2009 Draft

by Jombari on Dec 17, 2008 5:13 PM EST

Surprised we haven't covered anything about next years draft. I'm sure mainly because we arent picking in the top 5, but it would be nice to get some coverage going. Anybody have any idea of who could possibly the Rays could be looking at towards the bottom of the draft bucket this year?

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Brian Goodwin?

by R.J. Anderson on Dec 17, 2008 5:28 PM EST reply actions

It's way too far away to be making predictions if you don't have a top 10 pick

Any guesses now would be worthless by the end of April, much less mid-June.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Dec 17, 2008 5:29 PM EST reply actions

I would like to see either a college 1B or a High School OFer

by Dbullsfan on Dec 17, 2008 6:13 PM EST reply actions

Eh I want a college hitter that plays any position except 3B

As for SS…… who knows with Brignac and Beckham is so far away

by joeybw on Dec 17, 2008 6:44 PM EST up reply actions

ALWAYS

Draft for best talent, not for need. Maybe 1% of the time you make an exception, and you can use it as a tiebreaker if all other things are equal, but in MLB, always draft for talent.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Dec 17, 2008 7:06 PM EST up reply actions

also true

It’s just gonna be a little disappointing if get yet ANOTHER SP. I guess more trade bait, if nothing else.

by joeybw on Dec 17, 2008 7:08 PM EST up reply actions

Late rounds are a different story

After the 5th round or so, you can start drafting for need on lottery tickets. I strongly disagree with the Rays’ philosophy of drafting so many pitchers. Sure, the system is now loaded with pitchers, and there are a few surprise late round picks who are turning out well, but we’re also just extraordinarily lacking in balance in the minors, and there’s no pipeline of hitting talent if someone gets injured. I wouldn’t mind so much if the front office didn’t seem so unwilling to trade prospect arms for bats, but they just seem unwilling to do so, based on what’s leaked of the Nady / Bay / Hermida / etc. talks.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Dec 17, 2008 9:24 PM EST up reply actions

They're not unwilling to deal arms.

But they really want to get serious talent in return. They are very clearly huge fans of Davis and Hellickson. But if the right deal came around, they’d do it. Problem is, the guys they would trade away their elite talent for are few and far between. I mean honestly, how many elite, young outfielders (which is really our only need) are on the market? The answer, as far as I can tell is zero.

Tools Whore

Sign Bonds!

by Tyler on Dec 17, 2008 9:45 PM EST up reply actions

They never seem to be on the market

But that doesn’t mean trades don’t happen. Cameron Maybin (and Andrew Miller) wasn’t on the market until the Tigers had an opportunity to trade for a year of Miguel Cabrera (which when you take the difference in talents involved, seems like a worse deal than Hellickson +1 for Bay to me). Delmon Young wasn’t on the market before the Garza trade was announced. Jeremy Reed (who was a top 20 prospect at the time) wasn’t on the market until a half-season of Freddy Garcia became available. Matt LaPorta (still nominally a LF prospect) wasn’t available until a half season of Sabathia was offered. Jeremy Hermida, who was a top 5 prospect in baseball a few years ago and has shown some promise, was/is on the market.

The reverse of most of these scenarios should be true. You don’t see teams trading young good pitchers for impact hitters to often simply because most teams don’t have a stockpile of young pitchers like we do.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Dec 17, 2008 10:49 PM EST up reply actions

Who wouldn't be huge fans of Davis/Hellboy

Conceivably, they could still be under team control in 2015 or 2016.

Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.

~George Costanza~

by Sandy Kazmir on Dec 18, 2008 10:04 AM EST up reply actions

But conceivably neither one could be above average

It’s not all that unheard of. There’s an allocation of risk involved that people seem to forget about sometimes in the prospect/established player equation.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Dec 18, 2008 1:08 PM EST up reply actions

Don't make me post another picture of Brazelton

I remember reading somewhere that Billy Beane was now looking at over-valued prospects as one of the greater market inefficiencies currently going. It certainly seems to show up with the Holliday trade. Hype is a beautiful thing.

Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.

~George Costanza~

by Sandy Kazmir on Dec 18, 2008 2:02 PM EST up reply actions

Read some of the old BA chats, it's hilarious.

Waechter, Brazelton, and McClung were the projected front end of our rotation.

by R.J. Anderson on Dec 18, 2008 2:21 PM EST up reply actions

They were no worse prospects than Davis/Hellickson/McGee right now.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Dec 18, 2008 2:24 PM EST up reply actions

And I've said before

there’s a LOT of similarity between Davis and Waechter.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Dec 18, 2008 2:24 PM EST up reply actions

All 3 of those guys were rushed

No?

Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.

~George Costanza~

by Sandy Kazmir on Dec 18, 2008 3:08 PM EST up reply actions

I think that's fair to say

As were Gaudin, Kennedy, etc. Nobody really too their sweet time in climbing up the ladder in the Lamar era. Stark difference in organizational philosophy. I think the correct answer is somewhere in between.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Dec 18, 2008 6:24 PM EST up reply actions

Usually does

Thesis → antithesis → montage

Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.

~George Costanza~

by Sandy Kazmir on Dec 18, 2008 10:39 PM EST up reply actions

Does Wieters have a little brother somewhere that happens to play first?

That’s who I would get.

Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.

~George Costanza~

by Sandy Kazmir on Dec 17, 2008 8:18 PM EST reply actions

I want Price's brother who plays C

So Price can throw to Price. So awesome.

by joeybw on Dec 17, 2008 8:27 PM EST up reply actions

well, if one exsisted, I would want him anyway!

by joeybw on Dec 17, 2008 8:31 PM EST up reply actions

raptors hunt in packs imagine if there were 9 on the field

attendance would plummet

Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.

~George Costanza~

by Sandy Kazmir on Dec 17, 2008 8:33 PM EST up reply actions

It would be awesome when they played petty Herbivore teams, like the Royals.

Mariners ----> Brewers.

by .Taylor on Dec 19, 2008 12:05 AM EST up reply actions

I really want a power hitter

It always seems like there are handfull of college first basemen that fall late into the first round. Though last year it was all pitchers and shortstops. And first round always seems kinda early for outfielders. In fact 2 outfielders were taken in the first round last year. Anyways, just hope its a college hitter who projects as a DH, 1B, or corner outfielder. To take over DH (whoever we sign will likely only be signed for 1-3 years) or 1B (pena will be a FA in 2 years).

by BossmanJunior333 on Dec 18, 2008 12:27 AM EST reply actions

What I really hope

Is that, if the team can’t sign a big DH (hopefully they can), they use the money they save there towards drafting a signability pick, like the Yankees and some other teams have done frequently lately. There’s almost always a top-10 type pick that slides through most or all of the first round due to concerns about their signing demands.

It’s not generally realistic to expect a 28th overall pick to make a major league impact ever, much less a couple years after getting drafted. There are exceptions, but that late usually you get someone who’s low-upside low-risk, or someone who’s high-upside high-risk, but there isn’t too much in between unless you pay a premium.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Dec 18, 2008 1:58 AM EST up reply actions

That can actually happen

Royals drafted like 3 1st rounders because no one wanted to pay them. Hosmer, Melville, and Montgomery are all 1st round, or at least early 2nd round talent that they got later on.

by joeybw on Dec 18, 2008 9:44 AM EST up reply actions

Anyways, just hope its a college hitter who projects as a DH, 1B, or corner outfielder.

The issue there is it seems most college hitters that have any star potential don’t last that late.

I would not be opposed to a power-reliever (the one out of UGA, I believe) that is at most a year away and could serve as a BP ace that is cost-controlled. Then take A LOT of signability concerns and throw money at them.

by rglass44 on Dec 18, 2008 9:59 AM EST up reply actions

You mean like Joshua Fields?

Except we actually sign him before he retires?

If you mean that type of reliever, I am down with that.

by joeybw on Dec 18, 2008 10:20 AM EST up reply actions

Actually, I meant the "other guy."

But it was the “other guy” at Arizona not Georgia. His name is Jason Stoffel, and last year he was stellar. He was the closer on a team that had two other RPs drafted in the 20s. On the year he appeared in 34 games and had 13 saves, 48 IP, a 3 ERA, 34 H, 1HR, 15 BB, and 79 Ks. That’s a 14.8 K/9. He only gave up 8 XBHs in 172 ABA. In other words, he’s silly. Rish now Brewerfan.net has him as the 20th ranked prospect. I doubt he would fall to us, but someone like him would be great. Here’s his profile on the site.

LINK

Here’s a link to their top 30 prospects:
LINK

by rglass44 on Dec 18, 2008 11:13 AM EST up reply actions

Another option: Ben Tootle

While Jason Stoffel is typically considered the top closing prospect available for the 2009 draft, Ben Tootle isn’t that far behind, and may actually profile as more of a true, power closer. He has started in his two years at Jacksonvile State, but his stuff is much more effective in shorter outings. His stuff is highlighted by a mid-to-upper-90s fastball when used in short relief. He does struggle at times to command his fastball given how hard he throws it, but when he’s pumping his heater in the zone it is nearly impossible to hit. It is even more difficult to hit when his slider is working for him. His slider is nasty, a great breaking ball with two-plane break that starts in on right-handed hitters only to break dramatically down and away. Tootle has a smaller but chiseled frame and employs a huge leg kick as part of his delivery that makes him somewhat similar to Troy Percival. He also has the same kind of Percival stare, giving him an added intimidating element on the mound to go along with his stuff. His leg kick would need to be toned down significantly if any team wanted to try and develop him as a starter, as he doesn’t pitch as well out of the stretch, which makes him relatively easy to steal bases off of. He was a relative unknown before his successful stint on the Cape last summer in which he was named one of the league’s top prospects by the scouts that covered the circuit, and definitely will be drawing more and more attention next spring. He could vault up draft boards similar to Casey Weathers in 2007, although his level of competition isn’t as great.

From Brewerfan.net

by rglass44 on Dec 18, 2008 11:16 AM EST up reply actions

I agree about drafting a closer

It would really be nice having someone young and talented in the pipeline. It would be really nice if we could get one of those two guys.

I still say though that a college power hitter or reliever. The hitters usually taken in the first round are at key positions (SS, 2B, 3B, C, CF) and are athletic and versitile. Getting a solid power hitter, with limited athletic ability and position flexability shouldnt be too hard. Any guy the profiles as a DH or below average fielder is never going to be too desireable. I know we cant expect to get a Smoak or Alonzo though. It would be nice if a caliber hitter like that fell our way though.

by BossmanJunior333 on Dec 18, 2008 12:38 PM EST up reply actions

I'm all bout it

Just because I want a player on my team named Tootle. I don’t even want to think of what his cheering section would dress up as.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Dec 18, 2008 1:09 PM EST up reply actions

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.

~George Costanza~

by Sandy Kazmir on Dec 18, 2008 11:02 AM EST reply actions

Getting those guys can't be that easy

The Yanks have had an obvious need for the same type players – power corner OF’s and 1B’s – given the predicable departure dates of Giambi and virtually the entire OF after ‘09. Yet they haven’t drafted a 1B in the first 15 rounds, and just a handful of OF’s – which aren’t profiling as power types – in the first 10 rounds, in any of the last 3 drafts. They’ve been drafting low in round 1 plus a number of supplemental picks, gone for signability picks, and keeping coming up with RH pitchers and middle IF’s in early rounds. The only “need” position they’ve addressed directly is C – though you could argue that Montero or Suttle (3B) in low A could shift to 1B.

Of course, what you can get is dependant on what’s available, and NY has focused on pitching (like Tampa) in their drafts. Say what you will about NY’s drafts, but their org pitching has been very good for a couple of years, so their plan seems to be playing out. But it does appear coming up with the power corner bats is easier said than done.

by nyyfaninlaaland on Dec 19, 2008 2:37 PM EST reply actions