Off-season Acquisitions
by BombinRays on Feb 26, 2008 7:59 PM EST
22 comments
Im gonna grade what I think were the top 5 best and worst aquistions so far this off-season.
Lets start off in a good mood.
1. Greg Norton, finnaly Rays Management did something right for a change, thid guy is old, has had knee surgeries, and his time is well spent somewhere else, if a team will take him that is.
Grade- A++
2. Troy Percival, sure this guy is old, he can still pitch the ball, also gives us the opportunity of not using Dan Wheeler as a set-up man.
Grade- A
3. Obviously signing Carlos Pena to a nice extension is gonna be well worth it. Hes easily the fan favorite in Tampa and always will be if he does well. Only problem with this, is his agent is Mike Fischlin, whos owned by the money-hog known as Scott Boras.
Grade- A-
4. Matt Garza, this was a heavy price to pay for thid guy, we had to give up Delmon Young, Brendan Harris, and minor-league Justin Pridie, I hope this is a good trade, he struggled in Minnesota, but he was the no.2 in Minnesota in a tough Al Central. I just hope that the Yanks and Sox don't kill him.
Grade- B
5. Cliff Floyd, sure this guy might not be a starter if Bonds rolls into town, but brings a nice veteran addition to the team, and can play RF when we trade away Rocco, and play 1st when Pena needs a day off.
Grade B-
Now lets get to the bad.
1. Trading away our core in trading away Young, Harris, and Pridie for Garza, Bartlett, and Eduardo Morlan. Garza should do well, but Bartlett is just a quick fix until Reid Brignac is ready in 09. Morlan won't be up this year unless he blows away Montgomery and Durham.
How bad was this trade for Tampa, bad
Grade- A
2. Not releasing Ben Zobrist, the supposed jewel of the Astros organization was a flop. Is it too late to knock on the door and ask Huff to come back? This guy lost the starting job this year to Harris, didnt do well when he started last year as the SS, and is know looking for a job as the utility man.
Grade B+
3. Trading Ty Wigginton for Dan Wheeler, I might be a little pre-mature with arguing this trade but, Wiggy was the greatest thing to happen to Tampa since the Lightning won the Stanley Cup. We got this guy from off the streets just looking for a job, and what do you know, hes a fan favorite, plays every position, even can be an emergency catcher if needed.
Grade- B
4. Not re-signing Raul Casanova, right off the bat, this guy wasn't great, wasn't terrible either but provided stability to the catcher role, he had good power from the plate and decent defence. Without thid guy, we were forced to sign Josh Paul back, sign Mike DeFelice, and Hecotr Gimenez.
Grade- D
5. The biggy now, our failure to sign Kaz to a long deal, why the hell didn't we sign him to a 3-yr deal like Pena? This guy is the reason the mets had to trade for Johan Santana, this guy is the jewel of tampa, and its a shame he isnt signed longer.
Grade- G
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We'll have to disagree on a few things
How bad was this trade for Tampa, bad
Grade- A
You really can't judge this deal either way until the season actually plays out, and Garza outplayed Delmon last year...
2. Not releasing Ben Zobrist, the supposed jewel of the Astros organization was a flop. Is it too late to knock on the door and ask Huff to come back? This guy lost the starting job this year to Harris, didnt do well when he started last year as the SS, and is know looking for a job as the utility man.
Grade B+
Zobrist was never the crown jewel, he was, if I recall right, in the teens of their prospect lists. You kinda forgot the actual piece of the deal, that being Mitch Talbot, and do you really want Huff back? The guy has had two of his worst seasons the last three years.
3. Trading Ty Wigginton for Dan Wheeler, I might be a little pre-mature with arguing this trade but, Wiggy was the greatest thing to happen to Tampa since the Lightning won the Stanley Cup. We got this guy from off the streets just looking for a job, and what do you know, hes a fan favorite, plays every position, even can be an emergency catcher if needed.
Grade- B
Wigginton was a slightly above average ballplayer, at best. Sure he can play a ton of positions, but not well. Don't be so reactionary on the deal, Wheeler is going to revert this year.
4. Not re-signing Raul Casanova, right off the bat, this guy wasn't great, wasn't terrible either but provided stability to the catcher role, he had good power from the plate and decent defence. Without thid guy, we were forced to sign Josh Paul back, sign Mike DeFelice, and Hecotr Gimenez.
Grade- D
Seriously? Outside of power he provided nothing to the roster.
5. The biggy now, our failure to sign Kaz to a long deal, why the hell didn't we sign him to a 3-yr deal like Pena? This guy is the reason the mets had to trade for Johan Santana, this guy is the jewel of tampa, and its a shame he isnt signed longer.
Grade- G
Takes two to tango, Kazmir's not a moron, re-signing now essentially guarantees his lowest value. Nobody in their right mind of his age, talent, and potential signs long term right now.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 26, 2008 8:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Re: We'll have to disagree on a few things
by Cory Alexander on Feb 26, 2008 10:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: We'll have to disagree on a few things
2 right now looks like much ado about nothing, but time is on the Rays side on this one - and the Astros don't have anything to show for the trade.
3 Wheeler isn't guaranteed to revert - that remains a question, but the odds are he isn't going to be what he was for the Rays last season. Wiggy's a nice piece, but he didn't have a long term spot so good deal to make.
4 Casanova? Yawn!
5 Kaz signing. It does take 2 to tango, and long term deals are a lot riskier with young pitchers - the Yanks did Cano, but are holding off on Wang. That said, a deal can get done if the will is there, and I thought going in to the offseason geting Kaz signed to an extension would have been the number 1 sign that there a new sherriff in town. I think extending Kaz is smarter then extending Pena - who was more amenable, and why? Yeah, the Rays have more replacement parts for Kaz, so it's not a big deal. But Kaz could be a perennial CY contender, and is a proven top starter if healthy. Was it simply a question of Kaz maximizing his value, or also the Rays unwillingness to up the ante. Not all deals are going to be so favorable as CC, Rocco, or Shields'. Doesn't mean you can't come to an agreement good for both parties, just takes a higher price tag sometimes.
Pena had a wonderful season, but it could be 50-50 whether his deal is viewed favorably by its end. His season was so good it's hard to imagine it being such an extreme outlier in his career, but he'd never hit over .253 in a season with 100 AB's in the majors (and that in 2002), nor hit over 30 HR total in any full season. And he hasn't missed a ton of time in any season lately with at least 450 AB's every year since 1999. There is at least some risk of a significant tail off here - but damn, it's hard to see that after that last year. Not saying signing Pena was a bad thing - even if it turns out less well than it looks today, it was an important signal (bolstered by the Shields signing, which also leads to the "Why not Kaz?" question) of the Rays intentions to compete. It was a risk, and risks need to be taken.
by nyyfaninlaaland on Feb 27, 2008 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Off-season Acquisitions
by BombinRays on Feb 26, 2008 9:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Off-season Acquisitions
Tell me which you'd rather have:
Delmon: .288/.316/.408 .724 OPS
Gomes: .244/.322/.460 .782 OPS
Gomes defense isn't pretty, but he, like most starting right fielders, hit better than Delmon last year.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 26, 2008 9:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Off-season Acquisitions
The point is you're comparing 2 1/2 season stat sets to a very full season set. The deal itself could prove to be good - Young might just settle in as a .300/.340 /.450 guy, Garza might be a very good 3, and the back end could work out nicely as well. If Bartlett solidifies things in the IF then brings a nice trade return or plays well enough to stave off Brignac (or give him more development time if needed) and Morlan develops into a solid pen piece for the price of 2 likely bench / platoon guys then very good deal. There is an alternative scenario of course.
by nyyfaninlaaland on Feb 27, 2008 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Off-season Acquisitions
2008 Gomes v. 2007 Delmon? Yes, I am.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 27, 2008 2:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Off-season Acquisitions
by nyyfaninlaaland on Feb 27, 2008 2:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Off-season Acquisitions
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 27, 2008 2:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Off-season Acquisitions
But I definitely see a Floyd/Gomes platoon doing significantly better in 2008 than Young did in 2007. Together, I am pretty certain they will hit more than 13 home runs and average better than a .316 OBP.
Of course, that is a DH, not RF platoon, but it likely will fill Young's spot in the lineup. The other variable is Baldelli, and if he can play regularly, I see no reason that he alone would not be at least Young's equal offensively and possibly better defensively.
The key of course is that "if" which also applies to Floyd. Even so, Gomes alone in RF, while a significant downgrade in defense, would give us more power than Young did and a higher OBP. The hit to the offense would not be particularly noticeable if it exists at all. And even if Baldelli &/or Floyd cannot play regularly, the backups of Hinske, Rodriguez and company might also hit as well as Delmon did in 2007.
by bobr on Feb 27, 2008 5:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Off-season Acquisitions
by Brickhaus on Feb 27, 2008 1:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Off-season Acquisitions
by BombinRays on Feb 26, 2008 9:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Off-season Acquisitions
Gomes 67.8
Delmon 68.4
I'll take the guy at the plate who doesn't make more outs in his chances.
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 26, 2008 9:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Off-season Acquisitions
by nyyfaninlaaland on Feb 27, 2008 3:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Off-season Acquisitions
by BombinRays on Feb 26, 2008 9:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Off-season Acquisitions
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 26, 2008 9:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Off-season Acquisitions
by BombinRays on Feb 26, 2008 9:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Off-season Acquisitions
Don't assume Bartlett is merely a stopgap. We all hope that Brignac becomes our starting shortstop, but there is no guarantee. Bartlett is not only insurance against that but even should Brignac pan out could be a useful reserve or perhaps even the second baseman if Iwamura moves on.
There is no question that the Young deal was a gamble, but it was an intelligent one. Any deal may backfire, but that does not mean it was the wrong thing to do. I expect Young to become a star, but he was not a good offensive player last year and his defense was much overrated by fans. I think it just as reasonable to think that Garza will become a star.
Similarly, Harris was a useful ballplayer, but replacing him at shortstop with Bartlett is a major upgrade.
I agree with the other comments R.J. made as well. Every one of those deals makes excellent sense, while the Kazmir issue cannot be placed at the Rays' feet. In any case, it may turn out to be a better move to trade him down the line, an eventuality I do not relish, but one that may still be the proper move.
One more point. Casanova had a nice 79 ABs for the Rays last year. He also had decent if abbreviated seasons in 2000-01, was awful in 2002 and was not in the majors in 2003-04. He then got 5 ABs in 2005 and was not in the majors in 2006. Plus he is not a good defensive catcher. He is currently a non-roster invitee with the Mets and is unlikely to make the team. Releasing him was essentially trivial; he will almost certainly return to his career status of minor league catcher hoping to get called up because of injury.
by bobr on Feb 26, 2008 9:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Off-season Acquisitions
by R.J. Anderson on Feb 26, 2008 10:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Off-season Acquisitions
by bobr on Feb 26, 2008 10:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Off-season Acquisitions
by ttnorm on Feb 26, 2008 11:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Re: Off-season Acquisitions
by Sandy Kazmir on Feb 27, 2008 10:06 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
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