Poor Shields

by jquigley on May 20, 2007 4:08 PM EDT

How many times does he have to watch the Camp/Stokes contingent blow his games? This is disgusting!!
How can Maddon allow these guys to let him (and the team and the fans)down time after time after time?
Coming into this game, Stokes' opponents were batting .356 against him, and had homered 5 times in 19 innings.
Camps opponents were batting .407 AND he'd allowed 6 walks in 14 innings.
They suck. Please stop this madness!

This post was written by a member of the DRaysBay community and does not necessarily express the views or opinions of DRaysBay staff.

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Stokes, yes

Stokes should never be used in any situation in which the Rays are down or up by five runs or less.

Camp did what he was supposed to do. He got ground balls. One was a little cue shot down the right field line, and the other was screwed up by Wigginton. Wigginton was culpable for that play. That should have been a double play at least, triple play with a competent second baseman. But he is so awful, he couldn't even get one.

That inning was not Camp's fault.

by Patrick L. Kennedy on May 20, 2007 6:43 PM EDT reply actions

Re: Stokes, yes

Stokes sucks. Camp may not have been 100% of the cause today, but he has enough times in the past. The ball may have been hit on the ground, but at least one was hit pretty hard.

Wigginton is a terrible fielder, especially as a middle infielder. And he doesn't have the bat to play at the corners.

Once Again, as long as we depend on players who are inadequate at their positions to win us ballgames, we will be fighting to escape last place as a sort of moral victory.

by RayFanNY on May 20, 2007 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions

Camp

Camp is what he is. An effective middle relief pitcher. He got ground balls, as he was supposed to. If Wigginton were competent, the inning might have ended right there. He was decent last year, and I believe that he will be similarly effective this year over the full season.

by Patrick L. Kennedy on May 21, 2007 4:38 AM EDT up reply actions

Re: Stokes, yes

I am tired of hearing Camp is doing what he is supposed to do by gettin ground balls. Pitchers are supposed to get outs.

Camp relies on the team to much to get his outs.

HE JUST SUCKS.....SNED HIM TO MONTGOMERY!!!

by Elgrandeplatano on May 21, 2007 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions

Yes

And pitchers also have to rely on their defense to do well on balls in play. It just so happens that Camp's defense let him down. And no, he doesn't rely on the team too much to get his outs, as I said earlier, he had good strikeout and walk rates last year, as well as a good groundball rate. If Wigginton were competent, two lead runners in scoring position would have been out, and the team possibly could have turned a triple play. Your hatred of Camp simply isn't substantiated by fact.

by Patrick L. Kennedy on May 21, 2007 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Yes

Patrick, I don't understand your defense of Camp. I agree, we do not have the best infield defense behind him. But c'mon... What has he ever done during his MLB career to suggest he is anything other than mediocre at best?
And this year, he hasn't even been that.

Demon Deacons

by jquigley on May 22, 2007 8:18 AM EDT up reply actions

Re: Yes

How does he not rely on his defense to much? DOes Kazmir go out there and throw the ball every time to get a ground ball? No he tries to strike people out and get ground balls when he needs to.

You don't have to worry about infield defense if you get the batter out in the box.

by Elgrandeplatano on May 22, 2007 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions

Camp

For an overused middle relief pitcher, he was entirely decent last year, and I think he would do okay in a full season's sample size this year. He posted good strikeout, walk, and groundball rates last year. He is a serviceable middle reliever, however in this bullpen his role has been upgraded. That is the problem.

Mediocre is an improvement over most of our bullpen.

by Patrick L. Kennedy on May 22, 2007 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions

Re: Camp

I'll back patrick here. Camp's being overused and misused because we just don't have many options. Under normal circumstances he comes in with runners on and we need a double play.

But, with Salas gone, and Stokes not finishing, he's being pushed into a setup like role. Be pissed that they don't have enough options, but don't take it out on Camp whose at least producing groundballs that should be outs.

by JWallace on May 22, 2007 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Camp

I will reluctantly yield to Patrick on this one...for now. Yes, Camp put up decent enough peripherals last season. A mediocre pitcher at best, but not a disaster to have in your bullpen.

This season his peripherals have taken a big step back. Walks are up. Strikeouts are down. Too small a sample size? Or signs that he is crashing?

I'm willing to extend Camp some rope for the next 30 days. Glover on the other hand has to go now.

by RayFanNY on May 23, 2007 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Camp

I hate you all

by Elgrandeplatano on May 24, 2007 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions

Re: Poor Shields

Out of curiosity, who would you recommend? Salas is unavailable at the moment. It's time to face it - all of our relievers, other than Reyes, are not good enough to play in the major leagues. Maybe some of them will competent someday (Stokes and Lugo have some 'stuff') but not today. It's so sad that we have only 2 MLB starters and one reliever. That's pathetic. I'm all about growing the team through the minor league system but this is an embarassment. You have to have at least average talent to hold places for your upcoming young talent. I used to blame Madden for sending in Stokes, but the more I think about it, what's he supposed to do? THEY ALL SUCK! His only other option is to send Shields out there for the 8th with 103 pitches. Questionable call, but I don't think you can risk your starter's health just because management has failed to bring in any relief help. Madden will continue to send out the pitchers he has. It's just unfair.

by stpetelawyer on May 20, 2007 7:28 PM EDT reply actions

Re: Poor Shields

Orvella has some stuff...

by R.J. Anderson on May 20, 2007 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions

I agree

The Rays need to ease in pitchers who might represent key parts of their future by getting them PT in key situations. Pitching Orvella in blowouts accomplishes nothing. He is a top relief prospect, and he needs to be used in a role that he has a chance of occupying for the ballclub many years into the future.

Orvella was actually warming up through parts of the eighth and ninth innings, so it wasn't like he was unavailable.

by Patrick L. Kennedy on May 20, 2007 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Poor Shields

I agree and was SHOCKED that the Rays didn't put him in.

Stokes has potential but so does Robert Downy Jr. when it comes to being sober. Just like the ladder, Stokes has spots of greatest but keeps on getting stuck in a rut.

Just out of curiosity, I wonder what Shields thinks when he looks around the locker room. Does anyone walk up to him and say "my bad?"

Yankees make Tampa Bay a MINOR LEAGUE town, Devil Rays make Tampa Bay a MAJOR LEAGUE town!

by thebaddancingraysfan on May 20, 2007 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Poor Shields

You can pitch ANYBODY at ANYTIME with this team. We aren't fighting for the AL East Crown. There is no pressure. If you don't begin to ease guys in now, when exactly do you try?

by RayFanNY on May 20, 2007 9:19 PM EDT reply actions

Re: Poor Shields

So a sucessful season to you would be 71 wins?

Yankees make Tampa Bay a MINOR LEAGUE town, Devil Rays make Tampa Bay a MAJOR LEAGUE town!

by thebaddancingraysfan on May 20, 2007 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Poor Shields

I'm not exactly sure how you came to that conclusion.

What I am saying is, people here are making excuses that our young pitchers need to be "eased in" during "non-pressure situations." Since we are in last place, I don't see how any game we play could be considered "high pressure." Put the guys in, and see what they can do. If not now, when?

by RayFanNY on May 22, 2007 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions

Re: Poor Shields

it's not even June and you are saying put up the white flag. All I know is try to put yourself in the best position to win the games. SURPRISE people, break stereotypes that people have of the franchise. Just because the last 10 years have been associated with losing, doesn't mean this year will be another "oh well, let's see what we have year." That's the got of thinking gets outsiders calling this franchise a AAAA team.

All I say if fight. So we are in last place now. Why not try to get into first place. Maddon shouldn't have pregame speech that sounds like "Hey, we are in last place and we are going to start a AA pitcher because, it's not like we are in first! So go out there and... just don't suck!"

Come on man. I get what you are saying, but IMO, I don't like it. I am not saying it's right nor wrong I just think until we are out of the division hunt (mathematically) or wild card we should still gun for it. It's my first belief that's what the bay area deserves is a winner.

Yankees make Tampa Bay a MINOR LEAGUE town, Devil Rays make Tampa Bay a MAJOR LEAGUE town!

by thebaddancingraysfan on May 22, 2007 3:07 AM EDT up reply actions

Re: Poor Shields

I still don't know where you are coming up with your takes, but I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth. I'll just let you continue, since you like to make it up as you go along anyhow.

by RayFanNY on May 23, 2007 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Poor Shields

I can't make this stuff up...

Yankees make Tampa Bay a MINOR LEAGUE town, Devil Rays make Tampa Bay a MAJOR LEAGUE town!

by thebaddancingraysfan on May 23, 2007 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Poor Shields

Did anyone think Crawford should have been running in the bottom of the 9th after Greg Norton drew a walk with 1 out??? Maddon needs to wake up!! I don't care if it's c.c.'s day off or not. You have a guy on first who just had knee surgery running bottom 9th & down 1 run. Are you kidding??
Crawford disrupts pitching and defense when he's on the basepaths. I'm starting to lose it with Maddon. Am I alone on this???

ccfan

by ccfan on May 21, 2007 7:02 AM EDT reply actions