The Sabathia Deal
Well, I'm not all that surprised, but I am a little dissipointed that I'll have to start cheering against Cream Cheese Sabathia (or is it Cheese Cake now?). I ran some numbers to find the break-even point for the deal.
I used RJ's beloved NLRS method (5.75-FIP)*(IP/9) and converted to WAR. The break-even point occurs when his performance (FIP) declines by 7.75% and IP by 5% per year. As per usual, I added 10% inflation in the cost per WAR. Here's a helpful table that shows what it looks like.
| Year | FIP | IP | WAR | Cost | Value ($ 1,000,000) |
| 2009 | 3.30 | 240 | 6.53 | 4.84 | 32.02 |
| 2010 | 3.56 | 228 | 5.56 | 5.32 | 29.99 |
| 2011 | 3.83 | 217 | 4.62 | 5.86 | 27.44 |
| 2012 | 4.13 | 206 | 3.71 | 6.44 | 24.29 |
| 2013 | 4.45 | 195 | 2.83 | 7.09 | 20.44 |
| 2014 | 4.79 | 186 | 1.97 | 7.79 | 15.79 |
| 2015 | 5.16 | 176 | 1.15 | 8.57 | 10.24 |
| 160.22 |
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Well, New York is known for its cheesecake.
So he’s Cheese Cake Sabathia.
Or Cookie Cookie Sabathia. I just like that one a lot.
Dude. This.
So, if he's good, CC can bolt after 3 years if he can get a bigger deal
And, if he’s still good, he’ll easily get a bigger deal elsewhere so he’ll bolt.
If he sucks/gets hurt, he doesn’t exercise the opt out and becomes dead weight. Bwahahahaha.
Dude. This.
If money is the driver, he likely won't bolt from the Yanks to anyone other than the Yanks; nobody else even wanted to come close to their contract, which is why they got him.
My guess is the 3 year stip is for his personal security in case he just doesn’t like it on the East Coast.
Inflation, and this year is very much a buyer's market.
I could see someone offering him a bigger deal than 4/92 (what his deal will be worth) after the 3 years. Assuming he’s still good, that is.
Although you’re probably right as well; the personal security with the opt out clause is there.
Dude. This.
Captain Cupcake
That’s his name. CC stands for Captain Cupcake.
Joe
Welcome to New York, CC...
Signed…
Jack McDowell, Jim Abbott, Hedeki Irabu, Randy Johnson, Carl Pavano, Kevin Brown, Jeff Weaver, Kie Igawa, and Roger Clemens ailing groin.
The Rays lost the World Series to bad umpires, Mother Nature, and the Philadelphia Phillies.
by thebaddancingraysfan on Dec 10, 2008 1:22 PM EST reply actions
Him too..
Although a few friends of mine are quick to point out that much of the aforementioned players were older, and CC is has more potential and is younger.
The Rays lost the World Series to bad umpires, Mother Nature, and the Philadelphia Phillies.
by thebaddancingraysfan on Dec 10, 2008 7:40 PM EST up reply actions
Along with some analysts at BP,
I think the Yankees are misdiagnosing their problems and threw their money in the wrong direction. In my view, their primary need now and in the foreseeable future is offense (and defense), more so than starting pitching. Or rather, I think there were and are decent options to fill out their rotation while there are many fewer to fill out the lineup which increasingly depends on one or two big time players to carry it and has many serious risks with no obvious solutions if they crater.
Part of the problem with teams like NY is that they feel they cannot be patient, cannot suffer even one non-playoff year so they can reload intelligently for a long run of success which their resources could insure. It is possible that the Yankees need the starters now, but over the next 2-5 years they have a good chance with what is in the system to develop a fine rotation, especially with their ability to supplement it in the free agent market should one slot be open.
But the offense (and defense) do not provide as rosy a scenario. Over the next 5 years they will need new starters at catcher (Montero?), 1B, SS, LF, CF (Jackson), RF and DH. And it is likely that even 3B will not be quite as extraordinary as it has been, while 2B has become questionable as well. In other words, they have a pretty good chance at needing to fill out 5- 8 spots in the lineup. Maybe some prospects will emerge to do that, although it is likely NY will always be picking later in the draft while still missing the post-season. But is it likely they can buy that many players?
To me the smart thing would have been to try to sign Teixeira (they may still do it, I know) and risk missing the post-season again in 2009 if the young pitchers do not develop adequately. They would at least have an offensive center-piece around which to build.
I do agree to a point
Clearly the problem – if consistent contention for the playoffs is a problem – is the constant pressure to win it all every year. That they have the resources to do so covers for a lot of sins.
But saying they need to replace many lineup spots within 5 years is true of virtually every team in the majors – the Rays are likely as bad if not worse off out that far in the position player department.
I strongly agree that Texeira would have been a key acquisition this year – there aren’t any significant 1B candidates available through FA until 2011, and the Yanks don’t have a strong candidate in their system (some argue for Laird at Charleston). Strange that NY hasn’t picked a candidate for that slot in the first 10 rounds for 5 years, despite knowing Giambi’s age and contract term. But many also feel Montero will eventually move to that spot, allowing him to reach the majors sooner. Guess we’ll see. Of course, that reduces the C prospect pool – but NY has a bit more depth there in the system.
That’s not to say the Yanks might not cycle back to Texeira after all – but that would require a willingness to maintain payroll at or above $200MM again next year, assuming they will continue to pursue another external FA starter and bring back Pettitte for ‘09. I’d prefer they sign Sheets on a shorter deal at this point – if they truly believe they have depth in pitching in the system, leaving room for them to rise makes sense, and allows NY to use available budget to feel the near term holes in the OF. With Damon, Matsui, and Nady all FA’s in 2010, the need is clear. But there are or will be candidates there. Here too the Yanks have failed to fill their needs through the draft – picking some OF’s high, but lacking power hitting candidates at any full season level.
I’m less concerned at 2B and 3B than you – the former spot is an area where NY has org depth, and ARod is one of those freak of nature types. SS will require some difficult adjustments – Jeter being the icon he is in NY. But he has the ability to move off that spot if necessary to another option – likely OF – and I hold him in higher regard than most out of NY fans. I think he perhaps takes a disproportionate beating as the embodiment of the Evil Empire. Not that I think his D at SS is especially good. NY does have candidates to fill in there as well, though none are held in very high regard right now and will have to take a step forward in development over the next year or 2.
Though most analysts have poohpoohed it, the Yanks could add the 3 starters mentioned plus Tex and maintain their payroll around it’s current high level. That would most assuredly piss off all Yanks haters again – I too would prefer they had more ready candidates to plug in. But as you pointed out, winning does hurt one’s draft position and ability to pick the top end candidates.
A situation your org may have to contend with moving forward as well. It’s a new game for Tampa as well.
What NY has been reminded of with TB’s success this year is that pitching wins. Injuries and inadequate performance form some emerging prospects there, plus a couple of key injuries on the position side (Posada, Matsui) left Ny coming up a bit short in ‘08, much like Boston in ’06. That they had the best record (with the Mets) of non-playoff teams means they weren’t far away. Better pitching could be enough to get over the hump – and the perception is strong in NY that their failure to advance in the playoffs in the last few years is the lack of top end starting pitching, so that’s the focus.
by nyyfaninlaaland on Dec 10, 2008 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
Nyyfaninlaaland (clears throat)
You have your “home” glasses on.
Enlighten me on how the Rays are “as bad if not worst in the player department?” The Rays have talent they can rely on and replenish with for the next few years. The Yankees have questions to say the least. If you think the answer to the Yankees woes is to purchase players, they you have learned nothing from watching the Yankees the last couple of years. Yes, they reached the playoffs, but I was under impression that Yankees measure success by winning a World Series or nothing else. Correct me if I am wrong.
So your starting line-up for the Yankees will be? 1B? Cano and second, but which Can will you get? SS will be Jeter but he is starting to look more average with every gray hair he grows. 3B is Arod who is awesome, but has questions in the clutch. You have Swisher, which is like Cano. You have Deamon, who is not what you thought he would be, right? Who do you have RF?
The Yankees have CC, Wang,… Pettite has a question, Hughes hasn’t proven himself just yet, and Joba hasn’t been a starter for full year in the majors. You have Mariano in the 9th and you have Rameriz in the 8th… so this team doesn’t exactly put fear in my eyes like the Yankees once did in the 99.
The Yankee with CC look old and desperate. They need to come clean and just admit they are rebuilding and will be back up to form in a few years.
Finally, I don’t see even with CC, the Yanks breaking 4th place. Good luck, as always.
The Rays lost the World Series to bad umpires, Mother Nature, and the Philadelphia Phillies.
by thebaddancingraysfan on Dec 10, 2008 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
I agree their problem is underestimating defense.
And that manifests itself in two ways:
- Playing crappy fielders
- Over-valuing the offensive production of 1B/LF/RF types and over-paying too many of them, mostly without and fielding talent.
There isn’t one move that will undo those problems, but we’ll see in the next few off-seasons if they’ve learned anything.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
Swisher
Is that elixir….It looks like D-Lowe is next up for them..
I think they have missed the boat too in their deployment of their assets. One of Hughes or Kennedy will be their #5 and it will be Sabathia, Lowe, Wang, Chamberlain and whoever as their starters.
I think their offense will take a step back too.
Joe
I fully expect Pettitte to fill a spot for '09
and I’m not convinced Lowe is the guy. They’re in on all 3 of he, Burnett, and Sheets. Likely signing 1.
Andy’s playing money hardball – but I expect that will be worked out. That leaves Hughes, Kennedy, etc (Aceves showed some ability across the minors and in NY late), to fill in for any injury, limitations on Joba, etc.
I agree the offense could take a hit, but a full season from Posada would be a big improvement from last years overrelianace on Molina and the later add of an ineffective Pudge. A more healthy Matsui should be a positive – the guy can still hit . Swish can hopefully rebound to offset some of Big G’s input – the big shortfall is the loss of Abreu. Could be a wash overall, with possible improvements in D in RF and at 1B. Thus NY has tried to solve the pitching side.
Don’t forget NY saw 44 starts between Ponson and Rasner, only 27 from Wang plus Joba. Add in another 32 starts between Hughes, Kennedy, Giese, Pavano, Aceves, and Igawa. NY won 89 games despite that. Consider that the Rays got a total of 9 starts outside their top 5.
by nyyfaninlaaland on Dec 10, 2008 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
Not so simple-
While the Yanks indeed had to put up with a lot of starts from crappy pitchers, they still were a significantly better pitching team last year than in 07. Why? An overperforming bullpen+Mussina for starters. So, some things to consider:
1)Even with Posada’s return, the offense will likely not be better than last year, where their offense was 7th in the league (close to that of the Rays). The defense will be marginally better, but still poor.
2)Yes, the Yanks had 89 wins, but by Pythag, they would have been 4th in the division (Sox, Rays, Jays, Yanks). It is a very competitive division.
3)Key players are old (Jeter, Posada, Damon, Matsui, Rivera)
4)Hughes/Joba will be capped in innings.
While CC helps, he will be an improvement over Mussina of last year in innings only (say by 30). The offense may be worse, and the bullpen likely too. They will be a contender, but this move does not cover for a host of real questions. On the other hand, the Rays rotation will only be aided by Price, and offensively they will likely improve (Upton, Longoria in particular), with only the bullpen likely to be worse than last year. The Sox will be tough too. I think the money could have been spent in better ways, but we will see.
I didn't want to start an ESPN Sox/Yanks bias thread..
heard that aplenty…
BUT…holy shit!! Today they talked like these Boston and NY are the only two teams in the fucking division!
Hey ESPN..watch what happens next year!
2-21-08 $338 on the Rays to win the Pennant at 95:1 = $32,448. -bet placed by the new Matt Garza Fan Club Preisdent.

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