YAY LAWNDARTS!!!!!!!
3/30 for Ibanez. I wonder how this effects Dunn, Bradley, Giambi, etc.
about 3 years ago
rglass44
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That's great news.
For some reason many people had Ibanez at the top of the corner OF/DH market. This really shapes up well for the Rays.
He'll get much less than Raul.
Better player, but injuries.
I could see 3/21, since Ibanez got 3/30.
Or a 2 year deal with higher annual.
And you just don't get it, you keep it copacetic...
Wow, if that's the case
Then the Rays can have their pick of whoever they want in this market; a 10M/yr ceiling makes them competitive with every team out there.
Bradley, Dunn, Giambi, in that order of preference.
No more lefties
please
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Dec 12, 2008 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
Hmm, interesting.
It sets the market, without a doubt. That’s the good part.
The Cubs have been tied to both Bradley and Ibanez. Ibanez is gone, so the Cubbies might target Bradley better. They signed Alfonso Soriano to a 100MM contract, so they really don’t care much, if at all, about OF defense.
Although, this move makes zero sense for the Phillies as opposed to…Pat Burrell. Both Pat and Ibanez are horrible defenders, but Burrell wouldn’t cost the draft pick, and he’s the righty bat the Phils need. Amaro’s first big move is sketch.
And you just don't get it, you keep it copacetic...
People have an irrational love for Raul Ibanez
Probably cause they don’t see him play defense every day.
If I'm Pat Burrell, I absolutely would not under any circumstances resign for a team that made me do this:
by kericr on Dec 12, 2008 9:22 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Good news and bad news
Good news: He just set the market, and the rest of the free agent DH/OF should follow suite quickly. Further, he just set the bar, and we can expect the rest of the FA options to sign for no more than 10 mil a year, likely less. That probably puts Bradley, Dunn, Giambi etc around 7-8 mil a year.
Bad news: As one of three left handed FA outfielders on the market, that only leaves Abreu and Bradley for the Cubs to choose from, as they perfer a lefthanded hitter. Personally, I think Abreu makes the most sense because of health, regardless of his defense.
If Im the Rays, Im targeting Bradley and Burrell. I know we all have a crush on Giambi and have day dreamed about the possibility of getting Dunn and his monster power, but when it comes down to it, we need an everyday DH that especially mashes LHP.
by BossmanJunior333 on Dec 12, 2008 9:27 AM EST reply actions
Between Abreu and Bradley for the Cubs, Abreu makes a lot more sense
but the Cubs have had “active” conversations with Bradley and Ibanez.
So this is major cause for concern. Thankfully Giambi/Burrell/Dunn are still floating around. Adam Dunn is also left handed though.
And you just don't get it, you keep it copacetic...
Which one mashes lefties best?
Also, with the terrible time that we had against lefties this year, shouldn’t we be investing in at least one more player who hits lefties?
Joyce doesn’t fill that need, correct? And I would rather not put all our hope against lefties into one player, considering how lefties tear through our order.
I think the crush on Giambi was due to him seeming the most "signable"
When I started crushing on him, there were two reasons:
1. Abreu, Burrell, and Dunn were all type A. Now they aren’t.
2. Bradley, Abreu, Burrell, Dunn seemed out of our price range. Now they don’t.
We’re in a great spot right now. Ideally, I’d like to sign Burrell, but the position we’re in we can wait and let one fall in our lap or go after the one teh FO wants the most.
Hopefully, they will sign one.
Just say no to Griff and Anderson!
Why does everyone think Ibanez is the ceiling price?
Just asking. To me he would seem like the floor – Type A, 37 year old, no defense. I hope this doesnt push up the price for Bradley/Burrell.
I kind of agree.
For some reason, though, most people thought he was the highest price-tag going in. This may be due to his willingness to go ST, and incorrect perceptions about his defense. That was also before all the other guys didn’t get offered arb. He also has less “?” than Bradley (attitude/injury), Dunn (attitude), Giambi (obvious), Burrell (defense/money).
lawn darts get expensive
He’s been in the top 5 combined for the last three years in AL RBI’s, more than Manny Ramirez I heard on BBTN from Krukky- RBI’s>Age,Draft picks, and defense apparently. I share your concern though about the prices of these players, maybe the Rays would be better off not waiting and allowing teams who can outbid them be given the motivation to by being turned down by Tex or Manny like the Phils did here with Ibanez. I’m sure the front office will stick by their plan and I do trust them, but it seems with 5 teams in on Tex and several of those teams looking for back up plans already (i.e.. everyone we covet with a bat, stache, or ‘attitude problem’) that we may miss out on our targets. Eh if it happens our FO certainly is familiar with the left overs heap and knows how to use it.
IF only Harry Carey could be arounde for Kosuke.
by CubFanRaysaddict on Dec 12, 2008 10:39 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed, but its a wild perceptions game.
Ibanez is viewed as the nitty gritty gamer type who always gives infinity%. And, there’s a misconception that Ibanez is better defensively than Burrell, which really isn’t true (maybe a marginal improvement, but they both should be DHing.). Ibanez’s flaws are lesser known to the media, as opposed to the flaws of the other DH types.
And you just don't get it, you keep it copacetic...
I think the Rays' troubles with lefties is something of a mirage.
It is true our lineup has 3 positions with lefties only manning them. But it is also true that our two best hitters, Upton and Longoria, are righties, that Iwamura has better stats against lefties than righties and that Navarro, Aybar and Perez are generally better right handed hitters than they are lefties. In essence, the weaknesses against lefties come from Pena (who is poor but not helpless, Crawford (somewhat worse but also not helpless) and either Gross or Joyce (maybe) who may be platooned.
In terms of power, our only real power lefty is Pena, although Joyce may become another, while both Longoria and Upton should provide power from the right side. Given that even with Sabathia in the division we still will face a preponderance of righty starters, and that except for Sabathia and Lester the lefties are not front of the rotation pitchers, I think the concern about not doing well in 2008 against them is somewhat overblown. In fact, it is possible that no AL East team except us will have more than one lefty in the rotation.
I cant find our record vs. LHP last year
but it wasn’t good. Our OPS vs. RHP was .778, and vs. LHP .726. That is a substantial difference. I dont think you are taking into account Loogy’s and how other teams held back their lefties for our series last year.
one game over .500 vs LHP
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/AL_2008_standings.shtml
…wow 30 games over .500 compared to …1
IF only Harry Carey could be arounde for Kosuke.
by CubFanRaysaddict on Dec 12, 2008 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
Zeroing in on a very specific weakness and doing whatever it takes to rectify said weakness is a great way to waste a whole boatload of money.
by Aaron Campeau on Dec 13, 2008 12:35 AM EST up reply actions
getting an established hitter is all anyone is asking for
all of the hitters mentioned would bring more than just more wins against LHP, but if that is identified as a weakness why not get a guy who can solve that problem and be valuable beyond facing lefties
IF only Harry Carey could be arounde for Kosuke.
by CubFanRaysaddict on Dec 13, 2008 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
If the guy you sign addresses a weakness, awesome.
But it’s dumb to overpay for Burrell because he addresses a minor weakness. He’s going to be expensive, he’s going to want a contract that’s too long and he can’t play defense. He’s going to get a bad team from someone, but he’s an especially terrible fit for a team with the Rays financial constraints.
Dumb teams fixate on one weakness and throw money at said weakness; look at the Mets. They lost some games late down the stretch last year so they gave K-Rod a boatload of cash and traded seven players for J.J. Putz. Even though they can afford it, it’s still dumb. The Rays are a smart team, and smart teams improve in any way possible. Even great teams have exploitable weaknesses; they just make up for them by having enough talent to compensate.
by Aaron Campeau on Dec 13, 2008 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
Couldn't agree more
Two years should be the max in my eyes for any of these sluggers if the Rays can land them and defense is a definite consideration
IF only Harry Carey could be arounde for Kosuke.
by CubFanRaysaddict on Dec 13, 2008 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
I recognize that last year our record was poorer against lefties than righties.
My point is there is no reason to think that trend should continue. Iwamura has a better line against lefties in his career as do Navarro and Aybar while the performance of Upton was probably not standard. Early in the year Longoria also did poorly against lefties which should not be standard either. We need to be careful not to overreact to what may have been a 1 year phenomenon.
Mirage was the wrong word. The record last year was no mirage; it happened. But it was probably also not a symptom of a fundamental problem.
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