, in terms of the pitchers, our risk/reward criteria), how can you say for sure?

BJ Ryan. He's the only guy I could've justified for us this winter. Not just young enough but also good enough, not just good enough but also young enough. And fills an area of definite need.

Other than Ryan? Not a single match. Not one. The paydays were all too high, and the potential benefits were all too low. And the need was not there.

Are there a few 2nd-tier SP's who might be appealing? Sure, but you could say that every year for most teams. And again, in terms of production/dollar, it's really not worth it. Not right now.

It's one thing to hammer the Rays for trades that they haven't made in this very active trade market. But it's another to nail the front office to the wall for not spending money on a FA crop that a) sucked and b) didn't really help us to the extent that it fills the holes where we have our biggest red flags.

Raystalk at MVN

by Sam @ DRaysBay on Dec 23, 2005 9:23 PM EST reply actions

fair enough

Note though, I just said that I "had my doubts" whether Sternberg spends the money. I admit that it's too early to tell.

But I'll stay skeptical until I see something other than wishful thinking (mine included) offering hope. At this point his words (or lack thereof) offer little hope and his actions (or non-action) offers even less. I don't see any proof that he'll spend money yet....it's just a leap of faith.

by RaysBB on Dec 23, 2005 10:10 PM EST up reply actions