Matt Holliday?
by Flanky on Oct 30, 2008 10:20 PM EDT
37 comments
What about Kaz and EJ for Holliday and Fuentes? Hate to give up the arms --- actually in five years we might regret losing EJ more than Kaz --- but it's going to take arms to get bats and we've got 'em. See if they'll take Neimann or Sonny instead, but Holliday in RF makes me tingle all over!
That being said, I'd feel OK going back into battle with the same crew again. We had our chances in the WS, but overall, how can you not feel good about what they did this year. I am grateful to them for all the joy they brought to my entire family.
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Uhh, no.
1. Fuentes is a FA after the season. He probably won’t be in a Rockies uniform, and thus you can’t trade for him.
2. Why the HELL do you trade Kazmir for Holliday? WHY WHY WHY. Holliday is an FA after the 2009 season, and his agent is Boras. He will be looking for a 100MM contract, something the Rays probably won’t be giving out, especially to a corner outfielder.
A team that relies so heavily on developing internally and making trades should NOT be trading for one year rentals. Smart usage of prospects/young players and overall farm health is critical for prolonged success of the Rays. Trade young, cheap players to fill holes, yes, but try to focus on long-term solutions with the trades. At least two years.
The Dirty Canuck of the now.
by Blicks on Oct 30, 2008 10:31 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Woot. Thx.
The Dirty Canuck of the now.
by Blicks on Oct 30, 2008 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes. This is well-said. Kudos.
Indie.
by Taylor H on Nov 1, 2008 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I could live with Holliday
with the knowledge that he’s just a rental, and in that case, you don’t give anything close to Kazmir for him.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on Oct 30, 2008 10:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
they probably will want way too much for him
by RaysOfHope on Oct 30, 2008 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're probably right.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on Oct 31, 2008 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I compare a potential Holliday haul to the haul the Rangers got for Teixeira.
It will be less because the Rays will get Holliday for one half season less, but in terms of prospect cost per season, it will be pretty equal, with a slight edge to Teixeira.
I’m thinking EJax, Hellickson, and another top prospect gets it done.
The Dirty Canuck of the now.
by Blicks on Oct 31, 2008 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't do that deal though, just giving an estimate of what gets it done.
The Dirty Canuck of the now.
by Blicks on Oct 31, 2008 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
EJax could be good yet. Who knows....
Indie.
by Taylor H on Nov 1, 2008 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, you might be right...
This is why I’m not a GM, because I didn’t consider the contract status of either player, although I know that Holliday would be outside the usual budget.
I hate myself for thinking it, because he has been the face of this franchise, but should we consider trading Kazmir for a legit star bat?? His fragility and step backward this year make me wonder if he truly will become the every year 15-20 win guy for the next 10-15 years that we always assumed he would be. Maybe his value will never be higher than it is right now, at a time where we could probably absorb the loss better than any time in our history. Should he be in the mix when we think about trades or is he still untouchable??
by Flanky on Oct 30, 2008 11:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
kazmir will be the kaz of 2007 next year
so im not willing to trade him
by RaysOfHope on Oct 30, 2008 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you're replying to a specific post, the reply button is nice
Keeps threads organized. :-)
I’m not saying the Rays shouldn’t trade Kazmir. If someone makes a solid offer for him, and it will improve the team holistically for a good period of time, you pull the trigger. You don’t trade Kaz for a band-aid like Holliday. Face it: the Rays aren’t going to be shelling out the money required to keep him around after 2009, and there’s no reason why they should give out a potentially franchise-crippling deal to a corner OF.
And, young pitching signed to below market value deals is ALWAYS in high demand. Always.
The Dirty Canuck of the now.
by Blicks on Oct 31, 2008 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very Good SP > Very Good OF
Very Good Starting Pitcher under control with a reasonable contract >>>>>>>> Very Good OF with one year left on his contract
by floridaroar on Oct 31, 2008 8:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This is true to a point..
Who better fits the ball club? I choose Kazmir as well this time. But we really are going to have to make a deal for a masher that can play OF defense and simply accept the fact that we may only have him for one year. Matt Holliday is one of the few that seems perfect for us. The other guys that conceivably could wind up filling that badass in RF role we are looking for are:
Aaron Rowand
Brian Giles
Magglio Ordonez
Josh Hamilton
Alfonso Soriano
Carlos Lee
Clubs may be hesitant to trade these guys in some cases, but each of these clubs also has pitching holes we can fill. For instance my RF would be Vladimir Guerrero, but we can’t get him. Ichiro (can’t happen) would be next…then Holliday.
To me, this is the only hole on the 25-man roster. We could upgrade at DH, but I like the flexibility we have at the DH spot.
by Kenny845 on Oct 31, 2008 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As soon as you decide you "absolutely have to have" a certain player/type of player, you're screwed.
An upgrade is an upgrade.
J.K.L.
by acblue on Oct 31, 2008 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Still..
Isn’t he exactly the type of player you would envision dominating this league for us?
2-21-08 $338 on the Rays to win the Pennant at 95:1 = $32,448. -bet placed by the new Matt Garza Fan Club Preisdent.
by Kenny845 on Nov 1, 2008 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's a very good player, without question.
He’d make the Rays a better team, but he wouldn’t be enough of an upgrade for the Rays to “dominate” the AL East, and he wouldn’t be worth the cost.
J.K.L.
by acblue on Nov 2, 2008 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's say the Rays play 2009 with Holliday.
Now it’s 2010. What’s the solution for right field?
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Oct 31, 2008 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hopefully desmond jennings but i doubt it since he missed more than half the season
if he had played a full year last year i think that he wouldve been ready by then, but more likely mid 2010, but now he has set himself back to A ball again to start the season
everything Rays,Marlins,Twins and Reds
by RaysOfHope on Oct 31, 2008 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
eh
Holliday wont be a Ray but even if he does come here somehow, that is a concern after 2009. For next year, we could just enjoy another awesome bat,
by joeybw on Nov 1, 2008 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
come on!
every player can’t be on lock down for us..we are allowed to have a player for a year here and there. Plus.. winning could be what keeps him here over the extra couple million from NYY
2-21-08 $338 on the Rays to win the Pennant at 95:1 = $32,448. -bet placed by the new Matt Garza Fan Club Preisdent.
by Kenny845 on Nov 1, 2008 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except that the difference won't be a couple million
The Rays aren’t going to offer Holliday anything close to a 100MM contract, and they shouldn’t do such to a corner outfielder. Holliday will easily get 100MM or close to that on the open market.
All the long term contracts on the staff are to young players, and are well below market value. Even though the Rays have a deep farm system, it is finite, and those assets must be used very prudently, since the Rays don’t have the payroll to go on a free agent spending spree.
And, you don’t hire Scott Boras if you’re willing to take a discount.
The Dirty Canuck of the now.
by Blicks on Nov 1, 2008 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boras, eh..
There is no way we sign him, then. Pena signed…but circumstances are SOO different here. I would expect Holliday to put up numbers with us that would demand 15mil.
2-21-08 $338 on the Rays to win the Pennant at 95:1 = $32,448. -bet placed by the new Matt Garza Fan Club Preisdent.
by Kenny845 on Nov 1, 2008 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it were up to Boras that Pena deal doesn't happen.
by R.J. Anderson on Nov 1, 2008 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes and no.
It was a complete crapshoot whether anyone was really going to give Pena any better than that, so having his client settle as opposed to testing the open market was probably the best move for Boras, the same is true with Kyle Lohse (he settled for a 1 year deal for 2008, then stayed and extended with the Cardinals as opposed to testing the open market, although I think that extension is a bad idea).
The Dirty Canuck of the now.
by Blicks on Nov 1, 2008 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Remember, Boras works for the players. He doesn't always decide what deal players sign.
Tools Whore
Sign Bonds!
by Tyler on Nov 1, 2008 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I recall.
His objective is just to get the most money for the players, but ultimately, it is the player who decides whether to sign.
The Dirty Canuck of the now.
by Blicks on Nov 1, 2008 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I "remember", not "recall"
The Dirty Canuck of the now.
by Blicks on Nov 1, 2008 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You guys remember?
Boras called him “the greatest player to ever put on a Devil Ray uniform.”
2-21-08 $338 on the Rays to win the Pennant at 95:1 = $32,448. -bet placed by the new Matt Garza Fan Club Preisdent.
by Kenny845 on Nov 3, 2008 12:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Milton Bradley
he was declared class B, so we wouldnt surrender a draft pick.
by LeftRight on Oct 31, 2008 2:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
IF he can stay healthy, he is only DH
I wonder how much he would want. If it isn’t much, I wouldn’t mind him at DH. When(not if) he gets hurt, Aybar can take over and not losing the draft pick is nice because we will find a way to have one of the better picks of the whole draft even though we are picking at 30.
by joeybw on Oct 31, 2008 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is the way the rays should be looking,
trying to find someone undervalued that they can trade for or sign.
Space.
It's a problem we face.
So we never go anywhere.
We just stay in one place.
by hazel on Nov 2, 2008 7:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
btw, holliday is not that person
Space.
It's a problem we face.
So we never go anywhere.
We just stay in one place.
by hazel on Nov 2, 2008 7:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm
According to Troy E. Renck of the Denver Post and Tracy Ringolsby of the Rocky Mountain News, the Rockies are shopping Matt Holliday, Garrett Atkins, and Willy Taveras.
Holliday, a Scott Boras client, is set to earn $13.5MM in 2009 before reaching free agency. Ringolsby says the Yankees, Red Sox, Rays, Angels, Mets, and Phillies have shown interest. Renck has the Cardinals as a lurker. The Nats may also be interested. The Rockies will target young pitching in return.
Atkins is under team control for 2009 and 2010. Ringoslby has the Yankees, Red Sox, Rays, Angels, Mets, Phillies, White Sox, and Twins as interested parties. Renck sees the Indians as another possibility.
Well, there’s the interest. Just say no to Atkins and I hope the Rockies learned their lesson and don’t ask us for Price again.
by joeybw on Nov 3, 2008 12:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
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