Rotation, Bullpen All But Set
From Lancaster:
Earlier in the post he said the official rotation should be announced today and said he'd be shocked if it wasn't: Shields - Garza - Jackson - Hammel - Sonnanstine, to which I have two replies. First, Jeff Niemann pack your bags, you'll be needed very soon when Jackson and/or Hammel get firebombed a few times. Secondly, UGH. Remember that rant about me hating the bullpen? Yeah, well the rotation takes all of my ire now. Jackson AND Hammel? This whole waiting-for-some-kind-of-miracle-light-bulb-clicking-and-not-blowing-up-and-burning-their-faces-off business was cute when we sucked, but aren't we supposed to be contending for a third place spot? Ignoring how pathetic the idea that a third place finish in our division is competing to us, I'd just rather have Niemann than either of them. I guess we'll see him in a similar situation to Longoria.
As for the pen, Dohmann's going to win the spot based on Balfour's contract which allows him to be optioned to Durham. I'm guessing the pen breaks camp as:
Percival - Reyes - Wheeler - Miller - Glover - Dohmann - Howell
As opposed to last year:
Reyes - Camp - Lugo - Stokes - Salas - Glover - Ryu
Improved, and with a chance of being above average. Now if Glover can just miss the team meetings for the next few days...
And now Niemann has been optioned to Durham. Great.
The order: Shields/Garza/Sonnanstine/Jackson&Hammel fill out, not sure in which slot.
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34 comments
Comments
Re: Rotation, Bullpen All But Set
by thebaddancingraysfan on Mar 22, 2008 1:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rotation, Bullpen All But Set
For example, let's say Crawford is tired in July but is still the best left fielder on the team even at 70% of his talent. You do not put your best team on the field for that game, because you have 50 games left and you want a rested Crawford down the stretch.
So too with both Longoria and Niemann, although the issue here is not being tired or dinged up. Rather it is an issue of being fully ripe to play in the majors. Niemann especially should be given more AAA time to hone his skills. I would prefer that Hammel flops over the next two months and is then replaced by a more mature Niemann than that Niemann should struggle in TB as he tries to figure things out under the pressure of having to win now-and possibly have his development set back as a result.
We've batted the Longoria situation back and forth enough already so the issues have been identified pretty thoroughly. There is a case that Longoria's minor league performance and spring training play suggest he is ready to excel. But that is not the case at all with Niemann. His first reasonably healthy minor league season was promising but not much more, and demonstrated he still has much to learn. And his spring play has been ok but not particularly impressive. Although he has been around longer, in essence, due to his injuries, he has less pro experience even than Longoria.
by bobr on Mar 22, 2008 2:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rotation, Bullpen All But Set
Fair enough.
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 22, 2008 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rotation, Bullpen All But Set
by Steve Slowinski on Mar 22, 2008 2:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rotation, Bullpen All But Set
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 22, 2008 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rotation, Bullpen All But Set
by Steve Slowinski on Mar 22, 2008 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rotation, Bullpen All But Set
I don't think Sonnanstine's spot on the roster is in jeopardy, only his role as a starter. As long as he has a prominent role on the team, I will be satisfied that Maddon and company made a reasonable decision.
by bobr on Mar 22, 2008 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rotation, Bullpen All But Set
by Vic on Mar 22, 2008 3:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rotation, Bullpen All But Set
by bobr on Mar 22, 2008 4:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Thank heavens
by ttnorm on Mar 22, 2008 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rotation, Bullpen All But Set
It's sad when I feel Hammel has done nothing to earn a spot, and will still pitch before Sonnanstine in the rotation.
I feel that this and the evident demotion of Longoria to AAA makes us a 5th place team... Yes, it's that bad...
Is anyone elseperplexed how Kazmir was all set to pitch last week, and all of a sudden is just playing catch? Something happened in that bullpen session he threw before his first scheduled start, that we don't know about- I have a sneaky feeling this C- rotation is ours to keep for a few months, and when we are 10 games back in June, it's going to be to late to say "I told you so" regarding Longoria, Hammel, and Jackson-
by nittsallgood on Mar 22, 2008 4:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rotation, Bullpen All But Set
by nittsallgood on Mar 22, 2008 4:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rotation, Bullpen All But Set
by nittsallgood on Mar 22, 2008 4:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rotation, Bullpen All But Set
I would also prefer that Glover be the long reliever over Howell. Howell should be pitching 1-2 innings against the lefty heavy parts of lineups, allowing Miller to be a true LOOGY.
by raysrule07 on Mar 22, 2008 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rotation, Bullpen All But Set
by davidsmarch on Mar 22, 2008 4:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rotation, Bullpen All But Set
by raysrule07 on Mar 22, 2008 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rotation, Bullpen All But Set
Niemann still has much to prove, while Hammell's stay in the rotation is virtually assured to come to an end once Kazmir returns fully healthy (please be soon).
by RATW on Mar 22, 2008 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rotation, Bullpen All But Set
I hope someone asks Maddon if Jackson and Hammel will at least be on a short leash.
I don't think it will be a good business decision to send Longoria down to the minors because of the message you are sending to future recruits.
by websterjtc on Mar 22, 2008 5:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
god help them if they fail badly
by nittsallgood on Mar 22, 2008 5:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Dramatic much?
by nittsallgood on Mar 22, 2008 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rotation, Bullpen All But Set
I would love some pointed questions once and for all about being cost-prohibitive and what is smart. I sense some contradictions here, and I find that sad. It won't preclude me from enjoying the season, but I have my complaints. I would rather the NRO shoot straight and not be coy about their intentions.
by joedobr on Mar 22, 2008 7:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rotation, Bullpen All But Set
I realize that alot of people think that Longoria is "ready" now and would benefit from starting the year in the majors than spending the first month/month-and-a-half in Durham. However, it's not about having Longoria an extra year/money. That is something that just is a bonus, actually.
Longoria is not a clear-cut, "gonna hit .300, hit 20+ HR and play a solid-if not spectacular" MLB-ready 3B. Though the quotes regarding him being not ready are just as "iffy", using his inability to recognize hittable breaking pitches, he isn't really ready. He has shown great plate discipline in Spring Training, though Spring stats are always shady(Elliot Johnson was leading the Grapefruit League in avg., when I checked last earlier this week), but he was the guy whose BB %age plummeted to "geez, Evan, take a pitch" levels in his stay at AAA to end last season. He did turn it up a notch in the playoffs, but still...he needs to work on taking pitches a bit better. Also, Evan has booted a few easy plays this Spring and any fan won't want during the season...especially if he doesn't hit the ground running with his bat. Give him a month or so, let him relax and know that his time is near and he's just gotta worry about bettering himself with simple defensive plays and becoming a more complete hitter. It worked wonders for Ryan Braun, David Wright and Ryan Zimmerman(they all got mid-season starts to their careers). If we chose to give Longoria the job out of Spring Training, it'd be vastly similar to what was done with Alex Gordon. He barely got enough AAA ABs the season before and the pressure for him to perform got to him.
by Jacob Larsen on Mar 22, 2008 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hm
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 22, 2008 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rotation, Bullpen All But Set
First of all, Zimmerman had 63 games in AA, 0 games in AAA and only spent 67 total games in the minors. So using him as an example would be supporting the people who say call him up, he's ready. It would have been like calling up Longoria in 06'.
Braun obliterated spring training, hitting .353 and hitting 5 homeruns. The Brewers said he needed more time and they were lying. He had an 1.100 OPS in AAA before he got called up.
And what the hell are you talking about here:
but he was the guy whose BB %age plummeted to "geez, Evan, take a pitch" levels in his stay at AAA to end last season.
His K/BB ratio was 22/29 in AAA. He walked 22 times in 128 plate appearances. That's 17% of his at bats. He knows how to take a pitch and that didn't change in AAA.
by Tyler on Mar 22, 2008 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rotation, Bullpen All But Set
Too many circumstances, what will 15 AAA games give the guy? He is saavy enough and ready, and now you risk angering the player even though its good "business" for the team, just like Niemann to a smaller degree.
by joedobr on Mar 22, 2008 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rotation, Bullpen All But Set
by R.J. Anderson on Mar 23, 2008 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rotation, Bullpen All But Set
by ttnorm on Mar 23, 2008 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rotation, Bullpen All But Set
I just wish the organization would be as accountable to their own word and standard as they give their talent. This will NOT be lost on Longoria, let's hope for the fans' sake he doesn't take it personally.
Its just an excuse unfortunately, but hey that's why were fans.
by joedobr on Mar 23, 2008 12:18 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rotation, Bullpen All But Set
by ttnorm on Mar 23, 2008 12:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rotation, Bullpen All But Set
If Kazmir is "improving" as ttnorm indicates, then doesn't the bar of expectations get duly raised as well?
by joedobr on Mar 23, 2008 5:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Re: Rotation, Bullpen All But Set
by The Nut on Mar 25, 2008 4:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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