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Around SBN: Jim Irsay: We Can Make It Work With Peyton Manning

Mis-management

I am, like everybody else here, really pleased with the result of tonight's game.

However, I was very disappointed with the management of Joe Maddon. Anyone who knew anything about Kaz knew that he just wasn't "on" tonight, his fastball was flat, he had no command, he could not induce a ground ball to save his life, and he couldn't throw any secondary pitch for strikes. His pitch count was already obscenely high to start the 5th inning and we had two very viable long relief options in the pen, one of which is a #1 pick hard throwing premier lefty who none of the sox had really seen before. Yes, I am talking about Price. With the lead we had, why not give Price a shot for 1-2 innings? He would not have done worse than Kaz, and the pressure would not be too high as he was entering a clean, fresh inning with a 2-run lead. Granted, he has no real MLB experience (let alone playoff experience) but very few of our pitchers have playoff experience anyway. Imagine if we put in Price for 2 innings, then Bradford/Miller combo for 1, then Wheeler to set up, and Balfour to close. I think we would have faired pretty well. Where am I wrong here?

This post was written by a member of the DRaysBay community and does not necessarily express the views or opinions of DRaysBay staff.

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I was asking for Price too

I just thought it was the wrong spot to bring in the Aussie. Kaz really is concerning to me. I can see a changing of the guard from Kaz to Price as our ace lefty next year.

by BOHICA_ALEast on Oct 12, 2008 4:54 AM EDT reply actions  

I can see Kazmir fixing his mechanics in the off season.

He could be back to his May form if he does that. Don’t think he’ll just take a backseat to Price just like that.

by Cory Alexander on Oct 12, 2008 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

I am all for it.

I would love to see Price start a game against Boston. I have also already moved Price to the Top lefty roll on the team. Price is more than special.

by John 63 on Oct 12, 2008 7:38 AM EDT reply actions  

jp howell is the top lefty right now

david price is going to be better than him, but right now jp howell is my #1 option out of the pen for the lefties

YOUR 2008 AL EAST DIVISION CHAMPIONS.... THE TAMPA BAY RAYS!!!

by RaysOfHope on Oct 12, 2008 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bay AB in the 8th

If you just want to walk Bay and not pitch to him, why not just throw the four fingers up and give him the intentional pass?! Dave Wills crucified Maddon and/or Navi for poor game management in that spot? Was he trying to set Bay up?

Joe

by joedobr on Oct 12, 2008 9:20 AM EDT reply actions  

1st time all year

Maddon has mismanaged the bullpen. Kaz put him in a tough spot, but I agree he should of brought Price in for an inning or two. Thank God for Wheelers masterful performance

by Sveet on Oct 12, 2008 1:03 PM EDT reply actions  

Tough Crowd

Kazmir gave up 2 runs in the 1st inning against the White Sox then settled down nicely and pitched into the 6th inning. He only gave up the Pedroia homer in innings 2-4 last night. I do not think Maddon was asking to much for him to make it through the 5th. Heck, Francona let Beckett give up 7 runs.

One smart move that no one has mentioned was having Perez and Zobrist run on Bartlett’s grounder to third in the 11th. If the runners are not going Perez is forced at 3rd or possibly it is a DP ball.

by MetsRaysFan on Oct 12, 2008 1:44 PM EDT reply actions  

If it worked out you'd all be saying what a genius Maddon is.

Get off the guy’s back. Maddon’s doing a hell of a job. Sometimes things just don’t work out.

by floridaroar on Oct 12, 2008 3:44 PM EDT reply actions  

Perhaps he should have relieved Kazmir earlier,

but Maddon is on record as saying he wants Scott to work his way out of trouble and will try to stay with him. The White Sox game was an example of that. I do not think he is inflexible on that matter, but his tendency will be to leave him in a bit longer than many fans would like, and so far he has been right more often than not. That is not mismanagement; it is approach, and one that has been successful, so that when it does not work, it is simply a case of a reasonable tactic backfiring.

As for Price, he is the next to last man in the bullpen, or possibly a situational lefty. The two primary relievers are Balfour and Howell, and Maddon is absolutely correct to use them in the diciest situations. At that point, he needed to get the game under control, and regardless of the inning, that meant using his best pitchers to do the job. Again, the fact that Balfour was ineffective has no bearing on whether it was the right move. He was there to do what he had been doing all season-stop a team on a roll. It is to Maddon’s credit that he is not bound by pre-formed “inning-roles” but uses relievers as called for by the situation.

by bobr on Oct 13, 2008 5:36 AM EDT reply actions  

agree with bobr,

some of the love for price around here has seriously inflated many people’s expectations. this man is a rookie, untested, inexperienced, and really doesn’t look all that solid as of yet. he looks nervous and jittery, and that’s ok. he’s a rookie, been here a month, he’s supposed to be. and some people want to throw him out in boston to go long relief and hold a lead in a game of momentum swings? i’m sorry, but i don’t see him succeeding at that, i mean he looked nervous when he came out in the last inning. maddon made the right move, no doubt in my mind.

by davidsmarch on Oct 13, 2008 9:57 AM EDT reply actions  

Are we watching the same guy?

Besides walking a guy last outing on some close nibblers he has looked downright filthy. First pitch he threw the other night was 95 and boring in on a lefty. I immediately sported wood. Sure the guy is going to make some mistakes, but I haven’t seen it yet.

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 13, 2008 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Price may indeed be ready

but that is not the point. Right now, the two pitchers Maddon trust the most in critical situations are Howell and Balfour, and rightly so as they have been nearly perfect in those cases. It would make little sense suddenly to change horses now, and the situation in the 5th was precisely the sort where he needed his most reliable relievers, not an untested one no matter how promising.

I would not be surprised to see Price get more action as the series progresses and even be used in increasingly tight situations, but not all at once. As is, he was brought in in a tight situation and was probably available should the game have gone longer, but at that point there were no other options (other than Jackson).

In any case I think there are essentially two ways to consider a manager’s decisions. The first is to categorically state that one is wrong and then propose the right one. The other is to ask why might the manager have done what he did and then ask whether there is legitimate rationale behind it. In my view, the only proper approach is the second and particularly in the case of a manager who has demonstrated intelligence, creativity and thoughtfulness in the past. One may then propose alternatives and even support them but maintain respect for the one the manager made. It is entirely possible to prefer one option while recognizing that another one is defensible as well.

by bobr on Oct 13, 2008 2:08 PM EDT reply actions  

well said Bob

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 13, 2008 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was practically screaming at the TV

For Maddon to pull Kazmir much earlier than he did and to put Price or Jackson in. That’s what they’re there for – if the starter is struggling, you have another starter who can put in 5 innings. Kaz looked WAY off on Saturday.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Oct 13, 2008 3:14 PM EDT reply actions  

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