I have called this man out for the past 15-20 months…His work and opinions lack objectivity and credibility

Problem is, we all try to give people the benefit of the doubt. Don’t give Marc praise, because what he did was try to justify his own vote. In that sense he does deserve credit, but he backed himself into it. He had to justify his BBWAA membership by putting the credibility of his vote with the fact he was indeed the 5th most valuable player in the league if he by rule was this team’s most valuable player.

With all due respect, many may not see it the way I do. I don’t see praise where there is nothing but scorn and political tricks. Don’t be analyst when your job is to be a beat writer and reporter. He politicked and it showed.

What Topkin was trying to do was justify the award in that the Rays MVP was in this case no worse than the 4th or 5th most valuable player in the league. This is an osmosis style argument in that Topkin makes you jump to a conclusion and make an assumption. The local media, at least the Tampa Bay BBWAA chapter is largely based off of what Marc Topkin says or believes. His weight is by far the loudest in this market, regardless if someone like a Romano or Henderson or Lancaster has a differing opinion. This was Topkin’s choice. This goes beyond just the voting for each individual chapter’s team MVP votes but for the big money awards like Cy Young, league MVP, Manager and Rookie. It also leads to the importance of HOF voting which these people in the BBWAA control too. The BBWAA and its chapters are trying regard and maintain their “fringe” importance with the sporting public and maintain their relevance, i.e. like the media that vote for the NFL HOF. That part is another argument for another time.The fact still remains, either circumstantial or not that some people, not just myself asked Marc straight up and and out if he did vote Bartlett as the team MVP, would he then earn league MVP consideration?

If you want to think this is a vendetta, fine. You can think that and others may think that too. But go back to the earlier post where Bartlett was named as the Rays MVP and read the comments and REASONS during that post. I understand where I am the one leading the charge, but note I was not the writer of this post nor the original one. We can discuss Topkin if you want off the site, which is fine by me as well. I do not think that the conclusion is illogical because I know because not only I asked Topkin but a couple of others asked Topkin about his MVP criteria. I give him credit that he is consistent, but backed himself into a corner.

I starred a comment I made because it links in my mind to another thought raised by the commentary over the local media’s selection of Bartlett and Topkin’s vote in the league MVP balloting.

By inclination, I am on the side of those who consider progressive statistics the best basis for beginning, and often concluding, a discussion of a player’s worth. When the question is clearly stats based and the stats are pretty clear-cut, I think they should determine the case. I get very testy when people seek to deny the importance of statistical reasoning in baseball or misuse stats out of ignorance or willful disregard for honesty.

But the issue is often more complicated. Not every question is automatically purely determined by statistical analysis, and in many cases, the statistics themselves are contradictory or inconclusive, requiring refined judgments aside from the pure numbers.

If Topkin selects Bartlett as an MVP candidate, and tries to defend it purely by statistics, he is lost. But like it or not, MVP arguments are not so clear-cut as we might like to think. (I remember Bill James questioning the eligibility of Dick Allen for the HOF because he thought him such a divisive influence in clubhouses that he hurt his teams’ ability to compete.) Someone like Topkin has access to the players and management of the Rays, and he may well (I am guessing here) be incorporating some of their comments into his judgments. Early in the year, Maddon labeled Howell an MVP of the Rays-or one of them anyway. Was that stupid, was it purely motivational, or was it an honest appraisal of Howell’s significance from one vantage point? Viewing the clubhouse close up, talking with Maddon, teammates, Bartlett and others may influence the way Topkin thinks about an issue like MVP. I think it rather narrow-minded to ignore those insights as if they can have no role whatsoever in the deliberations.

“In any case, so what. If indeed his was the strongest voice in favor of Topkin,”
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Of course, I meant “in favor of Bartlett”

You might want to go back to that thread, by the way. I see only one comment by you, and it regards what I consider an illogical connection between voting for the team MVP and voting for the league MVP. As I have never seen anything Topkin wrote on that, I cannot judge your interpretation of what he might be thinking on that score, but it simply is not a sensible conclusion that one should lead to the other.

Otherwise, that thread contains an lengthy discussion back and forth of the Bartlett choice, and except for your comment, generally seems to focus on either disagreeing with or providing a rationale for defending the choice. I do not see any evidence there that you are leading a charge in presenting reasons for thinking the choice inapt, and certainly no follow-up support for your attack on Topkin’s competence or integrity.

but that is not what you were writing about. Your posts were about Topkin’s competence and integrity, using the Bartlett selection as ammunition for your attacks on him. Those are two quite different issues.

It is quite possible to make a strong case that Bartlett was a terrible MVP choice, both for the Rays and for a place on the league MVP ballot. I think it is also possible to make a reasonable defense of those choices on various grounds. But I do not think it reasonable to use the choices as a bludgeon against the writer who made them.