MV-JB

by R.J. Anderson on Dec 2, 2008 4:45 PM EST Comment 48 comments

Shortstop Jason Bartlett was voted the Rays' most valuable player, and he was a big part in Tampa Bay's improbable run to the World Series.

Now the Rays are willing to trade him, according to a baseball official who has spoken to the Rays. Not only that, but the Rays have also discussed trying to reacquire Delmon Young, the outfielder who they traded to the Twins last winter to get Bartlett and Matt Garza.

It doesn't appear that the Young talks got very far, and neither did Tampa Bay's efforts to acquire Denard Span, another Twins outfielder. But the Rays are continuing to search everywhere for another outfielder, and Bartlett could be what it takes to acquire one.

Most defensive metrics were down on Bartlett this season, despite loving him before. I'm assuming that's due to a knee injury and he'll bounce back. The funny thing is, I wonder if a team would actually buy into Bartlett being the reason for the Rays success and overpay because of it. Trading Bartlett would kill the Rays. Despite what I've said in the past, others who said I simply wasn't paying attention were right. Did anyone see our win-loss record without JB? Man, oh man.

The good news is the Rays are being quite creative in their search for a new outfielder. Bartlett is hardly irreplaceable, and if the Rays can use the "MVP" label to sell high, by all means they should do so. I'll try and dig up some defensive data on Reid Brignac in the meanwhile.

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Do it

Trade Bartlett for an OF and let Reid be the everyday SS. From all accounts Brignac has improved tremendously on D and his offense is much better than Bartlett’s.

I agree just say no to Delmon.

by Tommy Rancel on Dec 2, 2008 4:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I was hoping Brignac won the job next spring, it would say more about him than Bartlett.

If not, hi Cesar Izturis.

by R.J. Anderson on Dec 2, 2008 4:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

"and his offense is much better than Bartlett's"

That’s just flat wrong, at this point.

Brignac 2008, in Durham (a hitter’s park in AAA): .250/.299/.412
Bartlett 2008, in the majors and not exactly the best hitting season of his career: .286/.329/.361

Translate Brignac’s performance last year to the majors, and he’s about a .575 OPS hitter. Hopefully someday (maybe even next year) he’ll be a better hitter, but right now he’s just not.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Dec 2, 2008 7:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, I don't believe it but IF it hapened

Matt Garza
Eduardo Morlan (hopefully)

for

Brenden Harris
Jason Pridle

That’s the deal in the end. Wow.

by joeybw on Dec 2, 2008 4:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I dont think the Rays offered Bartlett to the Twins for Delmon. I think that's separate

by Tommy Rancel on Dec 2, 2008 4:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

They need to discuss reacquiring Elijah Dukes not Delmon

by Tommy Rancel on Dec 2, 2008 4:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Elijah!

Top Josh Paul Pornos- Big Navi Stroking, 2pitchers1cup, BJ to the Balls, Riggans Your Thingans
09: This one is for all the rings.

by SRQman on Dec 2, 2008 9:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Neimann, EJax and Bartlett for Rasmus

DO IT.

Rays 2009 Slogan: "Come back with your shield or on it"

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Dec 2, 2008 4:54 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I wish

Rays 2009 Slogan: "Come back with your shield or on it"

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Dec 2, 2008 4:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

too much

by Ben Tumbling on Dec 2, 2008 4:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I say no to Delmon, Span AND Rasmus

We are finally in win now mode and Rasmus wont be impact til at least 2010 If we are gonna trade those 3, how about a proven OF, not for one with potential

by joeybw on Dec 2, 2008 4:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

eh, was Rasmus not "Major League Ready" for the 08 season? I thought the only reason why

he was not getting PT was becaue LaRussa hates rookies.

Rays 2009 Slogan: "Come back with your shield or on it"

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Dec 2, 2008 5:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, but Rasmus then put up a weak season in the minors

before getting hurt to end the season.

He’ll probably start the season off in AAA.

Jon Garland, pleasepleaseplease accept arbitration. Your mad iNNiNgZ eAtEr sKiLLz will be greater exemplified in next year's free agent class. kthxbai.

by Blicks on Dec 2, 2008 10:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

ill take delmon back, how about bartlett and jackson.

everything Rays,Marlins,Twins and Reds

by RaysOfHope on Dec 2, 2008 4:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

What would you get?

Gomez? You would have to completely reverse the trade in order to get it back close, and then what?

I am unsure about that one.

Joe

by joedobr on Dec 2, 2008 4:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

M-V-P!

Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.

by P Brady on Dec 2, 2008 5:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Bartlett and change for Fred Lewis plz.

Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.

by P Brady on Dec 2, 2008 5:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

The more I think about this, the more I hate it

IF it happened, our 2009 SS would be

Ben Zobrist (we can all agree on ewww)
Reid Brignac(Looked lost in the majors and even in AAA)
Willy Aybar(I think he now has 2 career starts at SS and I don’t want him there.)

It moves the hole from RF to SS and Young plugging the hole at RF is quite debatable.

by joeybw on Dec 2, 2008 5:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

heh or please do not tell me

They would consider playing Longo at SS and Aybar at 3B.

I just want to keep our starters, we can put Aybar in RF and Giambi/Bradley at DH, thanks.

by joeybw on Dec 2, 2008 5:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It doesnt say they discussed Bartlett for Delmon

It says the Rays are open to trading Bartlett and that they have also discussed trying to reacquire Delmon Young. It also doesn’t say there was an offer to Minny and that “it doesn’t appear that the Young talks got very far.”

I can’t find one negative to trading Bartlett or Bartlett + if we get an everyday RF in return. Brignac was a unanimous pick for best defensive SS in the IL. And as bad as he was offensively in 2008, he was still leading the IL in doubles when he was called up.

by Tommy Rancel on Dec 2, 2008 5:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I misread it

Still wouldnt wanna trade Barty til Brignac at least owns ST or AAA no matter who its for.

Briggy will bring the D but as an everyday bat, he worries me.

by joeybw on Dec 2, 2008 6:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And Barty did?

Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.

by P Brady on Dec 2, 2008 6:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Bartlett was a below average hitter

Wont fight that

Brignac is completely unproven. I will gladly eat crow if he gets a chance and hits well.

As far as the D goes, if he keeps improving, he has a chance to be better than Barty.

Since the Bartlett deal and the Young/Span talks are separate, I wonder who we want for Barty.

by joeybw on Dec 2, 2008 6:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Barty was -9.8 RV600

Brignac would have to be pretty bad to match that.

by R.J. Anderson on Dec 2, 2008 6:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

ok fine, as long as he hits well

Bartlett was one of the very few on our team that hit lefties well and he was a good base runner. Also, we seemed to be much better when he wasn’t hurt.

Anyway, what do you think the return for him will be? Maybe a good reliever? Because as far as the hitting goes, I am fine with.

C Navarro
1B Pena
2B Iwamura
SS Brignac(Still prefer him to Zobrist)
3B Longoria
LF Crawford
CF Upton
RF Aybar/Nando/Gross
DH Giambi!

if Barty can bring us a good reliever, then we wont have many holes.

SP Kaz – Shields – Garza – Price – Sonny
RP Guy they get for Barty(lefty I would hope) – Bradford – Niemann – Edwin – Howell – Wheeler – Balfour

DL – Percival

I would take it.

by joeybw on Dec 2, 2008 6:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

and yes, I know Percy is supposed to be ready for opening day

but he will be on the DL before we know it, either that or we trade Edwin and Percy takes that spot.

by joeybw on Dec 2, 2008 6:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He is though

Outside of one crazy season in the Cal League, Brignac’s been a pretty shitty hitter his entire minor league career.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Dec 2, 2008 7:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Quite possibly the most interesting trade idea I've read...

The Rays front office is far more creative than I am. I have never even thought about reaquiring DY, but it makes a lot of sense. Also, Bartlett probably is a fairly valuable trading chip right now. Maybe that’s why the Rays were unwilling to trade Brignac this year.

by save_the_trop on Dec 2, 2008 6:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Ummm, a crazy idea but hear it out

We trade Bartlett for a RF or lefty
We trade Edwin for the RF or lefty that we didn’t get
Put Aybar at DH

And….for the crazy part

The rumor has been the A’s, Giants and a “mystery team” want Furcal.

What if we spend all our money on Furcal for SS?

RF hole filled
DH hole filled
Pen problems fixed.
No SS hole.

C Dioner Navarro
1B Carlos Pena
2B Akinori Iwamura
SS Rafael Furcal
3B Evan Longoria
LF Carl Crawford
CF B.J Upton
RF Guy that the “executive of the year” gets
DH Willy Aybar

Kazmir – Shields – Garza – Price – Sonny

Niemann – New Lefty – Percival(i know, it sucks) – Bradford – Wheeler – Howell – Aussie

Sounds crazy at first but just think about it. There has always been talk of a “mystery team” Why are we considering trading Bartlett? It would be only one signing, we can afford it.

Any takers?

by joeybw on Dec 2, 2008 7:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

nah

i want a bat… no need for furcal

by daveh33 on Dec 3, 2008 1:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Furcal can hit.

Rays 2009 Slogan: "Come back with your shield or on it"

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Dec 3, 2008 8:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

just for reference

the last 3 seasons furcal had at least 600 PA, he OPS’d 774, 813, and 689…. last year he went nutso in about 150 ab… but we dont want to pay for that , do we?

by daveh33 on Dec 3, 2008 2:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Furcal hits well when he's not on the DL

And opposing pitchers would die from all those SBs (BJ, CC, and Furcal).

The DL part is just the bad part. And the “will the Rays throw 12+ MM at one player this offseason” part.

Jon Garland, pleasepleaseplease accept arbitration. Your mad iNNiNgZ eAtEr sKiLLz will be greater exemplified in next year's free agent class. kthxbai.

by Blicks on Dec 3, 2008 1:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

what I meant was, for that price

I want what we need most, which is a bopper.

someone who will most likely OPS at least 850-900…. someone like Giambi/Bradley …

by daveh33 on Dec 3, 2008 2:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

the Furcal idea was only if we trade Barty

since I don’t like Brignac as much as others.

Giambi is a very nice fit. However, if we are worried about people being on the DL, Bradley shouldn’t be wanted either.

by joeybw on Dec 3, 2008 2:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

On a completely unrelated note

I’ve been meaning to ask who the PTBN for Bradford might be. Any rumors or facts, or did I completely miss something? Maybe they’ll announce after the Rule 5 draft? Just curious – it’s been a long time coming.

by nyyfaninlaaland on Dec 2, 2008 7:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

They have 6 months to name the PBTNL

Might not happen for a while.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Dec 2, 2008 7:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Bartlett may be replacable... But...

He is a solid shortstop under team control for three more years.

Offensively, he had the worst season of his career. Whether his own defensive numbers reflected it or not, the defense and pitching was much improved and he looked to be a large factor.

He won’t get amazing return so why get rid of him? I’d hate to see the Rays replace him with an unknown commodity and then be stuck.

Cesar Izturis? He’s a pretty significant offensive downgrade from Bartlett and I can’t imagine his D is good enough to make up that difference. Plus, he’ll make more than twice what Bartlett will.

by tallyray on Dec 2, 2008 8:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Why the hate on Zobrist above?

He had a pretty impressive year at the plate, all things told. I don’t know how he stacks up defensively, but I was definitely impressed from what I saw of him this year. I do think he’s a better fit as an ultimate utility guy, but in theory I don’t think he’d be a horrible option for SS.

"I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain't never been seen by this generation." - Satchel Paige

by Steve Slowinski on Dec 2, 2008 10:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Zobrist is absolutely horrible defensively at SS.

There’s your answer.

Jon Garland, pleasepleaseplease accept arbitration. Your mad iNNiNgZ eAtEr sKiLLz will be greater exemplified in next year's free agent class. kthxbai.

by Blicks on Dec 2, 2008 10:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And almost certainly a fluke offensively.

by R.J. Anderson on Dec 3, 2008 1:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Okay, so if he's horrible defensively at SS, then I'm not about to say put him at short.

But a fluke offensively? From what I can see, he had a very respectible wOBA (.364), a BB/K ratio (.68) close to BJ’s (.72), and a BABIP of .255 (which was right in line with his 13.5 LD%. What says fluke about all of that to you?

Ah wait…I see it. A 17.4 HR/FB%….damn. Well, Bill James still has him predicted as having a .353 wOBA next year, so that works for me. That’s much more optimistic than Marcels, but if you figure his true value is somewhere in-between, he’s somewhere around league average and that’s not too shaby for a backup.

"I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain't never been seen by this generation." - Satchel Paige

by Steve Slowinski on Dec 3, 2008 10:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not saying he is a fluke...

but RJ certainly could have meant that the BB/K of .68 and the other underlying skills that led to the .364 wOBA were flukes. In other words, he’s just actually no this good and had a nice hot streak.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Dec 4, 2008 12:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

How about Bartlett and Niemann/Jackson to the Dodgers for Andre Ethier

Let’s see. Dodgers probably won’t spend much this offseason, holes to fill on the club, time for Ned to get on the phone with other teams. Oh, and they need a SS. And a pitcher

And, Ned COlletti is NOT smart.

Jon Garland, pleasepleaseplease accept arbitration. Your mad iNNiNgZ eAtEr sKiLLz will be greater exemplified in next year's free agent class. kthxbai.

by Blicks on Dec 2, 2008 10:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Rays might need to add more though, but it wouldn't be significant stuff.

Jon Garland, pleasepleaseplease accept arbitration. Your mad iNNiNgZ eAtEr sKiLLz will be greater exemplified in next year's free agent class. kthxbai.

by Blicks on Dec 2, 2008 10:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

This is probably all substance-fueled ramblings though.

Jon Garland, pleasepleaseplease accept arbitration. Your mad iNNiNgZ eAtEr sKiLLz will be greater exemplified in next year's free agent class. kthxbai.

by Blicks on Dec 2, 2008 10:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

my 2 cents

I like the idea of trading with St. Louis but do it for their “trade high” guy.

Jackson/Barty/Ruggiano for Ludwick

by Dbullsfan on Dec 3, 2008 11:44 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Bartlett might have more trade value

because he would come so cheap, and the 3 control years.

But for the life of me I don’t see why you’d want to trade him. He isn’t a stock – and you wouldn’t necessarily be selling high. And you’ve got no ready replacement. Guess you’re just short of stuff to talk about.

Now 3 open rotation spots – that’s something to talk about.

by nyyfaninlaaland on Dec 4, 2008 1:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs