Playing Maddon '06- Situation #1:Should he have left Kazmir in?(The Torborg/Baker Rule)

by Jacob Larsen on Apr 9, 2006 10:02 PM EDT

In "Playing Maddon '06", I will let us Rays fans react and step in Maddon's shoes for certain disputed situations that occur during the season.

The Question is: If you were given this same situation, how would you have reacted?

Situation: Rays Starter Scott Kazmir has pitched 8.2 innings with 119 pitches throw, has just given up 2 consecutive hits and is about to face Vernon Wells with 1 runner in scoring position.

Question: Do you leave Kaz, who is believed to be the future "Ace" of the Rays staff, in and possibly endanger his arm(because of the high pitch count) to close out the game and get a Complete Game Win or do you pull him for closer Dan Miceli?

Maddon's Play: After the 1st Hit, Miceli started warming up in the pen. He kept Kazmir in, until he gave up the 2nd hit. Pulled Kazmir and Miceli quickly got Wells out on 3 pitches.

What's your play?

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Comments

pull him

no need to let him have the chance to lose a great game. If you leave him in, you risk him getting the loss. If you take him out the worst Kaz can do is a no decision.

by jrmoates on Apr 9, 2006 10:30 PM EDT reply actions

Good new feature Jake....

I like it a lot, I hope to see it many times this season.

Anyway,s specifically relating to the senario you presented, I would have left him in, just because the game is only one out away from being over. If you've gone that far, you might as well finish it off. However, if I were 'Playing Maddon', I would have pulled him before the bottom of the eighth for Shawn Camp and brought in Miceli for the ninth.

by Patrick L. Kennedy on Apr 9, 2006 11:15 PM EDT reply actions

Pull Him

I'm a Mets fan, but when I hear the words Scott Kazmir, my heart races. You're welcome, by the way.

Pull him. Mets fans can tell about the horrors of overpitching young stars (look at Paul Wilson and Bill Pulsipher). The stigma of a CG win and the fact that Dan Miceli is required to slam the door should not stop one from exercising sense with young arms.

by zookman12 on Apr 9, 2006 11:19 PM EDT reply actions

C?

Don't send him out for the 9th when he's already thrown 100+ pitches.

If that's not an option, I have to pick one of the two, then I leave him in. Neither of those balls were hit particularly hard. In fact, the first single should have been an out. A couple more pitches aren't going to break him.

I'd also give him an extra day before throwing him again after 120 pitch outing. He's a small boy. Please protect that left arm Joe. He's very important to all of us.

Chuck Lamar, you're fired- Stuart Sternburg

by Tyler on Apr 10, 2006 12:16 AM EDT reply actions

Way too many pitches

I think they should have pulled him before the ninth at the latest. With his young arm I don't see why they would risk injury with a ~120 game so early in the season.

by colin @ DRaysBay on Apr 10, 2006 1:00 AM EDT reply actions

I agree

He should have been out after seven innings in my opinion.

by FLBobcat99 on Apr 10, 2006 8:02 AM EDT up reply actions

I believe

His pitch count after the 7th was 89...

by Jacob Larsen on Apr 10, 2006 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions

Maddon made the right decision

Miceli should have already been up and throwing before Kazmir went out there for the 9th. First guy on, he should have been pulled. Maddon gave him the chance to finish it with another batter. That was generous.

by Benjamin Jones on Apr 10, 2006 6:36 PM EDT reply actions

situation

Did Joe leave Big Bird out for 9 on purpose to make way for the the Kid in AAA.

From will Carroll :"Maybe that complete game thing is going to need a second look. For a guy who admits to reading Malcolm Gladwell, Joe Maddon is going to need to take a second, long look at his plan to get more complete games if it has this kind of result. Mark Hendrickson is surprisingly headed to the DL with shoulder stiffness after his complete game gem. It's a retro move and he'll likely only miss two starts, but it is a shock given his results. I'm not disagreeing with Maddon's contention that it's possible to get more from pitchers, but I am going to argue that there are better ways to do it than just watching closely and hoping the right call is made. No word yet on who will replace Hendrickson in the rotation."

DRAYS BAY

by David Bloom on Apr 11, 2006 8:59 PM EDT reply actions

So...

because Hendrickson turned up stiff, it's verification that Maddon left him in too long? If he had thrown 75 pitches and turned up stiff, would it prove that he took him out too early? Of course not.

That's incredibly superficial analysis by a "pro" like Carroll. Without any information - he links one to another. Probably so that he can say that his predetermined opinion of the situation is correct.

by RaysBB on Apr 11, 2006 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions