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Attendance Legends Field vs Trop

Legends Field had an annouced attendance of 10,400 while the Trop had an announced attendance of 13,400.  It didn't seem as if there were 13 there last night, seemed like there was 8 or 9.

Very telling when a Class A team across the bay can actually divide and affect the attendance for the MLB level game.  Granted, its Roger Clemens, whoopie, but you know what, I take it as proof that this is a baseball market.

There are other conclusions that the basic 50/50 split from Friday night says and most of it is not necessarily positive.  I hope the NDRO took note of what took place yesterday, because it is alarming on many levels.  The best thing I can say is that Tampa Bay loves baseball, and I believe now if a new facility is built (I know keep dreaming), it should be on the Hillsborough side of the bay and not on the Pinellas side.  Heck, I live in north Pinellas and distance is of little concern to me but I was wondering if any of you take anything else out of last night.

Enjoyed the wrestling and tonight its time to get some cowboy hats!

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Re: Attendance Legends Field vs Trop
I don't know about moving the games to Tampa or Hillsborough. I live in Tampa and I enjoy going to the Trop whenever I can get away.

It's rather nice that I can treat my wife to a day on the Pier, dinner @ Baywalk and then a baseball game. The location is just fine and over the years I have grown to love the surrounding areas to the point I tried briefly to buy a home in the area.

Last time I check Roger Clemens drew a decent showing when he last pitched at the Trop.

I don't think it's a fair estimate to judge Clemens game against the Rays. Clemens is a future hall of famer, and arguably one of the best of the modern era of baseball.

Hey, I was at the game and I thought 13,000 was a honestest quote. The fans will come. How many times beside tonight have the Tampa Yankees come close to matching the Trop in attendance?
Let's put it this way; how many times do you see the Tampa Yankees score in the papers? Or how many times do you see the Tampa Yankees on the local news.

The Bucs and Bolts draw well because the WIN. Remember when the bolts we perennial losers? You could get tickets to the game on the ground. When the Bolts made their playoff run in 1996, they sold out the Thunderdome (later to be known as the Trop.)

If we move the Rays from the Trop I think we would be losing a bit of connection with the area. The Tampa Bay area has a lot more to offer then just Tampa. I guarantee you, the Rays make it to the playoffs they would sell out quicker then you can say "band wagon."

Go Rays!

Yankees make Tampa Bay a MINOR LEAGUE town, Devil Rays make Tampa Bay a MAJOR LEAGUE town!

by thebaddancingraysfan on May 19, 2007 5:22 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Hillsborough County will not be getting a stadium
For several reasons, including......
  1. They are already paying off large construction costs with respect to the Ice Palace and Raymond James Stadium, the latter of which was very controversial.
  2. There is still 20 years left on Tropicana Field's lease. There is no way that the City of St. Petersburg and Pinellas County will void that lease if the Rays move to Hillsborough County. And it would be next to impossible for the Rays to incur all the debt that would result from having to pay off the rest of the debt on the lease.
  3. While a location in Hillsborough County at the Fairgrounds location would provide reasonable 100 mile access to more people, a lot of that encompasses rural Central Florida land that is not in the Tampa Bay market. You are essentially making your ballpark, with traffic time included, equidistant between rural Polk County and heavily urbanized Pinellas County, and that won't fly.
  4. Further, the traffic situation in Hillsborough County is just far worse. Even with recent improvements along I-4 (that will inevitably be "improving" for the next 50 years), traffic still encounters major snarls in the Ybor, Downtown, and Memorial Highway areas. And I doubt the infrastructure improvments near Tampa Airport are going to much affect the last snarl up. I-275 in Pinellas County really slows down in only one location, and that is in the corridor between Gandy and Roosevelt.
The only Tampa site I can see working is on the Dale Mabry corridor near where RayJay is, and that is already taken up by another ballpark. I have often grappled with the issue of the new Rays ballpark being built at the Legends Field site. Would the destruction of that disgusting Yankee cesspool compensate for losing my team to another county? Alas, no. A site at that location would be best for Hillsborough, but because of the other factors listed above, that won't happen. You probably aren't getting a stadium in either Downtown, St. Pete or Tampa, because of land costs, parking infrastructure issues, and land availability.

That all said, where would be the best place for a new stadium site? I'm going to echo something that I have heard before over at RaysBB in discussions, as well as with my brother, and I'll say that the perfect site would be at the old Pinellas County landfill near Roosevelt. This would be a good option because...

  1. It's proximity to the Howard Frankland Bridge mitigates the commute from Tampa being a major problem.
  2. Unlike lots of Pinellas County, there is a large quantity of land available.
  3. It is near a major transportation junction at the 275-Roosevelt-118th St. interchange
  4. Pinellas County will give away the land for free
  5. There is a large development going on across the street as well as at the Carilon office park area, which means that there is major corporate dollars and a large residential population within a 10 minute commute. Obviously this would not be a neighborhood ballpark that you could walk to, but  a few pedestrian bridges and the advent of the automobile should circumvent that problem. Think of all the corporations just blocks away. Danka, Jabil Circuit, ValPak, Avaya, Bright House, HSN,  that is a large workforce looking for things to do after work, and that is a lot of corporate $$$ within a very short distance.
The only problem is that the landfill site needs to be cleaned up, something which would cost the Rays or any other developer who wants to go there about $30 million to do. However a ballpark would be the best way to make that money back. Ultimately a structure is going to cost lots of money wherever you build it, but all things considered, I think this would be the best site.  

by Patrick L. Kennedy on May 19, 2007 9:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Attendance Legends Field vs Trop
One problem with you argument Pat. VALPAK has changed to mostly robotics. That is that big, new building off of 275 on the right. Other than that it was right on. The only other place I can see a new stadium would be taking out Al Lang.

Here me out...

You would have to take out Al Lang, The Mahaffey theater and maybe Albert Whitted but it would so be worth it. It would be right on the water in one of the nicest areas in St. Pete. Think of the view!

I know it will never happen because everyone in St. Pete loves Al Lang and they would never gt approval from the community to take out all the other stuff but it would still be nice and not right next to the dump.

The trop is already in the armpit of the city why move it to the toilet?

But as for moving across the bay, that will never happen. The St. Pete Times alone would stop it. They bought the forum in order to get more recognition for St. Pete. They even tried to get the street out side of the Forum renamed.

St. Petersburg is trying to establish an identity, so I just don't see a move ever happening.

by Elgrandeplatano on May 19, 2007 10:44 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Ah
Thanks for that, Elgrade, I didn't know that about Valpak. Still, the money element that the corporation brings to the area stands.

I think you overestimate the power of the St. Pete Times, but obviously we agree that a move to Hillsborough will never happen. I don't think a downtown ballpark is feasable. Albert Whitted and the Mahaffey Theatre aren't going anywhere, considering about $50 million has just been invested in the two of them over the last three years for new facilities.

I think Al Lang is probably toast though, regardless.

by Patrick L. Kennedy on May 19, 2007 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My main point
The NDRO has a long way to go to find the core fans of this market.  I am a Pinellas guy myself and I don't know the real numbers, so who am I to say what is right and what isn't.  There may be a provinicial attitude involved as well as the lease agreement on the Trop that will ensure that the club remains in Pinellas not just for the short term but for the long term.

Those fans that showed up at Legends Field were not merely just Yankee fans or Clemens hacks, but they were baseball fans.  And they showed up in droves to their facility than rather decide to watch the Rays play.

I completely agree about the bandwagon effect, but I think there are other forces in play here.  For me it isn't an issue, but what about the fans that have to drive from New Tampa and Brandon (or so they say) or even Lutz that have to drive past the airport or through 2 downtown areas that don't particularly care for the ride?

The Yankee game was an excuse for fans to go.  All I am saying is that it will be interesting to see what happens in the upcoming months and years ahead with the spark of this new ballpark issue.  Personally, I would love to see the Al Lang site upgraded and turned into a beautiful waterfront park (a la AT & T park in SF).  Its a fight that will take years.  But I am on board!!

Joe

by joedobr on May 20, 2007 10:14 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

If a stadium were located in Hillsborough County
At the Fairgrounds or in Downtown Tampa, the difference in drive between those locations and the Toytown dump site in Pinellas would be negligible. Those people are already so far out that any non-Dale Mabry site is inconvenient.

by Patrick L. Kennedy on May 20, 2007 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Attendance Legends Field vs Trop
The trip can be said for any argument. You can say that the people from Lutz are not going to come to a Rays game, well I know people that won't make the trip to the fairgrounds for a Rays game.

Do you really think with the product that the Rays have now that they are going to draw fans to the game from Orlando even if the stadium is at the fairgrounds? I am a huge Rays fan since the beginning and I can honestly tell you I wouldn't.

Sternberg is trying get the Rays watched on a bigger market which is fine, but he is not going to see any results untill he puts a better product on the field. That alone will expand the market because more people in the tri county area would care.

by Elgrandeplatano on May 21, 2007 9:12 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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