Winter Meetings Day Three Open Thread Pt 2
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 10, 2008 2:14 PM EST
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PrintThus far today:
- Fanball.com's Jason Collette let us in on the Nelson Cruz tidbit tucked away in Jamey Newberg's emails early this morning.
- Toronto is apparently interested in Jason Bartlett. Because that's all J.P. Ricciardi needs is another glove first middle infielder.
- The asking price for Jeremy Hermida is two pitching prospects worth a damn.
- The Rays are apparently still meeting with Bobby Abreu's agent tonight.
- Ken Griffey Jr. would make a better mascot than DH.
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Gardenhire backtracks quick as hell
LAS VEGAS — Ron Gardenhire’s public comments Tuesday about Delmon Young resembled last week’s about as much as Fargo, N.D., resembles Las Vegas.
The Twins’ manager, almost sheepish about “the fire I accidentally lit” by suggesting at an appearance in Fargo last week that Young won’t be in his starting lineup next season, insisted at baseball’s winter meetings that “we’re blessed to have four talented outfielders” and that nothing is settled about the Twins’ 2009 outfield.
“I’m backpedaling; can’t you see?” Gardenhire said. “That was me sort of screwing up. … Everyone knows the players are the ones who will decide that. They’re the ones who have to go out and earn (their jobs).”
“A lot of clubs might read that and say, ‘Hey, we can get Delmon Young for nothing.’ And I can tell you right now, that ain’t going to happen,” Gardenhire said. “We gave up a lot for Delmon Young, and we’re not out to give him away. He’s a very talented player with a lot of upside.”
Funny people
Josh Queens: Could this happen…The mets trade delgado to the rays for either garza or shields then they sign tex for a deal around 7 years 160 million?
John Kruk: (2:30 PM ET ) Wishful thinking but I think Garza in the post season established himself as a top of the rotation guy and even though Delgado had a great 2nd half he can’t demand a pitcher of Garza’s ability
Ah man, I wish Law got to answer that one.
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 10, 2008 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
this
Rays 2009 Slogan: "Come back with your shield or on it"
by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Dec 10, 2008 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
Wait.....what?
The Rays have some interest in Nelson Cruz, but aren’t going to give up Edwin Jackson for him, according to the St. Petersburg Times.
Cruz did impress at the end of last season, but he’s a 28-year-old with a career .251/.312/.431 line in 557 major league at-bats. Jackson for Cruz probably wouldn’t be a good idea for Tampa Bay.
If Edwin gets us Cruz, you goddamn do it, Friedman
If Edwin is a 1.5 WAR starter...
And Cruz is just league average hitting and fielding while playing RF, then they’re equal in terms of WAR.
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 10, 2008 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
"The Rays have some interest in Nelson Cruz, but aren’t going to give up Edwin Jackson for him, according to the St. Petersburg Times."
Why…why not?
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 10, 2008 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
Don't get rid of the chip quite yet
You can always say no now and come back later if the position doesn’t get filled elsewhere. It’s not like there are tons of teams pining for him.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
It might make sense.
1st, Who is going to pay more for Cruz then the Rays? Go by dummy results-based stats, and he’s worth Hammel at best.
2nd, Would you play him full time over Gross in RF? If not, is trading away a 5th starter really worth a platoon OF in return?
Great point,
I agree with the screaming strawberry.
The Rays lost the World Series to bad umpires, Mother Nature, and the Philadelphia Phillies.
by thebaddancingraysfan on Dec 10, 2008 7:48 PM EST up reply actions
I would start him full time, mostly, and see how it goes.
If he REALLY struggles, go to the platoon. If he gets hot, let him play every day.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
who? Hammels?
I am not that impressed with his hitting, but okay…
yes, i am joking.
The Rays lost the World Series to bad umpires, Mother Nature, and the Philadelphia Phillies.
by thebaddancingraysfan on Dec 10, 2008 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
Edwin is too much...so enter.
Top Josh Paul Pornos- Big Navi Stroking, 2pitchers1cup, BJ to the Balls, Riggans Your Thingans
09: This one is for all the rings.
I saw it was wrong but was too lazy to go fix it
by Erik Hahmann on Dec 10, 2008 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
Alright, at least this means the Rangers would deal him
Any chance we can get him for Niemann/Talbot? I mean……they do need pitching, bad.
Fail? How?
Cruz had a good 30 game stretch in the majors, that hardly qualifies him as a can’t miss trade target. Jackson still has high value, even if the people on this blog refuse to recognize that…
Oliver Perez has put in a number of more shitastic years than Edwin.
Don’t worry, he’ll get there one day.
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 10, 2008 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
The age multiplier loves him.
Projected 4.64? The only time he’s been under 4.85 the past three years was 4.52 in 2006 when he threw 36 innings, otherwise 4.88 and 4.90.
If Edwin gets to 4.7 it’ll be a miracle.
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 10, 2008 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
High value?
Please explain…. He is a #5 pitcher in this league. His K rate sucks. His BB rate sucks. His LOB% was way better then it has ever been. His BA against dropped by about 30 points while his LD% actually was the highest it’s been since ’05.
Why does Cruz HAVE to be a can't-miss target to be worth acquiring?
Let’s say there’s a 1/3 chance he turns into a 4 WAR player and a 2/3 chance he never does anything productive outside of be the ok-hitting righty-half of a Gross platoon. Still worth giving up Edwin for him.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
But what if there are better options to give up Edwin for?
Or to package Edwin with? That is the issue. Once we trade him we can’t untrade him so we can include him in a deal for someone better. I am just very skeptical of a career minor-leaguer that is 28 and strikes out over a quarter of his ABs. Who was the last one of these to come up and be a 4 WAR player?
Good example
I see two flaws:
A. Cust isn’t a 4 WAR player.
B. His defense probably played a huge role in his being in the minors so long. Cruz is reputed to be a plus defender. Wouldn’t he be up if he could hit his weight?
3 WAR. Still double of Edwin.
B. He tears up AAA. Cust DHed in the minors. This point is off base.
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
Mcpherson wasn't a top prospect or anything
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
I do like how you set such an arbitrary age and strikeout ratio.
Just so Carlos Pena couldn’t qualify, eh?
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 10, 2008 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
It's not arbitrary.
That’s his age, that’s his k-rate. Carlos played over 100 big league games as a 24, 25, and 26 year old. Do you want me to say “name a player that is a career minor-leaguer until he’s 24…”
Okay, and the WAR total came from Sky, so that's understandable.
Here’s what we know right now:
- Edwin has yet to show he’s capable of turning physical skills into production.
- Edwin is 25, and will soon become a millionaire.
- Edwin is destined for a lesser role on this team, likely decreasing his value.
- Edwin can be replaced by Jeff Niemann or Mitch Talbot with little to no downside.
- Cruz is 28, probably in his prime.
- Has torn up Triple-A multiple times.
- Is cheap
- Is good defensively
- Fills a need.
- Has about a season of major league at-bats.
After the trade, Edwin might become great, Cruz might bust, but with what we know right now, why don’t you make this move?
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 10, 2008 6:35 PM EST up reply actions
Because we don't know what else is available for Edwin.
I am not against Edwin for Cruz, but I am against taking it just because it’s available. It’s a long offseason, and teams aren’t going to all of a sudden decide they don’t like him.
It all comes back to our old friend oppurtunity cost. The OC of trading Ed for Cruz is any deal that we could have made with Ed.
We're not advocating taking it just because it's available.
We’re advocating taking it because it’s a good move. You’re trading risk for risk, and one of those risks has performance to back him up along with a lower cost and a need filling bat/glove.
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 10, 2008 6:42 PM EST up reply actions
one of those risks has performance to back him up
are you talking about Cruz’s .251/.312/.431 major league line?
I'm not talking about Edwin Jackson who had a 4.92 career FIP.
That .743 OPS is only a touch below league average though.
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 10, 2008 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
He wouldn't do better than Niemman
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
FYI, Nelson Cruz's MLE from 2008:
.283/.364/.571
There has been work to show that high K players don’t translate quite as well, and I’m not sure if BPro has accounted for that. Still, nice translated line.
And for those putting stock in his MLB numbers, they certainly count, but it’s the equivalent of one MLB season. At a 93 OPS+.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
There has been work to show that high K players don’t translate quite as well
That’s my biggest concern.
Well, sure, if there's something better, go for it.
We definitely disagree on the potential of Cruz. That’s fine. I’m not overly confident in my assessment of him.
But I think we can agree that trading Edwin for an ex-prospect right fielder with an above-average glove is a solid risk? We just need to find the right one, I guess.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
I definitely agree, there.
I don’t necessarily dislike Cruz (because as you say he’s at worst a good platoon partner w/ Gross), but if Jackson/Talbot/Bartlett brings in someone younger and better I’d be pissed.
Oh yeah, but that's then wishful thinking
Don’t pull the trigger now without looking at other possible trade options (Nick Evans plz). But, keep Jon Daniels on speed dial, at least for now.
But, sometimes you do have to take the gamble. The risk isn’t too high, IMO.
And EJax in Arlington is hilarious.
Dude. This.
I'd need to lock in my EJax ERA bets before that trade gets made, for sure.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
No, I'm more thinking avatar bets with the few EJax fanboys remaining.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
Do this and give us Cruz
Texas has contacted Detroit about the availability of outfielder-designated hitter Gary Sheffield.
The Rangers need a middle-of-the-lineup bat to replace Milton Bradley, headed out of town as a free agent. Sheffield carries risks.
It is possible(I hope) that we fill both spots with former Rangers
Cruz at RF Bradley DH
Yes, please.
What's the latest on Jeremy Hermida?
You say it’s two pitching prospects worth a damn? Just curious what the story is because I haven’t read anything new today.
They wanted two pitching prospects out of the Hellickson, Davis, Niemann, ect. group, we said no.
I’m guessing that’s not going anywhere.
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 10, 2008 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
I'm a Cruz fan and the complete opposite of an E-Jax fan
but Cruz is hardly guaranteed to be a good player. Lots of players tear up AAA and the minors, but can’t hack it in the majors. Jackson would at least be a good #5 pitcher in the NL, IMHO.
Cruz is a good defensive RF with a cannon, though, so that’s a bonus.
www.raysbb.com
Yes, we really do have fans.
He isn't guaranteed to be a good player, and Jackson ISN'T a good player.
by Erik Hahmann on Dec 10, 2008 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
Pitching will always have value over hitting
I’m convinced they could bait an NL team into taking Jackson and giving up something pretty nice for him.
www.raysbb.com
Yes, we really do have fans.
Why haven't we heard about any teams clamoring for Edwin, then?
And the Marlins want Sonny, not Edwin for Hermida.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
CC just signed for about $23MM per year. Offers to Teixeira already exceed that, supposedly.
Hitting is more likely to sustain value down the road. It’s worth filling a team with highly productive position players and filling in the rotation with underrated pitchers other teams throw away. This isn’t how the Rays are built, but their stockpile of young arms is just historically amazing.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
not sure if anyone posted this yet but...
Brad (Chicago): Will Milton Bradley sign with the Cubs this week?
Jim Callis: Sounds like there’s a good chance.
Rays 2009 Slogan: "Come back with your shield or on it"
by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Dec 10, 2008 4:44 PM EST reply actions
Gammons just said in the end he sees Milton signing with the Rays over the Cubs.
For whatever that’s worth.
No one knows anything until it happens
Just like the Cubs are close to “signing Abreu” “signing Ibanez” and of course, Bradley……don’t think they are about to sign all 3
No, and you deserve a fish slap for saying just jibber-jabber.
Remember how Colome basically gave up on the first game of the season in 2006 vs. the Orioles? Or Where gave up on the mound against the Pittsburg Pirates, in 2005.
The Rays lost the World Series to bad umpires, Mother Nature, and the Philadelphia Phillies.
by thebaddancingraysfan on Dec 10, 2008 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
Rangers are going after Hermida
He plays RF, who else plays RF? Wait….I almost got it…..yep there it is, Nelson Cruz
Now lets get him for Talbot or something.
Have we offer FLA Helly and Talbot for Hermida?
just tell them that Davis is not going anywhere… and then slowly talk them out of Niemann.
Helly? Fuck nooooooooooooo
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
Niemann and Talbot if we have to give 2
Hellickson and Davis are off limits and personally, I prefer Hellickson
Yeah, pretty much
I don’t get why everyone thinks Davis and Hellickson should be so off limits anyway. Our entire rotation is locked in with the Rays for at least the next four years, and even at their level there’s still a very good chance that either one won’t pan out to be all that. Getting a good outfielder for the next three years would seem to be a much higher priority than having another good starter (at best), someone who can take a rotation spot in a few years but doesn’t do much until then (likely) or completely flames out (worst case).
Vogt early, Vogt often.
I wouldn't cry if they got dealt
They can get more than Hermida is all. This would be a horrible trade
not horrible
we are dealing out of strength. we truly don’t/won’t need 2 of those arms as bad as we need a solid defensive RFer with a bat. and a cheap one at that
For fun, nothing conclusive:
2003 Top 20 from that link:
1. Mark Teixeira, 3b, Rangers
2. Rocco Baldelli, of, Devil Rays
3. Jose Reyes, ss, Mets
4. Joe Mauer, c, Twins
5. Jesse Foppert, rhp, Giants
6. Jose Contreras, rhp, Yankees
7. Brandon Phillips, 2b/ss, Indians
8. Hideki Matsui, of, Yankees
9. Gavin Floyd, rhp, Phillies
10. Francisco Rodriguez, rhp, Angels
11. Scott Kazmir, lhp, Mets
12. Miguel Cabrera, 3b, Marlins
13. Casey Kotchman, 1b, Angels
14. Justin Morneau, 1b, Twins
15. Jason Stokes, 1b, Marlins
16. Victor Martinez, c, Indians
17. Michael Cuddyer, of, Twins
18. Adam Wainwright, rhp, Braves
19. Hanley Ramirez, ss, Red Sox
20. Jeremy Bonderman, rhp, Tigers
Five absolute stars (Tex, Reyes, Mauer, Miguel, HanRam) at 5 WAR
Three really good players (Kazmir, Morneau, VMartinez) at 4 WAR
Seven above-average players (Phillips, Matsui, GFloyd, Kotchman, Wainright, KRod, Cuddyer) at 3 WAR
Two league-average players (Bonderman, Contreras) at 2 WAR
Three roster filler and flops (Floppert, Baldelli, Stokes) at 0 WAR
I actually think 3 flops is low, but the point is that while a bunch of top prospects flop, it’s nowhere near half or even one third. And the ceiling of those guys is huge. A weighted average of the top 20 prospects from 2003 provides 3.1 WAR. Or $14MM of production in today’s market. Per year.
Anyone want to do the entire 100? We could compare the relative value of each tier of 20 prospects…
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
There Is No Such Thing As A Pitching Prospect.
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 10, 2008 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
There Is No Such Thing As A Pitching Prospect
Two meanings:
- Young pitchers get hurt way to much to count on them developing into studs, like you can hitters.
- Pitchers don’t develop along nice career trajectories like many hitters do. A pitcher with great stuff should be thrown right into the majors. A pitcher who needs work might take a month or five years. Why? probably because pitching is much less reactive than hitting. You’re in control. Hitters have to learn how to react to better and better pitches and sequences of pitches.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
Frankly, that was a good year for BA and a good prospect year generally
Also, I doubt that either Hellickson or Davis ends up in BA’s top 20.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
I count 38 total in the top 100 who are pretty much flops/out of BB
So, its pretty damn close to 1/2.
Dude. This.
So 62% success (so to speak)? That's not TOO bad.
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 10, 2008 7:46 PM EST up reply actions
I forgot the 3 that Sky mentioned in the top 20.
It’s 58%
This isn’t counting marginal MLB players. Just the guys who are pretty much complete flops/out of BB.
Dude. This.
Just for the sake of argument, I present 1998
I think this one speaks for itself. I’m just saying, small sample size.
1. Ben Grieve, of, Athletics
2. Paul Konerko, 1b/3b, Dodgers
3. Adrian Beltre, 3b, Dodgers
4. Kerry Wood, rhp, Cubs
5. Aramis Ramirez, 3b, Pirates
6. Matt White, rhp, Devil Rays
7. Kris Benson, rhp, Pirates
8. Travis Lee, 1b, Diamondbacks
9. Carl Pavano, rhp, Expos
10. Miguel Tejada, ss, Athletics
11. Todd Helton, 1b, Rockies
12. Mark Kotsay, of, Marlins
13. Chad Hermansen, 2b, Pirates
14. Brad Fullmer, 1b, Expos
15. Juan Encarnacion, of, Tigers
16. Matt Clement, rhp, Padres
17. Ruben Mateo, of, Rangers
18. Rick Ankiel, lhp, Cardinals
19. Richard Hidalgo, of, Astros
20. Sean Casey, 1b, Indians
Vogt early, Vogt often.
all im saying is this
They told us to pick 2 pitchers…..why not Talbot and Niemann and then if we decide to deal one of our top arms, we trade them for another young great player. Relief ace or hitter.
Yeah...
Not a good year.
Anyone read Victor Wang’s study in the THT Annual yet? Does he do something similar to what we’re doing, but on a larger scale?
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
that list is riddled with injuries
Almost all of them showed they were gonna be stars. Wood would of been one of the best pitchers in baseball if he didn’t get hurt and Benson was a star just for a small example.
So looking who just never did anything
Grieve(after ROTY anyway), Matt White, Travis Lee, Chad Hermanson and Richard Hildago are the only guys who were a flat out bust.
Hidalgo has some good years. Lee was serviceable for a while. Hermanson had a couple decent relief seasons.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
If all we get out of Hellickson or Davis is that level of production
They’d still be at the back of our bullpen. That can’t be the measure of success here.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
What are the expectations of Hellickson/Davis?
Are they 3 WAR starters? 4? 2.5?
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 10, 2008 7:58 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know how to translate to WAR, but I'd say
Assuming they would stay as starters (which we already know probably isn’t the case for one of them), based on my own personal opinions, the scenarios:
Percentile Helly Davis
90% > Hudson Schmidt
50% > Gaudin Clement
10% > Bust Bust
IMO, if either one reaches their most likely outcome, then they’re either at the back of the rotation (when you consider who’s ahead of them) or in the bullpen.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
Okay, thanks.
I don’t have the WARs off hand either, but that’s a better outline than I previously had.
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 10, 2008 8:11 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree.
Hidalgo had 400 ABs with a career 110 OPS+. That’s at least average, assuming Hidalgo was at least an average-fielding corner outfielder (which I think he was, especially since he played CF a bunch.)
Lee had a couple seasons as an average hitter. With a good glove, he was probably 1.5 WAR those years. That’s 4th starter territory or a 3.75 bulllpen ERA.
Hermanson, from 1997 to 2001 averaged about 190 IP with a 110 ERA+. That’s 2/3 starter territory.
Listen, I’m all up for trading pitching prospects for real MLB-ready position-player talent. But not only should two of the guys mentioned fetch more than Hermida based on smart analysis, they should fetch more than him given the track record of how MLB execs value guys like them (maybe not Talbot).
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
You need to take into account the years that they suck too
Not just when they were good. They’re still dead weight on the roster if they stink.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
Yes, true.
You can leverage their careers to a certain extent, too. Like stop playing them when they start sucking. Or don’t sign them to FA contracts after their arb years are up.
Another thing we should consider is marking a cutoff after the first six years of MLB production, because that’s all that the drafting team gets without paying free agent rates (without Longo-like extensions).
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
"Like stop playing them when they start sucking."
The next manager/GM team who effectively figures that one out as they start sucking and not half a season into their suckage will be the first, to my knowledge.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
Oh, and
A starter with a 110 ERA+ WOULD be the fifth starter or in the bullpen when you already have Shields, Kazmir, Garza, Price in the rotation.
Davis and Hellickson are good prospects, but they have more relative value elsewhere. You can’t pretend like other teams don’t know that and will give full value for them.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
Doesn't matter what you label a 110+ ERA as, it's just as productive.
The point about wasting talent in the bullpen or in the minors is fair, though.
And I agree the Rays should definitely move pitching for hitting. But they shouldn’t sell all that low. If another team is looking for a pitching prospect, they are going to weight all possibilities. Just because they knew the Rays want to move a prospect more than, say, the Reds, doesn’t mean they’ll take a worse deal from the Reds.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
even better
So we are down to Grieve after his rookie year and White. Seems like a good list to me, injuries really hurt a lot of these guys.
You can't discount injuries
Getting injured is a big part of why someone becomes a bust. If you ignore the possibility of injury of course you’ll overrate prospects. With someone in their prime, you already know if they’re injury prone; you don’t know that about prospects, and young pitchers are profoundly more likely to get injured than anyone else (other than maybe young catchers).
Vogt early, Vogt often.
Yes. I agree.
That year was especially bad for injuries, though, at least the top 20.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
you are correct but
As far as injuries go, Wood wound up being very good, just became a closer. Ankiel took his valium and became a OF with good power and a GREAT arm.
Then you got Konerko, Ramirez, Tejada, Helton, and Beltre have all had the type of careers that would like me on a team that I am building.
And all of them are higher rated than Hellickson and Davis
If you look at the 20 – 40 range of every year, which is closer to where they will rank, you’ll see that both the success rate and the return are both much lower. Further narrow that down to guys who are at the upper levels of the minors (so you’re eliminating the wunderkinds who are ranked very high straight out of being drafted because everyone’s known they’re studs for years), and they get even worse.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
I admit that I am not all that confident about Davis
but he can easily surprise me.
Hellickson looks like a slightly better Shields to me. I am in love with pitchers who have great control and limit the HR’s.
If we can get a great hitter or a relief ace or better known as a “closer” for Davis, I will take it.
However, by 2010, I want Kazmir – Garza – Price – Shields – Hellickson
Shields wasn't a great prospect though
Even after he had a monster year in Montgomery, BA didn’t rate him in our organizational top 10. Most good pitching prospects should look better than Shields. Some guys who aren’t prospects pan out well too, y’know?
Vogt early, Vogt often.
How high they were rated doesnt matter much to me
I simply go by seeing games started by Hellickson and him looking very good and the type of pitcher we want. Control and low homers, AKA, not Jackson
Correct.
Chad was the one the Cubs dealt Darren Lewis for.
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 10, 2008 8:22 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, we're talking Chad? An OF? Yeah, he sucked.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
Topkin update.
Just got done with the annual managers’ lunch, and Joe Maddon sounded very intrigued by the possibilities of adding to the offense, but provided no more specifics. "There’s some very interesting stuff out there, and it’s real,’’ he said.
Quotes from Maddon actually mean something to me
Unlike Rosenthal or Olney saying things like Griffey would give anything to be a Ray.
Honestly, Griffey would be just about thrilled to sign with any team that's a contender.
Also, it’s nice for once to hear top-flight players WANTING to play for the Rays. Griffey Jr., while no longer top flight in skill, is still most certainly top flight in name. I want to keep that in perspective.
Here's a debate, Hermida vs. Ludwick
Hermida’s five years younger (25 v 30)
Both entering first year of arb
Ludwick has a career 122 OPS+, Hermida 103
Ludwick’s 2007 and 2008 were 110 and 150, Hermida 125 and 91
It seems Ludwick has a significant edge in recent production, while Hermida has a significant edge in the age department.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
Ludwich is a buy high player who will get a big contract soon
However, Hermida isn’t even trusted by his team apperently. He will be cheaper in prospects and money.
Um, yeah, I choose Hermida.
plus higher upside
Ludwick has hit his peak, i do believe.
Hermida still has stuff we havent seen yet.
Ludwick could play below his peak and Hermida could have a career year and Ludwick could still be better.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
Putz headed to Mets
3 team trade with Indians
Aaron Heilman, Endy Chavez, Mike Carp, and Franklin Gutierrez involved with Putz
They immediately go
from having the worst outfield defense in baseball to the best outfield defense in baseball. It’s not like they needed Putz right now anyway. Gutierrez is the big prize, IMO, and they got a bunch of B- level prospects as well.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
It didn't make sense until the other players were announced.
With just Heilman, Carp, Chavez, and Gutierrez being around, and some of those guys going to the Tribe, it looked fishy.
Dude. This.
And another meeting
Rays VP Andrew Friedman said he met with free agent Bobby Abreu’s representatives on Wednesday.
The Rays are also known to have met with Milton Bradley and Jason Giambi as they seek a right fielder or designated hitter. However, they’re also working on trades that might close those holes. “We made some progress on a couple different trade fronts today,” Friedman said. “There’s certainly a scenario in which something gets done before I get on a plane tomorrow.” Jeremy Hermida, Rick Ankiel and Nelson Cruz are some of the players they’ve been rumored to have interest in.
done before he gets on a plane tomorrow
I would need new pants if that is true. As long as it isn’t Griffey or Anderson anyway.
Y'ALL SO STUPID
The Detroit Tigers are set to acquire right-hander Edwin Jackson from the Tampa Bay Rays for outfielder Matt Joyce, according to a major-league source. — Ed Price
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
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