Toby Hall/St. Petersburg Times

by joedobr on Jan 23, 2008 7:29 PM EST Comment 18 comments

First off, I know what everyone must be thinking, Joe is off his rocker again. Not true. Please keep the following in mind:

http://www.sptimes.com/2006/12/14/Rays/Rays__Iwamura_confide.shtml

Ex-Rays catcher Toby Hall, nontendered by the Dodgers, said several teams called and he expected better options (Phillies? White Sox? Yankees?) than a minor-league contract the Rays might offer. "That was funny," Hall said. "I guess it would be a minor-league contract because they're a minor-league team."

This comment and quote came from December 14, 2006. Now it is the end of January 2008. Today, Toby Hall addressed this very comment and the firestorm that came from this comment and shed some light on how this came to be. Apparently, Marc Topkin originally went to the Rays and according to Toby Hall, asked in a joking manner was Hall worth a "minor league" contract. Topkin got whoever his "source" is got to say it in a jokingly, off the cuff manner and then relayed that comment back to Hall.

The point of this is like everything in life, you can't always believe what you read. Over this winter, I have noticed a very negative angry change in Marc Topkin for reasons I do not know. He has literally tried to impose himself, or lack of a better word, as the pen of this club. His comments about Boof Bonser and Darin Erstad were wrong and he didn't have the fortitude to back up or corroborate the information in a legitimate, professional or even ethical manner.

What anyone thinks of Toby Hall is their business. I know he spent 6 years here, but was exceptionally complimentary of both the club and the players themselves. I remember the furor that came from these comments plus the club pulling away from his charity event last year, and now this story as given by Hall today on "Hot Lunch with JP" puts everything in a different perspective. I for one am tired of the arrogance of Marc Topkin. For over 20 years, I have respected the man's work, but over the past 18 months, even longer, he has grown to be very lazy and dismissive. All of the major player signings were first reported by NATIONAL writers and not LOCAL (with the exception of this site), and DRB is not intended to be a news breaking site.

I point this out as an added reason why everyone needs to be critical at times and its ok to be critical in seeking the truth. There is always 2 sides to a story, and not always everything is crystal clear. We can all disagree, and that is healthy. What happened with Toby was unfortunate, but I found it fascinating to hear the rationale behind this quote and the context and it makes more sense to me now.

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Re: Toby Hall/St. Petersburg Times

This is not to say we do NOT have people who follow this team passionately that are local in nature. We most certainly do. However, as a fan and a consumer, we deserve more. And what has transpired over this past offseason involving the Times especially has been nothing short of egregious and/or outright atrocious. There is a lack of detail and definition in their work. I am not saying its not ok to be opinionated at times, you bet it is, but now I question the basis of those opinions and who does those opinions serve. If I knew those answers, I may be able to live with it. I get the sense its personal for Marc especially, because he feels he has to be right and can't accept being wrong. Well, what's so hard about crediting sources and accepting the fact that its ok to acknowledge other reputable sources? Does Marc Topkin stand in good graces with the BBWAA? These questions shouldn't be asked, but I wonder where Marc is coming from.

Joe

by joedobr on Jan 23, 2008 7:46 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Toby Hall/St. Petersburg Times

Great diary Joe, another reason your one of the best users on this site.

General Manager Manifesto Matt Bishoff

by Matt Bishoff on Jan 23, 2008 8:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Toby Hall/St. Petersburg Times

Thank you, Matt, it means a lot to me, seriously. I pick my spots:) This has been festering for a while and what happened today, plus the general tone that has gone on, for me it just begs the question. And who loses in the end? It shouldn't be DRB doing the paper's jobs (although it is oustanding). It makes you wonder what is going on over there what are they thinking?

Joe

by joedobr on Jan 23, 2008 9:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Toby Hall/St. Petersburg Times

This is what I alluded to earlier. It's unfortunate if true, although it didn't affect Toby's job as much as his standing with the fans who cared here. That being said Toby was still pretty careless to make a jab without knowing the context of the exec's statement.

Both sides are probably at fault here, again assuming it's true.

by R.J. Anderson on Jan 23, 2008 7:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Toby Hall/St. Petersburg Times

Both sides are indeed at fault, but it also makes sense of what was an odd situation.

Unlike Huff, everything I had heard of Toby Hall up to that point in time was positive in terms of his demeanor towards the club, even in the darkest of days, as well as his support and respect for the community. It just didn't make sense on many levels for him to take a swipe at the club like that.

Who knows.

by RATW on Jan 23, 2008 8:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Indeed, in fact

I can remember Patrick defending Toby by citing his past actions. If this is proven true or - perhaps more likely - not proven false, my attitude towards Hall would certainly change.

by R.J. Anderson on Jan 23, 2008 8:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Toby Hall/St. Petersburg Times

That is a great point and a reason why I am asking when Hall is trying to stump for his charity and simply trying to do good, what good would it serve Topkin to make Toby Hall look bad? It certainly raises a very odd question about the writer, and as what I was noticing in this offseason a very negative change in Marc that is stupefying and bizarre? Prior to the 2005-2006 seasons, I never heard anything "bad" about Hall from the front. I am sad it didn't work, but I don't begrudge Hall. The circumstances of these comments simply raise new questions about the consummate nature of what is supposed to be the senior beat/baseball writer in this community?! Makes no sense to me.

Joe

by joedobr on Jan 23, 2008 9:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Toby Hall/St. Petersburg Times

I don't mind Toby Hall... he tossed me a ball from the dugout one game and was like "Here you go kid.."
Never was an asshole to fans and always signed for me and others.

by Flabull on Jan 23, 2008 8:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Toby Hall/St. Petersburg Times

Yeah, Toby never bothered me. It was dissapointing he never equaled the press clippings. from what i know in my time dealing with times,Topkin was never approachable and I don't care for Encina after he started the Kazmir is on block stuff to make a name for himself.

by David Bloom on Jan 23, 2008 8:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Toby Hall/St. Petersburg Times

Hello all, I've been a reader for a while, love the site. I decided to join up for this post, because the Times has been enormously irking me this entire offseason. To read/hear that Topkin instigated the actions to tarnish what was a good community legacy in Hall's was the tipping point. What has been most cumbersome is I have yet to see one of the columnists, Romano or Shelton, positively spin the new stadium. Even if they are against the idea, giving the community the benefit of seeing what pro-changes could occur with it. Coincidentally, a majority of the "Your Turn" letters are anti-stadium anti-Rays management letters. Shame on the Sports editor for irresponsible journalism....you (the Times) can't continually complain of the lack of both an amicable community relationship and a winning team and not take some initiative as the community's informant to get them off the ground...I really have been appalled by the Times' (mis)handling of the Rays this offseason.

by PJSmith7 on Jan 23, 2008 10:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Toby Hall/St. Petersburg Times

An interesting post in that nearly every criticism I have read of the Times is that they are in bed with the Rays and use the paper as a propoganda tool for the team. I disagree with that assessment, but it is interesting that your view, which I also think is incorrect, seems diametrically opposite. Gives one pause.

by bobr on Jan 23, 2008 10:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Toby Hall/St. Petersburg Times

My intention was to point out that the coverage has decidedly changed this offseason. I have been a big fan of the Times coverage of the Rays until said point. A quick glance at any of the articles on this page:

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/webspecials07/special_reports/new-ballpark/

reveals that they've taken a negative, at best cool approach on the stadium.

by PJSmith7 on Jan 23, 2008 11:23 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Toby Hall/St. Petersburg Times

They clearly have editorialized the issue. Heck, I admit, its affected my own thinking at times on it. I got to take a step back and think about it. I am not a tree hugger, but again, what is the function of the newspaper?

Yes, it has changed, I agree PJ. Don't know how long you have lived here, but I try to read other cities coverages of their respective clubs and I will decidedly say we don't get enough coverage, let alone "fair" coverage.

Yes, I can be critical, no doubt. I won't say that I won't criticize. Yes stability and a plan are key concepts, but I think the Topkin situation has gotten out of hand.

Joe

by joedobr on Jan 23, 2008 11:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Toby Hall/St. Petersburg Times

Somewhat ironic in that both Topkin's and Shelton's columns today are very positive, possibly overenthusiastic, about the team and its management. As for the stadium, I have read all the articles, most of which do not appear on the sports pages, and think they are reasonably balanced with perhaps a bit more tilt towards the opposition, but not significantly so.

In any case, the paper is not supposed to be a booster for the team. It has every right, in fact it has an obligation, in its opinion pieces to ask tough questions and issue warnings if their opinion is that the community will not benefit. I consider myself a devoted Rays' fan, and in my heart want the new stadium, but I have reservations still and do not consider myself a traitor when I express them.

by bobr on Jan 24, 2008 7:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

I think that Aaron Sharockman has done a great job covering the stadium situation. The articles have been not only numerous, but also very informative. They have also been featured prominently in the newspaper. I commend the Times for doing a great job informing the citizenry of this process. The Rays coverage this off-season is a different matter and, in large part, a different department.

by Patrick L. Kennedy on Jan 25, 2008 7:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Toby Hall/St. Petersburg Times

Just as it was probably wrong to jump to conclusions about Toby Hall, I'd would say it is equally wrong to jump to conclusions about Topkin. This whole thing could simply be one big misunderstanding for all we know.

by RATW on Jan 23, 2008 11:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Don't think so

One doesn't go with the other...There is a trail of crumbs RATW that leads straight to Topkin, at least in my opinion. Yes, there are two sides, but Topkin's credibility shouldn't be questioned, and here I am right now down right questioning it. If you go into the 1470 site and play back Hour 2 about midpoint, he will explain he felt he was jilted by Topkin. And it isn't the first time.

Joe

by joedobr on Jan 23, 2008 11:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Additional point

Topkin earlier this year stirred it up or at least tried to between Rocco and Carl in comparisons about the contract that Rocco signed. It was another misconception/out of context scenario that painted both players unfairly and took a deeper look to really see that situation out.

Joe

by joedobr on Jan 23, 2008 11:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs