DRaysBay: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
New Blog: The Boxing Bulletin for Boxing Fans!

I have a question...

Would anyone here think that a person with the following stats would help the young Rays hitters. I would also like to know if one would pay to see a guy play with the following stats:

*a 7-time MVP

*a 14 time all star

*an 8 time gold glove award winner

*a 12 time silver slugger award winner

*a two time batting champion

*Lead the NL in OBP 10 times including last season

*a 7-time leader in SLG%

*9 times lead the league in OPS %

*Is the all time career leader in HR's and two time HR champion

* lead the league in walks 12 times, came in 2nd 4 times, and placed 3rd once.

How many more games do you think the Rays would win with a guy that puts up these kind of numbers in the line up?

And we ask should we sign Lofton! Pffffft!

0 recs  |  Comment 40 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Re: I have a question...
Would anyone here think that a person with the following stats would help the young Rays hitters

Not from his barcalounger

by ttnorm on Mar 16, 2008 9:54 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: I have a question...
Trust me, I want Bonds, but I'm not overly optimistic on it happening.

by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2008 11:16 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: I have a question...
Planning on eating Floyd's contract or having Floyd/Bonds play RF?

by ttnorm on Mar 16, 2008 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I have a question...
if you thought Dukes was distraction, what do you think having a player with a federal indictment issue would bring? Hello? Bonds didn't want us when the Giants were going to move. We don't want to try to be the Milwaukee Brewers to his Hank Aaron.
Viva Los RAYniacs!

by thebaddancingraysfan on Mar 16, 2008 2:10 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: I have a question...
I believe it was Derek Jacques at BP who said the trial and such wouldn't come until after the season. Plus Elijah Dukes isn't the greatest player ever.

by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2008 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I have a question...
Just because the trail wouldn't come until after the season, doesn't mean the questions won't come. Don't mean the hecklers won't know. It doesn't mean that nothing will be said until after the season.
Viva Los RAYniacs!

by thebaddancingraysfan on Mar 16, 2008 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I have a question...
Neither has been Bonds for the last few years.

by ttnorm on Mar 16, 2008 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I have a question...
I don't know whether I want Bonds signed or not, but he has definitely been among the best players in the major leagues for the past 2 years. Whether or not he still is playing at the level of a player in the argument as the best player in history, he is still among the best currently playing, and still playing at historically great levels.

by bobr on Mar 16, 2008 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I have a question...
Excuse me for interrupting your hero worship, but BB has not had historic production since 2004.  The guy was 56th in Runs Created and tied for 156th in Total Bases last season.

I think having Bonds in the same clubhouse as Percival might be fun.  I think Percy just might have a few words for BB the first time BB informs Maddon that he is taking a day off.  

by ttnorm on Mar 16, 2008 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I have a question...
He might have a few words for BB when he realizes he gets on-base nearly half of the times he goes up to bat as well.

by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2008 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I have a question...
You're probably right.  It is hard to take Percival seriously when he says stuff like:

"We're here to win, and that's why you play the game. You don't play this game so you can build stats and get paid. I don't look at it that way. ... I don't care how much money you made. It's about going out as a team and winning. I was with a team [the 2002 Angels] that wasn't even close to one of the most talented teams in the league. But we were the best team in the game because we had 25 guys every day for one purpose."

Yeah, I can see him being a Barry guy.  ;-)

On the other hand, the young guys can all aspire to Barry's ethos - "Baseball has not been fun since college."  "It's just my job."

by ttnorm on Mar 16, 2008 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

To sound like a broken record
If more players took the job approach I wonder if we'd see an improved product?

by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2008 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I have a question...
ttnorm, don't misread what I said. There is no hero worship, just enormous respect and admiration for an historically great player. I think we are fortunate to have witnessed some of the greatest players and performances in baseball history, and I refuse to allow self-appointed morality police to sour the experience for me.

I think it perfectly legitimate to be concerned about his clubhouse influence, although there are contradictory views on the reality of that influence, the accuracy of media representations of Bonds and the significance of his influence. I remain unconvinced that any of us know the truth about the sort of man he is, but I am convinced that what we think we know is mediated through a vindictive, hypocritical and sensationalist press.

As for his recent performances, there is little doubt that his overall contributions have been limited by his limited playing time. But in that playing time, he has maintained an exceptionally high level of play. Anyone who finishes with these lines, .270/.454/.545 & .276/.480/.565 is playing at an historically high level. And to go with it are OPS+s of 156 & 170, as well as 26 & 28 home runs. This is in a not inconsiderable 130 & 126 games with 367 & 340 ABs, which when added to 115 & 132 walks plus a few HBPs is near 500 PAs. And notice that with all those walks, he still only struck out 51 & 54 times.

We are not talking remarkable for an old player. We are talking remarkable for any player, with a possibility that DH duties would extend his playing time. If he could produce that way while getting 400 PAs for the Rays, he would dramatically improve the offense.

Again, I am not convinced it would be a good signing. But there is no way to observe his actual production without recognizing that it remains brilliant.

by bobr on Mar 16, 2008 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I have a question...
There is nothing brilliant about a 50's ranking in RC and a 150s ranking in TB.

by ttnorm on Mar 16, 2008 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I have a question...
Perhaps we are both cherry picking the stats to support our points. Essentially, we are now quibbling over minutae, over wording such as "brilliant".

If I may alter the approach a bit, I will assert that considering purely his offensive contributions, whoever Bonds would replace on the roster would not come close to what Bonds would contribute.

You may make any number of reasonable points that a lineup with a RF platoon of Gomes/Floyd with a DH of Bonds is not an optimum use of Gomes and Floyd. You may reasonably argue that even at DH we cannot be sure Bonds will manage 400 PAs, and even if he does, that leaves quite a few to other players. But no matter what configuration available or projected now, even if you include Willits, you cannot reasonably argue it would come
close to matching the offensive output of Gomes/Floyd/Bonds.

Whoever Bonds would replace on the roster-Hinske, Weber, Rodriguez-Guzman-you name him-Bonds will contribute more runs to the Rays' offense. Barring injury, I think that is incontrovertible.

That does not mean the Rays should sign him. There are possible cascade effects to account for. But Bonds remains a powerful offensive force, in my mind a brilliant offensive player.

As I said

by bobr on Mar 16, 2008 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I have a question...
That last "As I said" must have been left over from something I edited out and did not see remaining.

by bobr on Mar 16, 2008 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I have a question...
Whoever Bonds would replace on the roster-Hinske, Weber, Rodriguez-Guzman-you name him-Bonds will contribute more runs to the Rays' offense. Barring injury, I think that is incontrovertible.

There is never a guarantee that a guy his age has anything left.  

There is plenty of objective evidence that he is a me first prima donna and a liar which runs squarely into the teeth of Maddon's philosophy.  (Yeah, I know, the liar part is what you admire him for).  Of course Maddon, Percy, Andrew et al should bow down for the prividge of playing along side of 'history's greatest player'.  We Are One Team! (sometimes).

Eric Hinske had a higher RC in his rookie season than Bonds has had since 2004.

I believe that Friedman has stated that he would like to address this situation.  

There is nothing incontrovertible about adding Bonds to the to this team.  

by ttnorm on Mar 17, 2008 7:12 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I have a question...
In other words, there is no "give" in you, no willingness to consider even the possibility that Bonds can be an asset in any fashion? It is in your mind a fact, a certainty, an unalterable matter of absolutes? This is now, in your mind, dogma, orthodoxy, perfect truth, that Bonds cannot contribute to the Rays? No redeeming qualities?

The vicious, law-breaking, drug and alcohol addled, wife abusing, child deserting, out of shape, prima dona, me-first, irresponsible, rules violating, injury-prone, insubordinate, team & league multiply suspended S.O.Bs like Ruth and Mantle (I am not sure that Mantle was suspended) were negative influences on their team's ability to win. Or perhaps they were more admirable than Bonds?

by bobr on Mar 17, 2008 8:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I have a question...
In other words, there is no "give" in you, no willingness to consider even the possibility that Bonds can be an asset in any fashion? It is in your mind a fact, a certainty, an unalterable matter of absolutes?

Now you have me confused with someone else.  I have never said anything of the sort.  I merely challenged your "incontovertible" notion that Bond's addition would be a plus.  That's not how I see it.  It is entirely possible that Bonds could help the team.  But there are plenty of objective reasons to doubt it.

I'd actually support the notion of signing Bonds to a minor league deal with enough incentives to get him to $8-10MM if he can revert to his 2004 form.  I am sure the Durham fans would get a kick out of seeing him.  

But I am not anxious see the Rays have to eat Floyd's contract or play Floyd in RF for 100+ games.  His 2005 season also had a higher RC than Bond's has had since 2004.   Of course he is not the greatest player in history so he can be thrown under the bus for Bonds.

by ttnorm on Mar 17, 2008 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I have a question...
Then we are both misinterpreting each other. It seems to me that at no point were you willing to accept that Bonds had significant assets. All your comments were negative.

On the contrary, you have wildly exaggerated my points into a kind of farcical rendering, as in the statements above: "I merely challenged your "incontovertible" notion that Bond's addition would be a plus." & "Of course he is not the greatest player in history so he can be thrown under the bus for Bonds." As a matter of fact, as you can see from my other posts, not only have I never said that his addition would "incontrovertibly" be a plus (only that his offensive production would be, something quite different), but that I am not even sure he should be signed. I have repeated that hesitancy over and over.

Part of the reason for my hesitancy is that I want to see Floyd get plenty of at-bats, although from a purely offensive standpoint, I think the chances of him outperforming Bonds as a DH are slight. But purely from an emotional standpoint, I would be unhappy to see him superceded by Bonds.

I was waiting for your posts (before the grudging effort in the last one) to do more than attack the character and qualities of Bonds. I was waiting for some recognition that he is among the greatest players in history, in any short list of a discussion of the greatest of all time, and that despite his lessened playing time he has remained an immensely productive hitter the past 2 years. One can say that without sponsoring his signing. But, having said it, one has at least to weigh the pros and cons, demonstrate a recognition that it is not a gimme decision, in asserting one's opinion.

What made it all the more peculiar to me is that I have never read one article by any analyst or scout that did not assert categorically that Bonds remained a great offensive force, still among the best in the majors. I have read many articles questioning other aspects of his play and influence, some positive, many negative. But even his most ardent critics, even the Bonds' haters, admitted to his offensive prowess the past 2 years. Yet in every post, you saw fit to downgrade that factor, ignoring OBP, ignoring Slugging, seeking to discover ways to suggest he was not producing. Even that is ok so long as the obvious truth of his performance is recognized, but no, not even that.

You may very reasonably object to what you may think is my hyperbole. I would certainly reconsider my language if you make a good case. But I am touchy about my points being misrepresented, exaggerated and taken out of context. You don't think his performance recently has been brilliant? Fine. But before dismissing him, demonstrate some appreciation for what he still does with the bat and incorporate that into your reasoning.

by bobr on Mar 17, 2008 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I have a question...
As a matter of fact, as you can see from my other posts, not only have I never said that his addition would "incontrovertibly" be a plus (only that his offensive production would be, something quite different)

Let me be clear, I absolutely question that Bonds offensive production would be a plus.  OBP means little when the guy can't make it onto the field as often as Bonds.  The point stands that Floyd's has the most superior recent season in 2005.  To me Floyd has the higher current ceiling.  Floyd doesn't inform the team when he takes days off like Bonds.  Floyd is younger.  Even Hinske's ceiling exceeds Bonds at this stage.  Further Bonds chances of a sharp dropoff in his current level couldn't be much higher.

I was waiting for your posts (before the grudging effort in the last one) to do more than attack the character and qualities of Bonds. I was waiting for some recognition that he is among the greatest players in history, in any short list of a discussion of the greatest of all time, and that despite his lessened playing time he has remained an immensely productive hitter the past 2 years. One can say that without sponsoring his signing. But, having said it, one has at least to weigh the pros and cons, demonstrate a recognition that it is not a gimme decision, in asserting one's opinion.

You are too hung up on the hero worship angle.  None of Bonds past performance should have relevance in his signing.  His projection is all that matters.  We disagree sharply that he has been "historically" productive in the last 2 seasons.  Nobody with an RC in the 50s and Total Bases in the 150's can rationally make this claim.

But I am touchy about my points being misrepresented, exaggerated and taken out of context. You don't think his performance recently has been brilliant? Fine. But before dismissing him, demonstrate some appreciation for what he still does with the bat and incorporate that into your reasoning.

I don't think I have misrepresented any of your points.  All you can come up with is some mumbo jumbo distinction about whether his addion or his production would be a plus.  

Finally, I don't need to appreciate anything about Barry Bonds, thank you very much.  He appreciates himself enough for all of us.    

by ttnorm on Mar 17, 2008 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I have a question...
He's averaged over 480 PA the last 2 seasons while playing LF.  Why exactly couldn't he get 500+ while DHing??  If he's getting on base 250 times, then he's helping the team.  I don't care what RC says.  Bonds has been hurt 1 season.  Floyd couldn't stay healthy in his 20's.  You're blinded by your hatred of Bonds.

And saying Hinske's ceiling is higher than Bonds at this point is absolutely absurd.  A 50 year old Bonds is better than Eric Hinske.

by Tyler on Mar 18, 2008 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I have a question...
Eric Hinske had a 100+ Runs Created season as a rookie.  He is now older, and quite like more mature in baseball skills.  Another 100+ RC season is within his reach.  Bonds has not had a 100+ RC season since 2004.  I doubt that he can revert back to 2004 at this point in his career.

by ttnorm on Mar 18, 2008 8:18 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I have a question...
As long as we are cherry picking stats to suit our purposes, here is information from BB-Ref:
_________________btRuns Adjusted Batting Runs - This is the linear weights method pioneered by Pete Palmer. It is a bit more accurate than Runs Created and also handles differing offensive environments more easily. It is adjusted to the park and league the player played in. It is also relative to league average, so negative values mean they were below average for the league. In my calculations, I consider league average without pitchers included. See the ESPN Baseball Encyclopedia for a full description.
btWins - Batting Wins - Another Pete Palmer tool, this measures the number of wins a player added relative to the league average hitter. See the ESPN Baseball Encyclopedia for a full description.
_
_________________
Note the phrase "It is a bit more accurate than Runs Created...." in the comparison of adjusted batting runs to RC. Now here are the stats:

Bonds in 2006: ABR: 39.3; Hinske: -0.2
                         BW: 3.6;                   0

Bonds in 2007: ABR: 46.1; Hinske: -5
                         BW:   4.3                 -0.5

Incidentally, the numbers for Floyd in those 2 years are -5.6 & -.5 in 2006 and 1.2 & .1 in 2007.

And for Crawford, the numbers are 8.6 & .8 in 2006 and 12.6 & 1.2 in 2007.

by bobr on Mar 18, 2008 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I have a question...
One more thing. You are comparing Bonds last few years to Hinske's first season, a season he has never come close to matching. Ok, what does even that spurious comparison tell us?

It is true that in 2002, Hinske had an RC of 104 which came to 6.5 per game. In the past two years, Bonds has had RCs of 98 & 99, and RCs per game of 9.4 & 10.2. It really is a stretch to suggest that Hinske's small advantage in one category, obviously a result of getting almost 200 more plate appearances, outweighs the mountain of evidence on the other side. And as for plate appearances, the role expected of either Bonds or Hinske would almost certainly call for 500 or fewer PAs, a range well within Bonds' recent performance, so Barry's huge per game advantage, even in that lesser stat, trumps Hinske small advantage elsewhere.

Additionally, in that, his best year, Hinske's adjusted batting runs was 17.3 and his batting wins 1.6, neither close to what Bonds has done the past 2 years.

There is no question that durability is an issue with Bonds given his age. But he has actually not been particularly fragile, playing in considerably more games and with considerably more plate appearances than Floyd, for example. In fact, he had only 68 fewer plate appearances than Upton in 2007.

Note: I say this as one who was thrilled with the signing of Floyd (he was my first choice among the available lefties on the Rays' radar at the time) and also very happy with the Hinske signing. I have high hopes that both will be significant contributors this year.

by bobr on Mar 18, 2008 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I have a question...
What is spurious is not factoring in Bond's age into the projection.  

Durability advantage counts.  RC27 identifies up and coming players, not declining veterans.  RC27 doesn't win games, RC does.  Hinske will be there whenever Maddon puts him in the lineup.  Even if we assume that Maddon would only want to use Bonds for 500 PAs (odd considering that this is the greatest player in history), the chances are that Bonds is not up to it and further we know that Bonds will decide which PAs he is fit for and which he is not.  That doesn't win games either.

Bonds is a crash and burn candidate if there ever was one.  

by ttnorm on Mar 18, 2008 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I have a question...
If your entire point is that Bonds in 2007 has been more productive than Hinske to date, I'll grant you that.  That is not the end of the story unless your alot more of an inflexible sabremtrician than I think you are.

Projection for this season and beyond is all that counts.  Hinske has established a existing ceiling.  We don't have to hope that he can someday get to that level (like the Sonny discussion), we know that he can.  Further at his age, we know that he will never be more capable of prime production than right now.  Players have bad years for lots of reasons, injuries, being blocked by better players, Hinske has had all of that.  If he is healthy and given an opportunity this season, he is a prime candidate to achieve a level that Bonds has not since 2004.

Of course, it is possible that his game has will not recover, but I haven't heard or seen anything in his game/approach that would cause concern so far.

Hinske will likely never be an all star, but he has shown that he can be an effective MLBer.

Bonds, leaving aside the barcalounger, the discretionary days off, the lying, and all the other negatives that the Rays would have to deal with, is clearly on the downhill side of his abilities.  He is much more likely on the cusp of a precipitious falloff than a maintenance of his current level.  

All in all, I'd spend the payroll on Hinske any day of the week.

by ttnorm on Mar 18, 2008 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I have a question...
So basically, what you're saying is that you expect a significant decline in Bonds game.  Not based on anything other than his age, correct?  

Because his stats still show he was a highly capable hitter as of last season.  And Bonds has been a better hitter than anyone in the history of the game in his late 30's early 40's.  You can argue all day the reasons behind that, but the fact of the matter is that he did things last season that.  Since 1993, he has only had an OPS under 1.000 once and that was in 06' when it was .999.  He may well decline, but he's doing what no one else has ever done and isn't really comparable to anyone else in the history of the game.  I'd be willing to be my life savings that given the same number of at bats, Bonds out produces Hinske by 50 points in OBP and 50 points in SLG.  

by Tyler on Mar 18, 2008 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I have a question...
Considering that durability is the issue, a more valid comp would be RC or TB.  

by ttnorm on Mar 18, 2008 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I have a question...
When was durability an issue??  2005?  That's it.

by Tyler on Mar 18, 2008 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I have a question...
Durability is an issue for any ball player who is
A) 43 years old, B) has a history of needing extra recovery time, and C) has a history of steroids use.

Bonds has all 3.

by ttnorm on Mar 18, 2008 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I have a question...
Why exactly couldn't he get 500+ while DHing??  

Because he is an very, very old man.    

by ttnorm on Mar 18, 2008 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I have a question...
That was beautiful and almost brought a tear to my eye, Bob.  Some people just can't appreciate how good a player BB is because they view him as an arrogant jerk.  Then they throw the cheater label out there.  If people on realized how prevalent steroid use really was, and that many of there favorite "character" players probably used steroids as well, then we would all be better off.

by td32 on Mar 17, 2008 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I have a question...
All the media attention would give the Rays some added exposure, something this team is in dire need of good or bad. If the Rays are to be good one day they can learn to deal with all the media now, best of all it won't affect the players as Barry can handle it all. Look at the positives weedhopper.

There are far more positives to signing Bonds than negatives. I'll buy season tix to see Barry play. With the talk of Longoria & Neimann back in Durham there will be less of a fan base as it is. These are the players fans want to see play. It's time for management to do what the fans want for a change. Who the heck cares to see Aybar play? No one. Who wants to see Bonds, Neimann, Longoria? Everyone. Let's see what they got man. Put 'em in!

This team needs to win & it need to put fannies in the stands.

SIGN BARRY BONDS!

JohnM

by J-Miester on Mar 16, 2008 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I have a question...
I think you're taking a far too simple outlook on the fanbase, they're not paying to see Jeff Niemann per say, but rather to see the team win no matter who's playing.

by R.J. Anderson on Mar 16, 2008 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I have a question...
I think signing Bonds to sell more tickets is a poor reason. That would be returning to the bad old days of trading for Jason Romano because he grew up in this area and might bring some more acquaintances to buy tickets, only on a much larger scale.

The only issue is whether he can help the team win, and as odd as this statement may seem, I am not so sure he can. I have little doubt he would improve the offense, but there are ripple effects of signing him, some his doing probably and others simply surrounding him or resulting from his presence, that might be negative.

by bobr on Mar 17, 2008 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I have a question...
That OBP sure is tantalizing, but bringing him in does not do anything to solve our defensive hole in RF.  I would love to see Barry getting on base 50% of the time, and the numbers he put up in short seasons for a terrible lineup the last two years would certainly rise in the Rays Thunder & Lightning attack.  

I think a major point that many are missing is that Bonds would assuredly bring something back at the trade deadline.  So if we pay him $10M for a season we would only be on the hook for about 6, and we could get another prospect back in return.  

With all this said I hope we can trade some package of E-Jax, Hammel, or Guzman to the Angels for Willits.  The guy plays all over, plays smart, hard, and flies on the bases.  Batting leadoff he would score 100+ runs.  I am not that sold on Aki with all those K's leading off, but this will be his second time through the league so you would have to think that will improve.

Lastly, do not trade Sonny for anyone.  The kid screams Maddux to me.  Superb control with 6 pitches, and a variety of arm angles he will benefit the most on this staff by the improved defense.  

by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 17, 2008 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I have a question...
"Lastly, do not trade Sonny for anyone.  The kid screams Maddux to me.  Superb control with 6 pitches, and a variety of arm angles he will benefit the most on this staff by the improved defense."  

I have to agree with keeping Sonnanstine, he's the only pitcher of the 3 mentioned (EJax, Hammel) who doesn't kill himself every other outing by walking hitters.

My big question is name those 6 pitches?

1-FASTBALL
2-CURVEBALL
3-SPLITTER
4-SLIDER
5-CHANGE UP
6-SCREWBALL? OR IS IT THE VASELINE BALL? SPITTER?

JohnM

by J-Miester on Mar 17, 2008 7:51 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: I have a question...
Per pitchf/x:
Fastball
Curve
Slider
Change
Splitter
Cutter

by R.J. Anderson on Mar 17, 2008 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I have a question...
R.J., Thank you.  Here is the link http://baseball.bornbybits.com/plots/players.html

He seems to me like a guy that knows how to pitch, someone mentioned it in another post about him throwing the same pitch 2-2, and 3-2.  He just knows how to pitch.  After watching guys like Big Red and Dewan, with all the talent in the world, but no idea how to pitch, it is nice to see a bulldog that isn't afraid to challenge hitters.  I am not saying he will be sliced bread this first year, but he seems like a guy that could pay off 10x with a little patience.  

by Sandy Kazmir on Mar 17, 2008 11:59 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Founded in 2005. DRaysBay is home to "progressive statistical analysis and reasoned argument."
Start posting about the Rays »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recent FanShots

Desert Dogs to play in the AFL championship @ 2:30 EST.
Desmond Jennings Makes the Tops AA-All-Stars
ABC Coalition to Vote on Draft Report Today.
Fan page for Dick Bosman, Rays minor league pitching coordinator
Upton's Struggles vs Lefties
Evan Longoria wins the Silver Slugger Award
09 Minor Leaguers File for Free Agency
Longoria on the MLB 2k10 cover?
Thank you Tim Marchman.
Longo's Slugcon by Location

+ New FanShot All FanShots >


VPs of Baseball Operations

Nando_small R.J. Anderson

Raysring1_small Tommy Rancel

Zorilla_small FreeZorilla

Price_small Erik Hahmann

Ticket Account Executive

Rays_small Steve Slowinski