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DRays Bay Community Prospect #12

Matthew Moore stomps all over everyone to take #11.

Star-divide

DRaysBay Community Top 25:

  1. David Price (LHP)
  2. Wade Davis (RHP)
  3. Tim Beckham (SS)
  4. Jeremy Hellickson (RHP)
  5. Reid Brignac (SS)
  6. Desmond Jennings (CF)
  7. Jacob McGee (LHP)
  8. Jeff Niemann (RHP)
  9. Fernando Perez (CF)
  10. Nick Barnese (RHP)
  11. Matthew Moore (LHP)

A list of players who may potentially garner consideration, especially if we decide to go deeper than 25 (please let me know in the comments if you think there is anyone else who should be added):

C: John Jaso, Jacob Jeffries, Mike McCormick, Matt Spring, Nevin Ashley, Mark Thomas

1B: Rhyne Hughes, Gabriel Martinez, Eligio Sonoqui, Michael Sheridan

2B: Elliot Johnson, Elias Otero, Josh Asanovich, Jeremy Beckham

SS: Neil Walton, Sean O'Malley

3B: Chris Nowak, Burt Reynolds, Greg Sexson

Corner OF: Ryan Royster, Justin Ruggiano, Sergio Pedroza, Reid Fronk, KD Kang, Jason Corder

CF: John Matulia, Emeel Salem, Anthony Scelfo, DJ Jones, Ty Morrison

RHP: Alex Cobb, Heath Rollins, Ryan Reid, Greg Dupas, Wade Townsend, Matthew Walker, Richard De Los Santos, Mitch Talbot, Christopher Mason, Tyree Hayes, Marquis Fleming, Joseph Cruz, Albert Suarez, Will Kline, Derek Rodriguez, Dale Thayer, Austin Hinkle

LHP:  James Houser, Chuck Tiffany, Michael Wlodarczyk, Glenn Gibson, Kyle Lobstein, David Newmann

Poll
Who is the Rays' #12 prospect?
John Jaso
32 votes
Mitch Talbot
20 votes
Justin Ruggiano
6 votes
Kyle Lobstein
13 votes
Reid Fronk
1 votes
Alex Cobb
1 votes
James Houser
1 votes
Ryan Royster
0 votes
Albert Suarez
0 votes
Other (Please specify)
3 votes

77 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 44 comments

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Comments

Display:

Talbot

www.raysprospects.com
Trade for Billy Butler!

by Imperialism32 on Dec 22, 2008 7:03 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I go back and forth between the two

I feel like Talbot is pretty much a lock to be a league-average reliever or a league-average #4 (i.e. an ERA+ around 90 as a starter), which is still useful, while I feel like Jaso’s upside is still much higher. However, if Jaso can’t stick at catcher, then Talbot is clearly more valuable in my mind. Jaso’s just not a good enough hitter to stick at 1B or DH long-term, and from what little I’ve seen he’s not a good enough defender to start at catcher full-time. Supposedly his defense keeps improving from year to year, so I rated Jaso ahead of Talbot based on the presumption that he’ll get to the point where his defense is passable for a decent hitting catcher. Otherwise, he probably goes a fair amount down the list.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Dec 22, 2008 7:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Finally, I don't have to vote for Moore

I am going with Jaso, slight edge over Tabolt

I love Lobstein but he didn’t pitch 1 inning after being drafted, if we do this again next season, I can see him being in the top 10.

Evan Longoria and David Price - the fight for my heart

by joeybw on Dec 22, 2008 7:50 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Lobstein in the top 10 next year

I think that’s more likely than not. We’ll have to see how well his stuff comes back though. He was the top HS pitcher after his junior year, but then his velocity dropped as a senior. Other recent draftees who were the top HS pitcher as a junior then had problems and their stock dropped have turned out to be pretty decent (Nick Adenhart, Jordan Walden, etc.)

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Dec 22, 2008 10:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Quick random guess at next year's top 10

1. Wade Davis – Much like Price, dominates the minors and shows promise in a September bullpen stint
2. Nick Barnese – Breaks out in a huge way with Bowling Green
3. Tim Beckham – Solid yet unspectacular season
4. Jeremy Hellickson – Not as good as 2008, but still good
5. Desmond Jennings – Stays healthy, at least
6. Kyle Lobstein – Our best lower-level pitcher
7. (Our 2009 first-round pick)
8. Matt Moore – Injury costs him at least 2 months at some point, decent-as-best the rest of the season.
9. Jake McGee – Velo doesn’t come back right away, gets hit pretty hard
10. Ty Morrison – Hits .300 and steals bases for Princeton

Losing eligiblity: Price, Brignac, Talbot, Jaso, Niemann

www.raysprospects.com
Trade for Billy Butler!

by Imperialism32 on Dec 23, 2008 12:10 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

And by “best low-level pitcher” for Lobstein, I mean short-season. And that should say “decent-at-best” for Moore.

www.raysprospects.com
Trade for Billy Butler!

by Imperialism32 on Dec 23, 2008 12:18 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I have some changes

1. Wade Davis – I agree, pulls a Price
2. Jeremy Hellickson – Spends time in AA and AAA, continuing his great BB/K ratio
3. Tim Beckham – Really starts showing off his skills, decent power, very good speed, good D in his first full season
4. Nick Barnese – Finally gets a chance at full season ball and does pretty damn well at it
5. Desmond Jennings – IF he can stay healthy, I think he will get promoted to AA early in the year and really shows his promise
6. Matt Moore – Good season but a little dissapointing, not as good as we hoped in full season debut
7. Kyle Lobstein – Absolute stud but with only short season ball and being so far away, he wont be higher than 7
8. Reid Brignac – Still playing in AAA, hasn’t had his chance still
9. Jacob McGee – Still trying to find his control, gets moved to the pen full time, velocity is very much back, though.
10. D.J Jones – My bold prediction, he will probably only be in Hudson Valley but he will really improve after well….sucking last season

Just Missing: Jacob Jeffries, Health Rollins, Alex Cobb, Ty Morrison……many others.

Evan Longoria and David Price - the fight for my heart

by joeybw on Dec 23, 2008 9:21 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Just throwing a suggestion out there

Do whatever you want of course but I think Hughes should at least be on the list next round, after a AFL, I am much more up on him

Evan Longoria and David Price - the fight for my heart

by joeybw on Dec 22, 2008 7:58 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

after a amazing AFL*

Evan Longoria and David Price - the fight for my heart

by joeybw on Dec 22, 2008 7:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I can test him in the next poll

My take is nice defender, not enough bat to play 1B.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Dec 22, 2008 10:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Lyle Overbay/Corie Koskie (I know Koskie played 3B and was faster)

nice (but not great) doubles power and is a plus (but not gold glove) defender

upside of 20 HR – .280/.350/.450 in his prime (Koskie averaged 20 HR and a .275/.367/.458 line. I think its a fair projection if Hughes hits his upside for 3 or 4 years).
 
downside of AAAA player.

by Navi's_Navy on Dec 23, 2008 3:04 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Talbot

Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.

by P Brady on Dec 22, 2008 8:10 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Even if Talbot wins here

So many pitchers with true potential will be left (Among many, I really like Rollins and Cobb) and as I mentioned, I think Lobstein will be awesome.

We are so loaded. Now that I am being done being captain obvious, time to go back to waiting for the signing of the awesome DH.

Evan Longoria and David Price - the fight for my heart

by joeybw on Dec 22, 2008 8:13 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Nice 3 way battle here so far

Once Moore won, I knew this would get real interesting.

Evan Longoria and David Price - the fight for my heart

by joeybw on Dec 22, 2008 8:43 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Nah

Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.

by P Brady on Dec 22, 2008 9:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i still really have no clue who otero is

everything Rays,Marlins,Twins and Reds
who needs k-rod for 37 million when you can have d-rod for 50k?
twins sign ty wigginton ASAP!!!!

by RaysOfHope on Dec 22, 2008 11:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

me either

I am a awesome fan

Evan Longoria and David Price - the fight for my heart

by joeybw on Dec 23, 2008 9:22 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Talbot

It’s gotta be him here.

Year Team Age FIP
2006 Astros (AA) 22 2.81
2006 Rays (AA) 22 2.81
2007 Rays (AAA) 23 4
2008 Rays (AAA) 24 3.03

by rglass44 on Dec 23, 2008 10:10 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I like Talbot and all

but what was his major league stats this season? SSS, I know but he simply didn’t look good out there.

Evan Longoria and David Price - the fight for my heart

by joeybw on Dec 23, 2008 10:21 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I did say SSS

I didn’t realize it was that little though.

Either way, my problem wasn’t whatever his stats were this season, he wasn’t fooling anyone.

However, I can see him improving if he is given a real chance this season.

Evan Longoria and David Price - the fight for my heart

by joeybw on Dec 23, 2008 11:05 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Brignac is overrated too

IMO

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Dec 23, 2008 1:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Depends on my mood

At one point I had him outside the top 10.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Dec 23, 2008 2:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I have to buy into his defense

To get him up to where he is. I’ve read that his defense is good, but from what I’ve seen, it looks below average (and there isn’t enough major league data to make a determination one way or the other). Based on what he’s done in the minors, I think his most likely offensive path is to be a hitter similar to Juan Uribe (i.e. .250/.300/.420 with 15 – 20 HRs), which at the end of the day is still a below average offensive starting shortstop because of the horrible on-base skills. If he can play above-average defense, then he can keep a job that way, but if his defense sucks like I sometimes think it does, then he’s basically decent-hit no-field backup shortstop (like a rich man’s Ben Zobrist). Those types usually don’t survive for very long unless they’re ultraversitile, because managers want a good defender backing up the middle infield.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Dec 24, 2008 11:30 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Im still pulling for Jaso here

but my endorsement is really only valid if he stays at catcher. Still, having the sexiest BB/K ratio and plate discipline in the Rays system is hard not to like. To me, plate discipline translates well to the majors eventually and his power potential, even if he just turns into a gap hitter, is above average for a catcher. He will probably never be an above average defensive catcher, but if he can be solid behind the plate (limit errors, mental mistakes, control the pitching staff, block balls), then I think his stick makes his an above average mlb catcher. Possibly a 275/.350/.440 line with 15+ HR. If he spends another year at Durham, we could possibly looking at Navi’s replacement as soon as 2010. Navi is still young, but by then will be in his second year of arbitration and making 4-5 mil.

by BossmanJunior333 on Dec 23, 2008 4:17 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

His arm also seems to be pretty good

2007 AA he threw out 35 percent of basestealers, 2008 AA 28 percent, 2008 AAA 20 percent (smallest sample size)

At worst, he could always be an above average back up in 2010, and get some occasional at bats at DH or 1B.

by BossmanJunior333 on Dec 23, 2008 4:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Navi's actually younger than Jaso even

But I mostly agree. If he can turn into a good enough defensive catcher, he’ll probably be a better hitter than most catchers out there. His upside is still as a Michey Tettleton type, but there’s still a very high probability he ends up in Matt LeCroy land. LeCroy is certainly the player he most reminds me of, unfortunately. If he was a decent defender, he’d probably be my #5 though.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Dec 23, 2008 5:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

ehhh

LeCroy was fat though. I have seen Jaso in person and he definately looks like he is in good shape. I wonder if any of Jaso’s past injuries are at all related to being a catcher, or whether they are completely non-related. If so, I have a hard time believing durability behind the plate is a huge concern.

by BossmanJunior333 on Dec 23, 2008 6:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Just checked

and it says he has had injuries to his throwing shoulder, but still doesnt say whether it happened as a result of throwing the ball or hitting. Says he has a very strong arm, but poor footwork and release limit is throwing ability. However, it says he made great strides this past season on all facets and is continuing to improve the more time he gets behind the plate. As long as he is healthy, he should get the majority of the starts next year in Durham and we can see what hes got. BA liked him enough to say he would be our everyday DH in 2012.

by BossmanJunior333 on Dec 23, 2008 6:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

jaso kinda reminds me of aj piernyski

bad defense/arm but has a good bat

everything Rays,Marlins,Twins and Reds
who needs k-rod for 37 million when you can have d-rod for 50k?
twins sign ty wigginton ASAP!!!!

by RaysOfHope on Dec 23, 2008 10:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

As long as his attitude is very different.....

Evan Longoria and David Price - the fight for my heart

by joeybw on Dec 23, 2008 10:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

doesnt his skill set kinda remind you of him though?

aj is a complete dumbass and i still want to drill him for that stupid fake bumping into willy aybar that resulted in him not being out and awarded 3rd

everything Rays,Marlins,Twins and Reds
who needs k-rod for 37 million when you can have d-rod for 50k?
twins sign ty wigginton ASAP!!!!

by RaysOfHope on Dec 23, 2008 10:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

His arm is good

its his footwork and fundementals that are lacking, but that can be fixed. He has obviously been hurt by limited playing time behind the plate due to injuries. He actually has a strong arm and his defense is improving.

by BossmanJunior333 on Dec 23, 2008 10:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

even if he can stick at catcher, what do to do with him?

i have followed navvy since he was a prospect for the NYY and when he got traded here i was very pleased with the trade, and i think that a long term deal is in order for navarro soon, so what to do with jaso then?

everything Rays,Marlins,Twins and Reds
who needs k-rod for 37 million when you can have d-rod for 50k?
twins sign ty wigginton ASAP!!!!

by RaysOfHope on Dec 23, 2008 10:29 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Designated Hitter..

or could he learn 1b if we don’t have one or trade him. You can do a lot of things

Top Josh Paul Pornos- Big Navi Stroking, 2pitchers1cup, BJ to the Balls, Riggans Your Thingans

by SRQman on Dec 23, 2008 11:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Doubt it

While his bat would be above average for a catcher, it would be below average for a 1B or DH. Unless we trade Navi or he is injured, likely to be traded.

by BossmanJunior333 on Dec 24, 2008 12:48 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

as much as i like jaso, he really has no spot on this team in the near future

he is too good to be a backup catcher and doesnt have the bat for a 1b or DH, so i think that he is going to get moved sometime next year or the year after that, depending on what they do with navvy

everything Rays,Marlins,Twins and Reds
who needs k-rod for 37 million when you can have d-rod for 50k?
twins sign ty wigginton ASAP!!!!

by RaysOfHope on Dec 24, 2008 2:52 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

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