The Velociraptor Hatched

David Price wasn't planning on waiting to be a god amongst men

He was going to be one right away

Matt Garza is in the middle of having his 3rd testicle descend. He will be ready in time to win tonight though.

by joeybw on Oct 20, 2008 12:35 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs

REC'D

THIS MAN SHOULD GET THE PILL IN THE 9TH THE REST OF THE WAY

Rays 2009 Slogan: "Come back with your shield or on it"

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Oct 20, 2008 7:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Velociraptor Jesus is greater than you

He will kill to atone for your sins.

Lay off the stadium, Iwamura

by Orlando Rays on Oct 20, 2008 12:36 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Are their Furry Velociraptors?

www.citadel-insurance.com

by SeanDubbs on Oct 20, 2008 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Technically anything considered a non-human anthropomorphic animal is considered a Furry.

Lay off the stadium, Iwamura

by Orlando Rays on Oct 20, 2008 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I learned something today.

Thanks!

www.citadel-insurance.com

by SeanDubbs on Oct 20, 2008 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What....what?

by R.J. Anderson on Oct 20, 2008 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Congrats to the Rays.

by Gehoff on Oct 20, 2008 12:41 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Congrats guys...

You were the only team I liked after we got eliminated
Go the pride of Western Sydney! (Like there is much competition)

by Braun Holio on Oct 20, 2008 12:51 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Oh, and

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Oct 20, 2008 12:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Congrats

Great game, great series, great year. Go Rays.

by slcgiant on Oct 20, 2008 12:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

http://shop.mlb.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3318239&cp=1452368.1452911.1502576

by walkoffwalk on Oct 20, 2008 1:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I need to buy this.

Yesterday's Pants
A blog-thingy about the Mariners and stuff.

by BrettJMiller on Oct 20, 2008 4:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I had mine in my backpack the entire game....

then whipped it out after the final out.

Top Josh Paul Pornos- Big Navi Stroking, 2pitchers1cup, BJ to the Balls, Riggans Your Thingans

BELIEVE in 08!

by SRQman on Oct 20, 2008 5:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

nice!

by walkoffwalk on Oct 20, 2008 7:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jeez I didn't even notice til now

Joe Maddon is going to manage the ASG!

Matt Garza is in the middle of having his 3rd testicle descend. He will be ready in time to win tonight though.

by joeybw on Oct 20, 2008 1:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

oh shit.

by walkoffwalk on Oct 20, 2008 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

First things first.

Joe Maddon is going to manage in the World Series.

www.citadel-insurance.com

by SeanDubbs on Oct 20, 2008 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I cried in my hands.

There is no word to describe the happiness. Brett Myers and the Phillies…. boom, outta here. Go Rays.

Cannons... fire them.

www.BucEm.com - SBNation's home for discussion of all things regarding the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

by Craig T on Oct 20, 2008 1:12 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

by walkoffwalk on Oct 20, 2008 1:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Nice...

by lailaihei on Oct 20, 2008 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

awesome

ok percival likability restored. bonus points for strongly resembling jeff bridges as he appears in iron man

by daveh33 on Oct 20, 2008 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

always wondered why this said Avery and not Maddux

Rays 2009 Slogan: "Come back with your shield or on it"

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Oct 20, 2008 7:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maddux wasn't one of the original three.

In 1991 those were the big three along with veteran Charlie Leibrandt.

www.citadel-insurance.com

by SeanDubbs on Oct 20, 2008 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah.

Even though if we’re talking “dynasty time”, there needs to be a shirt with Maddux-Glavine-Smoltz.

Carlos and Victor Zambrano have exactly the same number of career postseason wins. Who would have thought?

by Blicks on Oct 20, 2008 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And the true "dynasty" shirt might be a good idea.

Carlos and Victor Zambrano have exactly the same number of career postseason wins. Who would have thought?

by Blicks on Oct 20, 2008 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Un-fucking-believable!!!!

The Trop was amazing…the upper deck was shaking from people jumping after the final out. And yes, I am man enough to admit that I teared up watching the players celebrate.

David Price, thank you for being sent to Earth by God to free us from….well…Dan Wheeler.

Go Rays!!!! Sorry Philly, you will be our bitches once again!

by steve-o1285 on Oct 20, 2008 1:18 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Just got home from the game

\/This is me\/

First person to get a AL champs tee…thrown out by the players. I love my life.

by staplemaniac on Oct 20, 2008 1:18 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs

awesome

by walkoffwalk on Oct 20, 2008 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Amazing

This was amazing! epic series, GO RAYS!!!

"I'd hate to leave right when the getting is good." -CC

by Matt Bishoff on Oct 20, 2008 1:19 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

MAKES GETTING TOSSED FROM FENWAY EPIC INSTEAD OF REGRETFUL!!!

by plasticman on Oct 20, 2008 1:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Thought it was good that Gross came in for defense late in the game. We are going to need him and it's good that he knows Maddon still has confidence in him.

by walkoffwalk on Oct 20, 2008 1:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

From a Die Hard Red Sox fan

Consider my hat tipped

My Red Sox fought hard, but in the end… the Rays were a better team

People, including me, have been underestimating the Rays all year.

Enjoy the World Series folks…
It’s a fun experience.

by SullyBaseball on Oct 20, 2008 1:47 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

thank you! Best of luck next year!

"I tell you what? It doesn't suck!" - Jonny Gomes

by thebaddancingraysfan on Oct 20, 2008 1:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I acrually cried after the win

the Boston sucks chant after the game was fun

9=8

by raysbball on Oct 20, 2008 1:48 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I just got back from the game! How about those rays?

The Rays didn’t:
Suck for yet another year!
Didn’t Fade after an impressive Spring Training.
Didn’t fall flat after losing Garza, Kazmir, and Cliff Floyd to start the season!
Didn’t Fade after they got first place from the Red Sox.
Didn’t Fade after playing the Angels and Cubs at home.
Didn’t fade after June.
Didn’t Fade after the All-Star break.
Didn’t Fade after the Dreading Dead-line.
Didn’t Fade after August.
Didn’t Fade after September.
Didn’t Fade in the first round to the Chicago White Sox.
Didn’t fade after the playing the Boston Red Sox in 7 games in ALCS.

What the Rays did do:
MAKE IT TO THE WORLD SERIES!

"I tell you what? It doesn't suck!" - Jonny Gomes

by thebaddancingraysfan on Oct 20, 2008 1:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

that says it all

every time they were SUPPOSED to flop, they didn’t

What can I say?
This Sox fan knows it is YOUR year

by SullyBaseball on Oct 20, 2008 2:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

as much as i love BOSSMAN

GARZA! really deserves to hoist that plaque, incredible performances, twice…. and yet, this game was easily losable, until the man named Price stepped in.

we owe him so much, so much. so much i love, i love. oh my i love him

by daveh33 on Oct 20, 2008 1:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Getting to see this in person was amazing. There are no words. Go Rays!!

Tools Whore

Sign Bonds!

by Tyler on Oct 20, 2008 2:12 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

damn they have to sign matt garza to an extension this offseason

also david price made me a very happy man and dan wheeler almost made me shit myself

the red sox had a 9 game elimination win streak, but matt garza was too busy rocking out to tupac to notice

by RaysOfHope on Oct 20, 2008 2:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

We have him under control until 2013

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 20, 2008 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

this!

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Oct 20, 2008 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And Shields and Price until 2014

and scads of arms that haven’t even started their clocks yet. I had to laugh at one of the a-holes last night that said something to the effect of our window is closing after this year.

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 20, 2008 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

trade him for Prince Fielder?

Rays 2009 Slogan: "Come back with your shield or on it"

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Oct 20, 2008 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

and Beej for Dontrelle

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 20, 2008 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

are you saying this would be a terrible trade? Price is 3 yrs away from FA I think?

Rays 2009 Slogan: "Come back with your shield or on it"

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Oct 20, 2008 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Prince

Rays 2009 Slogan: "Come back with your shield or on it"

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Oct 20, 2008 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He's holding out for Pujols.

by RATW on Oct 20, 2008 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Without doing any sort of in depth analysis (aka ignorantly)

I don’t like Prince’s game. We have a similar type of power hitter at first currently. Pena’s teammates actually like him. Prince is only going to get fatter. He has played in the NL. Lastly, David Price is going to be a Man among boys for the next 6 years, I like that. Edwin+ for Prince and I might think about it.

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 20, 2008 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"I don’t like Prince’s game."

Same. ‘You gave up RUNS PITCHER, NOW I FIGHT YOU BLARGH!’

Fielder needs to lose quite a bit of weight. At first, I thought him being built like his father was kinda cool. Now, he’s built kinda like MY father. That isn’t quite as cool.

by kericr on Oct 20, 2008 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was talking about Garza for him. NO WAY would I trade Price for him.

Rays 2009 Slogan: "Come back with your shield or on it"

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Oct 20, 2008 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I certainly wouldn't do this either

Here’s a hypothetical. Sabathia and Sheets leave Milwaukee. Brewers turn around and deal Braun for Edwin, Niemann, Hammel, and Talbot. Would you do it?

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 20, 2008 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, and I would laugh at the Crew for stealing Braun from them.

but chances are they laugh at us for offering that.

He’d never get moved but chances are a deal for him would have to inculde David Price involved for them to consider.

Rays 2009 Slogan: "Come back with your shield or on it"

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Oct 20, 2008 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Like I said, hypothetical

An entire starting pitching staff is a pretty tall order, especially when some of those guys haven’t even started their clocks.

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 20, 2008 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have to say though

a hypothetical 2-3-4 of BJ, Brauny & Evan makes me wet my pants.

Rays 2009 Slogan: "Come back with your shield or on it"

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Oct 20, 2008 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not with piss either

With Pena, Craw, and Navi somewhere else in there.

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 20, 2008 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, makes me cream my pants. Then Beckham a few years behind.

considering both would still be with the squad when he’s ready.

Rays 2009 Slogan: "Come back with your shield or on it"

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Oct 20, 2008 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

both=Evan and Brauny. BJ, maybe not.

Rays 2009 Slogan: "Come back with your shield or on it"

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Oct 20, 2008 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think we need to stop this right now before it starts making too much sense

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 20, 2008 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No way they do it.

by rglass44 on Oct 20, 2008 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Corey Hart though

makes a lot of sense in real life, not the fantasy world we were playing in.

They need pitching in a bad way, assuming they lose CC and Sheets.

Rays 2009 Slogan: "Come back with your shield or on it"

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Oct 20, 2008 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

that's one I've been thinking.

Jackson for Hart straight up.

by rglass44 on Oct 20, 2008 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

maybe its just me

but I think that Edwin’s trade vaule is not that high to get him straight up.

He’s lost his prospect status in the game I feel, and if he’ll ever reach his potential is really doubtful.

Maybe add someone like Talbot or Hammel?

Either way I would think Edwin +1 might get us Hart.

Rays 2009 Slogan: "Come back with your shield or on it"

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Oct 20, 2008 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hart had a down year.

He’s older than Jackson, and he had an OBP of .300. His OPS+ was below league average for a RF.

by rglass44 on Oct 20, 2008 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

sure, although Hart's overrated

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Oct 20, 2008 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i love it

Braun’s exactly what we need. And those pitchers are exactly what we don’t. Losing all four would hurt, but I think the pros outweigh the gains. Braun’s actually a good defender in the outfield and is signed to a nice long-term contract.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Oct 20, 2008 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

There's no way they do that deal.

None. Where does 4 bottom of the rotation arms get them? They have a 24 YO MVP candidate. Braun is an absolute stud, and the conersation would begin and end with Price.

by rglass44 on Oct 20, 2008 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed.

Either Price, Kazmir, or Shields.

Most likely Price though.

Carlos and Victor Zambrano have exactly the same number of career postseason wins. Who would have thought?

by Blicks on Oct 20, 2008 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i agree they don't do it

But given Edwin’s 2008 ERA, he’s probably seen as a #3 and potential #2 by many teams. And Talbot is definitely underrated by many.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Oct 21, 2008 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, but those that value Talbot the same as you will also value E-Jax the same.

Vice versa will also likely hold true.

by rglass44 on Oct 22, 2008 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't do Prince for Garza.

1. Prince is FA in 3 years, represented by Scott Boras. Obviously, he won’t lock up long term, ala Braun/Longo/etc..

2. Yeah, Prince’s clubhouse character is a problem. Comparable to Delmon Young, yes.

3. He’s not a major improvement over Pena. His D leaves much to be desired. As DH replacing Aybar/Floyd, yes though.

Carlos and Victor Zambrano have exactly the same number of career postseason wins. Who would have thought?

by Blicks on Oct 20, 2008 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Where does this cancer BS come from?

One fight with a crappy pitcher who showed his teammates up? Manny Parra likely got what he deserved. Is Garza a cancer?

by rglass44 on Oct 20, 2008 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I might be wrong. I'm not an expert on the Brewers.

Weren’t there other reports/rumors outside of the Prince/Parra skirmish which involved Prince doing generally negative type stuff. ? I might be thinking of someone else though. I probably am, and probably am wrong.

The Prince/Parra fight was media semantics. Really not a big deal. About as significant as a bar fight, and those are pretty commonplace. Garza is not a cancer.

Carlos and Victor Zambrano have exactly the same number of career postseason wins. Who would have thought?

by Blicks on Oct 21, 2008 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I referenced below

about my friend facing him in HS and he basically acted like a spoiled brat. Maybe he grew out of it.

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 21, 2008 12:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was referring more to stuff that I heard was going on in the Brewers clubhouse

Like him being a bitch over contract matters and taking it into the clubhouse, etc.

I honestly don’t know. It’s probably BS and I’m probably wrong.

Carlos and Victor Zambrano have exactly the same number of career postseason wins. Who would have thought?

by Blicks on Oct 21, 2008 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I've heard people say the same about BJ.

Most premiere athletes are jerks when they’re young. Then they mature and quit acting like idiots. I think Fielder is regarded as a leader of the clubhouse these days, but I couldn’t tell you for certain one way or the other.

by rglass44 on Oct 21, 2008 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

he's not even an offensive upgrade over Pena

and he’s way worse in the field. over the next three years, ignoring cost, i’d rather have Pena than Fielder

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Oct 21, 2008 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's not the question, though.

Would you rather have Fielder at DH over the gamut of guys that were out there this year?

by rglass44 on Oct 22, 2008 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Price is 6 years from FA

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 20, 2008 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yep

I fucking up what I was trying to say. Garza for Prince I consider, Price I DO NOT.

From what my friends in Wisconsin say Prince was thought of as a pretty good leader for the Crew, minus that flair up with Manny Para. (only one he’s ever had I’m pretty sure)

Rays 2009 Slogan: "Come back with your shield or on it"

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Oct 20, 2008 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

A friend of mine played against him in HS

He said he was a real arrogant prick. Not running anything out, bitching about strikes, you know bad teammate type stuff. Fielder’s OPS is sick, but he would have to drop some weight and get an attitude adjustment. He basically has the same traits that Delmon has and he is no longer here as well. Incidentally, my buddy also played against Delmon and he said he did the same whiner stuff.

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 20, 2008 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The only real reason

I brought up Prince as a trade target is that there was a rumor of Matt Cain for Prince Fielder….so if that is the cost for him, you have to look into it.

He can mash and he wont ever see the field.

I know rumors are just that, classic exmaple of rumor starting is Ken Rosenthal saying the Rays may offer Brignac, Neimann and Sonny for Peavy.

Rays 2009 Slogan: "Come back with your shield or on it"

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Oct 20, 2008 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have heard that rumor, and that would be a dumbass deal for the Giants.

Especially since the Giants are an NL team, and I see Prince being forced into the DH slot very, very soon.

Carlos and Victor Zambrano have exactly the same number of career postseason wins. Who would have thought?

by Blicks on Oct 20, 2008 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cain and Garza are pretty equal in performance.

I would deal neither for Prince Fielder. Not when you can find free talent who could finish in the high 60’s of wOBA just like Fielder, but probably provide some defensive help.

by R.J. Anderson on Oct 21, 2008 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Prince Fielder is probably spoiled by the fact that his daddy was a big baseball star.

Lay off the stadium, Iwamura

by Orlando Rays on Oct 20, 2008 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

spoiled is the word I was looking for

nice work

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 20, 2008 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fielder is way overrated

Crappy fielder, decent-but-not-great hitter, and a first baseman/DH. Eh.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Oct 20, 2008 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

They have him for five more years.

I don’t really fathom why people want to trade him anyways. He made strides.

by R.J. Anderson on Oct 21, 2008 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It woud be really awesome if Weezey aka Young Money aka Lil' Wayne were to sing the Nat'l Anthem for game 1.

Better than some 14 year old sax player.

Also…

World

Series

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Oct 20, 2008 2:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I fucking love life right now. This is one of the greatest days of my life.

….thank you God….and Jesus…and Velociraptor Jesus…

Certainties in Life: Death, Taxes, and Gabe Gross coming through in the ninth

by JMB on Oct 20, 2008 2:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

/Friedman/Maddon/Hunsiker

by staplemaniac on Oct 20, 2008 2:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If anybody knows how to put Boston hats on the children, please do.

by steve-o1285 on Oct 20, 2008 3:17 AM EDT reply actions 4 recs

I just got home....I have 1000 words to write for class tomorow.......

WHO CARES THE RAYS ARE IN THE WORLD SERIES!

Top Josh Paul Pornos- Big Navi Stroking, 2pitchers1cup, BJ to the Balls, Riggans Your Thingans

BELIEVE in 08!

by SRQman on Oct 20, 2008 3:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Pics either tonight or tomorow after class.

Top Josh Paul Pornos- Big Navi Stroking, 2pitchers1cup, BJ to the Balls, Riggans Your Thingans

BELIEVE in 08!

by SRQman on Oct 20, 2008 3:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Red Sox fan with a suggestion for the Rays

Use Price as the closer
Why not?

Seriously, you’d rather have Wheeler or Balfour?

The Phillies will barely have a scouting report on him and he’d go through their order like a hot knife through butter

Think of K-Rod in 2002 with the Angels
Think Wainwright in 2006 with the Cardinals

by SullyBaseball on Oct 20, 2008 3:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

This.

Top Josh Paul Pornos- Big Navi Stroking, 2pitchers1cup, BJ to the Balls, Riggans Your Thingans

BELIEVE in 08!

by SRQman on Oct 20, 2008 3:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Better idea.

Use Price as the bullpen ace and don’t buy in to that silly closer crap now.

by philkid3 on Oct 20, 2008 3:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Or that.

Just use Price.

Top Josh Paul Pornos- Big Navi Stroking, 2pitchers1cup, BJ to the Balls, Riggans Your Thingans

BELIEVE in 08!

by SRQman on Oct 20, 2008 3:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not saying

I’m not saying use him out of the bullpen for his entire career?

Just for 7 games versus Philadelphia

He’s a potential ace starter… but with Kazmir, Shields, Garza and Sonnenstine throwing well out of the rotation use him in the 9th and start him NEXT season

by SullyBaseball on Oct 20, 2008 3:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know you just meant for the series.

And I’m saying in the series have a bullpen ace, not a closer. Just like the world should be.

by philkid3 on Oct 20, 2008 3:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Srsly

Anyone who gives the Phillys an edge because they have a better closer doesn’t understand how the Rays bullpen works. Also saves are a stupid statistic.

Is that another use of SSS?

by staplemaniac on Oct 20, 2008 3:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Saves are stupid.

Top Josh Paul Pornos- Big Navi Stroking, 2pitchers1cup, BJ to the Balls, Riggans Your Thingans

BELIEVE in 08!

by SRQman on Oct 20, 2008 4:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This.

Carlos and Victor Zambrano have exactly the same number of career postseason wins. Who would have thought?

by Blicks on Oct 21, 2008 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Considering what the Red Sox dealt with for years

I can understand why the suggestion might be made by a Red Sox fan. Fortunately, our Mike Timlin isn’t on the playoff roster.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Oct 20, 2008 6:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

exactly -- i'm guessing the Rays will go this route in 2009, too (sans Price)

I’m guessing Maddon will just play the matchups with the bullpen throughout the WS, using Balfour and Price in the highest-leverage situations. And that’s awesome.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Oct 20, 2008 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Congrats to the Rays

and Joe Maddon

Jis “How to use a bullpen in 5 easy steps” should be out soon

by sternfan1 on Oct 20, 2008 6:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

And oh btw, Price Kd Bay in the 9th

Fucking umps

by sternfan1 on Oct 20, 2008 7:00 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

saw that, he definitely went around

pretty obvious

BOHICA

by Mr. Tonight TB on Oct 20, 2008 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

How's this for top of the rotation?

Kazmir, Garza, Price

by sternfan1 on Oct 20, 2008 7:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I think you have it wrong...but agree mostly. Price is our ace by 2010 at the latest.

Rays 2009 Slogan: "Come back with your shield or on it"

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Oct 20, 2008 8:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I love how maybe as early as next season, Shields could be our FOURTH best

Sonny will be the best #5 in mankind and Wade Davis may get his call up early in the season!

Matt Garza is in the middle of having his 3rd testicle descend. He will be ready in time to win tonight though.

by joeybw on Oct 20, 2008 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Shields!

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Oct 20, 2008 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Trade Kazmir for Shields and you have the right idea.

Make Kazmir a trade or put him 4th in rotation. Keep eJax as closer.

by Sylar on Oct 20, 2008 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

there's a good chance Kaz returns to prior form

this team could have three #1s and two #2s next year

Shields
Kaz
Garza
—-
Price
Sonny

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Oct 20, 2008 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So Fielder is a decent hitter and Sonny is a #2 starter?

by rglass44 on Oct 20, 2008 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Who do you see being of more value in 3 years?

Don’t want to come across as an ass it’s an honest question. My money would be on Sonny as I can see him getting even better as he learns hitter’s tendencies over the years, that’s how Maddux got so good his mind was like a steel trap and never forgot how to get a batter out.

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 20, 2008 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fielder.

Papi was fat and valuable until 32. Mo Vaughn was fat and very valuable until 30. If you can stick him at DH he’ll likely be a very good bat for a while. He had a legit MVP argument at 23 last year. He was a bit down from that this year. Which one was the fluke? His HR/FB rate was pretty high last year, but it’s not crazy to think he won’t split the difference the next 5 years.

by rglass44 on Oct 20, 2008 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And Fielder is a great athlete. Something Vaughn and Papi are not.

Tools Whore

Sign Bonds!

by Tyler on Oct 20, 2008 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

this is very very true

I guess he’s a gym rat. Always in the weight room. He’s not just a tub of lard. And as I said above, all my good friends back home who follow the Crew said he’s viewed as a good leader. I have not heard him carrying his contract satus into the culbhouse.

And I dont know why would have been unhappy with his contract anyways. Its not like Boras would allow him to buy out his arb years and a year or two of FA.

I think Sonny is a 4 at best his whole career.

Rays 2009 Slogan: "Come back with your shield or on it"

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Oct 21, 2008 7:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

he was a #3 this year, so, huh?

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Oct 21, 2008 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kaz, Shields, Garza, Sonny?

If you asked Maddon, pretty sure he’d tell you Sonny was their number 4 guy.

Rays 2009 Slogan: "Come back with your shield or on it"

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Oct 22, 2008 7:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I just read your justifcation below...so I would agree, he's just not a 3 on this team.

Rays 2009 Slogan: "Come back with your shield or on it"

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Oct 22, 2008 7:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Papi is an interesting case

When looking at his numbers with the Twins for the first six years of his MLB career, he looks like a completely different player than with the Red Sox.

His numbers spiked with the Red Sox. Absolutely spiked.

And, Papi is taller than Prince, and weighs much less (according to baseballcube/ESPN).

Carlos and Victor Zambrano have exactly the same number of career postseason wins. Who would have thought?

by Blicks on Oct 20, 2008 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Twins wanted him to be hacky and slap at the ball.

He really started to drive it in Fenway and just started punching them oppo off the monster.

by rglass44 on Oct 20, 2008 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Didn't know that.

Carlos and Victor Zambrano have exactly the same number of career postseason wins. Who would have thought?

by Blicks on Oct 21, 2008 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's how the Twins play, it's so annoying.

This based purely off of speculation from watching him play on the two teams and conversations I’ve had with a friend who is a big BoSox fan and very knowledgeable.

by rglass44 on Oct 21, 2008 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks.

Carlos and Victor Zambrano have exactly the same number of career postseason wins. Who would have thought?

by Blicks on Oct 21, 2008 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Papi will be back

he’s a much better hitter than Mo Vaughn ever was. and doesn’t have a degenerate knee condition.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Oct 21, 2008 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He's not that much better.

He’s still heavy and a wrist could be worse than a knee condition.

by rglass44 on Oct 22, 2008 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ALso, Sonny has great peripherals

He looks unlucky this year, and he pitched a great game against Boston in the playoffs, but he isn’t a number 2 starter on any top half team in baseball.

by rglass44 on Oct 20, 2008 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

PECOTA WARP Projections

Sonny- 3.1, 2.3, 2.4, 2.4, 2.1
Fielder- 5.8, 6.0, 5.4, 5.4, 4.9

by rglass44 on Oct 20, 2008 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

warp is crap

the fielding metric is bad (although it has Fielder at 10 runs compared to average, which is about right) and it overrates playing time. that being said, if you subtract two wins from Fielder’s total (to account for the fact that it’s replacement level is way low), you do get a realistic numbers - 4 WAR for a while then down to 3. average is about 2 WAR.

i’m not sure how WARP works for pitchers, honestly. but a 4.00 ERA pitcher is about 3 WAR if you calculate it correctly.

also, are those projections pre-2008?

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Oct 21, 2008 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes they are pre-2008.

Sonny’s year this year was eerily similar to his year last year. His K-rate and BB-rate got a little worse, but he gave up less homers. His FIP dropped from 4.26 to 3.91, but with the drop in offense that isn’t that much different. His BABIP was high both years. So, the PECOTA projections might become a little more optimistic, but I’m not sure by how much. Interestingly, PECOTA projects Sonny to always underperform his peripheral numbers in terms of ERA. PECOTA is usually also the best projection system for pitchers.

by rglass44 on Oct 22, 2008 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have to say Sonny.

1. Young, #2-3 starters are heavily undervalued in the trade market. Probably because they don’t get traded that often. Usually, when you hear of trades, its either a TOR guy (Haren, Peavy, Bedard, etc.) or a BOR guy (Blanton). Little in the middle.

2. I see Sonny improving more than Fielder. He’s made great strides since last year, and Prince had somewhat of a down year. But then, I might not be doing my research.

If I wanted to explictly answer your question though “Who do you see being of more value in 3 years”, its Sonny, since Prince will be a FA and Sonny will be in his last year of team control. 1 year of Sonny + 2 draft picks >>> 2 draft picks.

Carlos and Victor Zambrano have exactly the same number of career postseason wins. Who would have thought?

by Blicks on Oct 20, 2008 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Young, #2-3 starters are heavily undervalued in the trade market.

Am I taking crazy pills or something? Since when is Sonny considered a “young #2-3 starter?”

He has great peripherals and seems to have really improved since that start in OAK where hes says he figured it out. What makes him a 2-3 starter, though? I just can’t see it. I’m not trying to be argumentative, and I’m sure RJ is going to box me. butI thought we had agreed that solid 4-5 on a playoff team was his ultimate role.

by rglass44 on Oct 20, 2008 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I just appreciate the open dialogue

That was all I was trying to get at. One way to look at this is tRA+ vs. wOBA+. Extremely, EXTREMELY rudimentary, but Prince is was a 113 this year, 123 last year. Sonny was a 117 this year, 106 last year. Sonny’s BABIP last year was .326 and .302 this year. .302 should be right in line with expectancy. Fielders GB was up and his FB/LD down. Of course none of this means anything since it is only two data points. It is extreme to call Sonny a #2 at this point, I will concede that, but I’m just not that high on Prince. Your examples above of Vaughn and Ortiz demonstrate two guys that were crazy good over a short shelf life. In 10 years I could see Sonny still getting by as a #4 somewhere. Prince will have 2 bad knees and be unable to play in the field. Probably too long of a view, and again I am solely basing this on opinion. Flame away.

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 21, 2008 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

flame flame flame

I do think Prince is built differently than Ortiz. Ortiz appears to carry his weight better than Prince. Being heavy is one thing, if the body frame supports it. I hate to be a pessimist, but I just see permanent DH-dom close in Prince’s future.

Outside the fact that Ortiz is several inches taller and weighs significantly less than Prince.

Carlos and Victor Zambrano have exactly the same number of career postseason wins. Who would have thought?

by Blicks on Oct 21, 2008 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

We are an AL team without a DH and lots of pitching depth.

As such, I think Prince would have more value than Prince. Sonny may have more value in 3 years to an NL team, but we aren’t an NL team.

by rglass44 on Oct 21, 2008 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You know like

Willy/Cliffy DH for next season? Willy makes me want to shout. Throw my hands up and shout. Yayy yayy yeah.

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 21, 2008 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good pitchers are valuable everywhere.

Sonny is a good pitcher.

Therefore…

by R.J. Anderson on Oct 21, 2008 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

1Bs with poor gloves (-10ish runs)...

are about equally valuable as DHs. moving Fielder to DH doesn’t increase his value

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Oct 21, 2008 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Isn't he -10 already?

If so, won’t he be more valuable as a DH than a 1B in the foreseeable future. Are you low on Morneau as well?

by rglass44 on Oct 22, 2008 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I might be on the equivalent of crazy pills.

And not wording things correctly. Too much caffeine, and a massive lab report on the next screen can do that to you.

I wouldn’t be hesitant to call Sonny a #3. #2 upside, but not a #2 just yet, and may never be one. I just see him improving going into next year. And, I don’t think you can really write him off as being of a certain spot until after next year. 2008 could easily be a fluke year, or he could have a great plethora of added potential, which you can’t see until it happens.

Adding a third data point into Prince’s mix, 2006, you could consider his 2007 year to be an anomaly. 2006 was his rookie season though.

Prince’s BABIP was .286 in 2007, but at the .300 level in 2006 and 2008. Interesting. Fielder’s OBP has been higher in both 2007 and 2008 over 2006 though. Prince has pretty much reverted back to a slight improvement over 2006 levels . Closer GB% rates, FB rates, LD rates, etc. than to 2007. But then, to truly “write off” Prince, we’ll have to see what happens in 2009.

Carlos and Victor Zambrano have exactly the same number of career postseason wins. Who would have thought?

by Blicks on Oct 21, 2008 1:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

it all depends what you count as a "#2" or "#2" starter. here's a good scale:

1 3.50 ERA
2 4.00 ERA
3 4.50 ERA
4 5.00 ERA
5 5.50 ERA

those are median values, so the #1 pitcher’s mean ERA will be skewed lower thanks to the cream of the crop.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Oct 21, 2008 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Price is our clear cut ace by 2010 maybe 2011 at the latest.

If we can find a buyer for Sonny then we should jump at it. We have 4 aces starting next year and our 5 could be either EJax (I’d rather not go into arb. with him) or Davis, Neimann or Talbot.

If Sonny could bring us someone like Jayson Werth then we pull the trigger. I’m still a Corey Hart believer.

Rays 2009 Slogan: "Come back with your shield or on it"

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Oct 21, 2008 7:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sonny will never bring that because 95% of GMs don't realize how good he is.

Plus we’re losing 1.5 runs per start by putting Edwin in over Sonny. No thanks.

by R.J. Anderson on Oct 21, 2008 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I've been saying Jax for Sonny since July

I don’t think Philly would do it though, they know what they have in Werth and that is a damn good ballplayer that absolutely mashes lefties.

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 21, 2008 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, I'd agee

chances go down even more they move him if the lose Pat The Bat.

Rays 2009 Slogan: "Come back with your shield or on it"

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Oct 21, 2008 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sonny = Werth

Dammit I need some sleep

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 21, 2008 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Scott Hairston could be had for less.

Or Josh Phelps. Or Kevin Mench.

by R.J. Anderson on Oct 21, 2008 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And none of those guys are good

We had Phelps I watched him crush a ball over the RF fence in Spring Training and then strikeout in every other AB. Werth plays good defense and platoons well with a Gross type player.

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 21, 2008 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Career OPS v. LHP:

Phelps – .859
Hairston – .847
Mench – .900
Werth – .920

They aren’t at Werth’s level, but less than .05 OPS points separates Hairston from Werth. A few hundred thousand for Mench or Sonnanstine for Werth? You take Mench no doubt.

by R.J. Anderson on Oct 21, 2008 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually I will disclaim by saying I haven't looked at defensive numbers, so no doubt might be a bit strong.

by R.J. Anderson on Oct 21, 2008 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Phelps was a joke right?

Mench has a decent enough stick, but I wouldn’t trust him to guard a walk-in closet let alone RF. Hairston’s slash .280 /.316/.580 is more indicative of the player he is than OPS. That slg is vastly inflated and calls his sample size into question (152 PA against Lefties). OBP is not good and he k’s 20% of the time (this is all against LHP only).

To be clear I recommended trading Jackson for Werth. I wouldn’t trade Sonny unless it was an absolute hose-job (Paging Brian Sabean). Mench as a DH is interesting, but then what do we do with Willy Aybar. We need to find a way to get that guy 600 PA’s next season, he is just that good and young.

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 21, 2008 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kevin Towers and Ed Wade would be good

for a hose-job also

Rays 2009 Slogan: "Come back with your shield or on it"

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Oct 21, 2008 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kevin Towers is one of the best GMs in the league.

by R.J. Anderson on Oct 21, 2008 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

when has he ever made a good move?

Other than Peavy & Gonzalez who as ever came up in thier system. For as long as he’s been there, its very few.

Rays 2009 Slogan: "Come back with your shield or on it"

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Oct 21, 2008 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Let's go through his best moves:

Acquired 1B Adrian Gonzalez, OF Terrmel Sledge and RHP Chris Young from the Texas Rangers in exchange for RHP Adam Eaton, RHP Akinori Otsuka and C Billy Killian.

Acquired OF Mike Cameron from the New York Mets in exchange for INF/OF Xavier Nady.

Acquired left-handed pitcher Bobby M. Jones, right-handed pitcher Josh Reynolds and outfielder Jay Bay from the New York Mets in exchange for right-handed pitchers Steve Reed and Jason Middlebrook.

Acquired Brian Giles for Jason Bay and Oliver Perez.

Traded RP Andrew Brown to the Oakland Athletics for OF Milton Bradley

Acquired Phil Nevin in exchange for utility infielder Andy Sheets

Acquired Ryan Klesko, Bret Boone and Jason Shiell for Wally Joyner, Reggie Sanders, and Quilvio Veras.

Traded Derrek Lee for Kevin Brown

Won the 1998 NL pennant in part because of that deal.

by R.J. Anderson on Oct 21, 2008 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

PROCEED WITH EXTREME CAUTION THIS MAN IS A SERIAL RAPIST

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 21, 2008 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

I wouldnt say all of these are great deals but good yes.

I was more referring to that nobody other than Peavy as developed in their system since he’s been there that I can remember.

Rays 2009 Slogan: "Come back with your shield or on it"

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Oct 22, 2008 7:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Phelps is available, so I threw him out there.

Is Mench all that much worse than Hinske or Gomes?

And again Brian Sabean is not someone who is going to value Sonnanstine, unless he gets stunned by the wins total it’s simply not happening.

by R.J. Anderson on Oct 21, 2008 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think Hinske, Gomes, or Mench are on any sort of list for us

Good point about Sabean maybe if we were trading him All Gay Piershitski we might get somebody good.

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 21, 2008 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Also, career wise Hairston has close to 400 PAs v. LHP,and just shy over 1,000 total.

by R.J. Anderson on Oct 21, 2008 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I looked solely at last year for the numbers I used

Not the cleanest way, but puts emphasis on what have you done for me lately.

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Oct 21, 2008 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ah, okay.

by R.J. Anderson on Oct 21, 2008 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

read up on Phelps, everyone

http://ussmariner.com/2008/10/15/free-talent-alert-free-talent-alert/

he had 177 plate appearances as a Ray, guys. that’s about what Carlos Pena had early this year while he was sucking.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Oct 21, 2008 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

so So Taguchi

Rays 2009 Slogan: "Come back with your shield or on it"

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Oct 21, 2008 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

so=or, damn it...I quit

Rays 2009 Slogan: "Come back with your shield or on it"

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Oct 21, 2008 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

josh phelps is a good name

but he’s got a history with tampa

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Oct 21, 2008 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not with this FO though.

Wheeler also had a history.

by R.J. Anderson on Oct 21, 2008 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good point.

Besides, he was far from terrible here (for two whole months) before getting sent out. With Gomes breaking out and Eduardo Perez on the bench, he got squeezed out more than tossed due to some negative factor. Plus, you can never have enough room for Nick Green, Alex Gonzalez, Joey Gathright and Damon Hollins.

by RATW on Oct 22, 2008 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs