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Jonny Sounds Off

 Jonny Gomes, from Baseball America:

If I say I commit to winning, he's on my team for sure. I think everybody wearing a Tampa Bay hat and uniform wants that guy here. I don't think it's a good day on the players' end and for everybody in a uniform.

I don't necessarily disagree with Longoria's demotion, and I think the writing has been on the wall since before spring training started that he wasn't going to make the team -- remember when it was said that Longoria could bat .500 and still not make the squad?  Yeah.  Well, as you saw, Jonny Gomes isn't happy.  I'd be interested to find out how many players on the club feel this way, as Gomes isn't the type to beat around the bush.

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Re: Jonny Sounds Off
"I don't know, man, that's just a sensitive topic right now...So I don't really know the reaction that guys are going to have [if Longoria doesn't make the team] just yet." - Carl Crawford

"We all want him here, every single one of us." - Carlos Pena

"Hell, yes," B.J. Upton said. "Ready right damn now." - BJ Upton, upon being asked if Longoria was major league ready

I think its safe to say that Gomes speaks for the team.  

by GomesSweetGomes on Mar 26, 2008 7:23 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Jonny Sounds Off
Rays management is a joke. Every player and fan on the Rays that root for them realize Evan belongs in the Major League's.

Answer this question, "what can Evan learn in Durham that he cannot learn in the Majors?"

Answer, NOTHING! Rays mismanagement isn't concerned about winning. I hope Evan tells them to stick their heads up their asses to see if it fits when FA time comes.

After all, what comes around goes around.

Andrew screwed the pooch with his lies on this one. Evans pissed I hear from sources very close to him. It'll be five years and out for Longoria. Good job mismanagement team.

Why play to win when your pocketing mega-millions?

JohnM

by J-Miester on Mar 26, 2008 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Jonny Sounds Off
Answer this question, "what can Evan learn in Durham that he cannot learn in the Majors?"

---

How about what can Evan do in Durham that he can't in Tampa, how about struggle without the pressure of having a fanbase grow restless?

by R.J. Anderson on Mar 26, 2008 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Jonny Sounds Off
He's not going to struggle in Durham, lets be real.  I mean, he could, but chances are really, really small.  But he can get his timing down and get into a grove so that he's ready and comfortable when he does get called up he's been raking and is hopefully in a groove.  He's going to slump sometime this season in the big leagues, hopefully sending him to them minors will help keep it from being when he's called up.

And as I and others have said (there's a post 3 spots down), they're not saving that much money.  I figured it out and basically they're saving around $30,000 by sending him to AAA.  That's garbage money to a big league team.  He's going to be a super-2 and they're going to try and sign him to a long term deal.

by Tyler on Mar 26, 2008 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Jonny Sounds Off
Probably won't, but if he lays an egg at the big league level to start the year I guarantee you a few would say send him down.

by R.J. Anderson on Mar 26, 2008 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Jonny Sounds Off
I'm not sure if I'm on the same page as Gomes. I'll tell you though, if I see Longoria come up two weeks into April or May, then I'll be pissed, and the move is pure to keep the guy under contract longer or to keep him from arbitration eligibility. If we want the guy, then just pay the man. It's as simple as that. I know it's easy for me to say that, but how do you expect to get revenue if you have no one to display other than Willy Freakin Aybar, which I'm not a big fan of in the first place, no offense Willy. Just a rant.

Disgruntled Asian Fan

by mik3655h on Mar 26, 2008 8:55 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Jonny Sounds Off
If we want the guy, then just pay the man. It's as simple as that.

If it were that simple, why aren't Santana and ARod playing for the Rays right now?

by ttnorm on Mar 26, 2008 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Jonny Sounds Off
Bad analogy there - Longy doesn't carry their price tag, and those 2 were completely free to choose where to play if offers were made. The issue is 1 additional year of higher pay during his arb years while under club control -  ignoring the added development argument for the moment (which I agree might be advisable). Not a 6 - 10 year free agent deal at high market throughout. So the Rays could choose to "just pay the man."

Can we just put this issue aside now? Longoria isn't going to be hurt by some added time in AAA, and it might not even matter to the Rays winning prospects in the short run. He's not likely the difference in making the playoffs in 2008. And the decision may seem money motivated (it's more about extended player control), but it is smart business - and this is a business as well as a game.

The players will get over it - what choice do they have?

By the way, the over under for Rays '08 wins on Bodog is up to 76.5. Shoulda placed your bets sooner!

by nyyfaninlaaland on Mar 26, 2008 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Jonny Sounds Off
Couldn't he in 2014?  

by ttnorm on Mar 26, 2008 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Carry their price tags?
Obviously it's too early to say, but assuming the market roof increases and Longo goes ape there's a very slight chance.

by R.J. Anderson on Mar 26, 2008 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Jonny Sounds Off
Sure, but this delay will leave him as an Arb 3 instead in '14 - not like he isn't gonna get paid well that year anyway.

by nyyfaninlaaland on Mar 27, 2008 3:39 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Jonny Sounds Off
86 days of service time for Super 2, eh? I guess things will be REALLY fishy if Longo gets the call right before the Marlins series at home in June (game 77 - 79)... no pun intended.

by gavind on Mar 26, 2008 9:00 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Jonny Sounds Off
86 days is the minimum required service time in the season prior to qualify for possible S 2 status - it's irrelevant to the discussion this year.

Typically to be one of the Super 2's takes 2 years plus at least 125 days of service time. So assuming Longy is promoted in time to accrue over 125 days service this year, and never is optioned out again, he could be in the S 2 pool in 2011.  For the Rays to safely avoid that possibility he has to stay in Durham for about 50 days from March 31, or around May 20. That's the timeframe to watch for. A home debut against the Orioles on May 23?

by nyyfaninlaaland on Mar 26, 2008 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Jonny Sounds Off
It's a business and Jonny knows it.

It's not like jumping from AA to MLB is the best thing - NO MATTER how ready one thinks he might be.

Longoria will be fine in two months and it eliminates the possibility of falling flat on his face as a rookie MLBer and spiralling into a bad situation.

If you look at most of the great players, they were eased into it.

Yes, it's about money but there's more to it. Longoria knew what waas going to happen. If Longoria was the one popping off, then I'd be worried.

If you're not having fun, what are you having? There's already WAAAY too many serious moments in life.

by Manny Stiles on Mar 26, 2008 12:55 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Jonny Sounds Off
"Longoria will be fine in two months and it eliminates the possibility of falling flat on his face as a rookie MLBer and spiralling into a bad situation." Nothing eliminates the possibility of failure.

by floridaroar on Mar 26, 2008 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Jonny Sounds Off
Quite correct.  Nothing eliminates the possibility of failure at AAA and not seeing Longoria up all season.

by ttnorm on Mar 26, 2008 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Jonny Sounds Off
To be honest, it's not like Longoria was dominant during spring training, so I think this whole thing of him absolutely positively being ready is a bit overblown.  He couldn't hit anything with a wrinkle in it.

by J.D. on Mar 26, 2008 3:18 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Jonny Sounds Off
I mean elliot johnson had arguably a better spring...

by rglass44 on Mar 26, 2008 3:31 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

On spring performance
I quote LaTroy Hawkins, noted baseball sooth:

"Spring don't mean sh**, dude."

by nyyfaninlaaland on Mar 26, 2008 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Jonny Sounds Off
Just a week ago I got backlash from 'suggesting' the POSSIBLE downside of sending Longoria down

Everyone can measure exactly how much we gain fgrom sending him down, but it ios IMPOSSIBLE to have predicted what were capable of losing in the long run by sending him down

I can live with the decision, I knew that whatever decision they made would have positives and negatives. I just hope now that the decision has been made, that there isn't a clubhouse full of angry guys that will hold some resentment towards the amdinistration over this. I also hope this doesnt effect this teams "new" image to the fringe  fans and local businesses

by blazinrayz on Mar 26, 2008 4:53 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Jonny Sounds Off
"To be honest, it's not like Longoria was dominant during spring training, so I think this whole thing of him absolutely positively being ready is a bit overblown.  He couldn't hit anything with a wrinkle in it."

Tell this to BJ Upton, CC, Kazmir, Gomes, etc. They dont seem to agree with you

Crawford seemed to believe we were moving in the right direction, he was really starting to buy into the "Ray way". Now, maybe his thoughts have changed a little. Was it worth saving a few million and a year of FA to send a message to the clubhouse that $$$ > baseball?

"I don't know, man, that's just a sensitive topic right now...So I don't really know the reaction that guys are going to have just yet." - Crawford

I LOVE the front office and management, so don't assume I am against them. I just think they were in a tight spot, and there will be a domino effect

Does CC decide he wants to play in LA or NY whens he is a FA, for a real team who wouldve with 100% certainty had Longoria starting at 3B on opening day? Does this tell Crawford that his friend/peer/teammate is being squeezed out of $$$ with very little reason to do so other than to save money?

How does this effect whether BJ, Kazmir and Crawford decide to sign longterm eventually? I dont think any of this can me measured right now, other than asking the players themselves. They seem to be unhappy initially. The RAys apologists will sweep this under the rug, until one of these guys comes out and says he is deifnitely bolting when their contract runs out. Until then I guess we can all sip the kool aid

Im not saying Longoria going down didnt need to happen, what I am most concerned with is the opinions of the players and after that the businesses and fans who will choose to support or not support this team

by blazinrayz on Mar 26, 2008 5:10 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Jonny Sounds Off
NY or LA typically wouldn't leave themselves in the position of relying on a rookie with 100 AB's in AAA and Willy Aybar as the fallback at an important offense position.

Or would they? A-Rod opted out, leaving only Betemit. And LA entered spring with LaRoche and Garciaparra, now both hurt.

I don't think this a big issue for the players long term - there's a lot of water to flow under the bridge before these decisions have to be made. Now, whether it affects Longoria's (and his agent's) attitude is another thing - they're much more likley to remember this and may play hardball to recoup their "losses". But MAY is a big word.

by nyyfaninlaaland on Mar 26, 2008 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Jonny Sounds Off
If the Rays are committed to winning this year they should do everything they can to win games this year.  Whether it is starting Longoria in the majors, or making the decision to start Shields in the 5th game, on regular rest.  

You look at almost any other quality major league team and if they have a day off in the first 5 days of the season, they are having their ace make his 2nd start before they have the 5th starter make his first.  It makes sense.  If you want to win, you put your best players on the field.

Unless the Rays are going to turn into the Buffalo Sabres and let all of their talent get to their last year before free agency before they discuss a contract, they have nothing to worry about with Longoria.

His presence on the team brings nothing but positive vibes, from teammates to the media.  It would also give ESPN a reason to show Rays highlights too!!!

Dan White

by Raysthebarthisyear on Mar 26, 2008 7:34 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Jonny Sounds Off
Clearly the org will try to sign him if they he performs. But Longoria gets a choice in the matter as well. One issue for some here is how will this affect his attitude about that. That's TBD. And a ways away.

by nyyfaninlaaland on Mar 27, 2008 3:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Jonny Sounds Off
My thoughts on the subject is for all the rays fans who have been waiting for the future to be now, we just got a dose of reality that this is a small market team, that has to be financially smart with any decision.

In some fantasy league I have been playing for years, if you have a rookie drafted at $15 and you activate him towards the end of the year, you have to keep him at the salary but if you don't activate him all year, you get to the following year slot him at $2 salary.

Just like the fantasy league, people would say would be dumb to activate him for meaningless at bats. However, its not like we have tasted success and for all the fans/players etc, when you are close to turning the thing around, you hate to make a decision that hurts in wins/losses.

by David Bloom on Mar 26, 2008 7:44 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Jonny Sounds Off
"NY or LA typically wouldn't leave themselves in the position of relying on a rookie with 100 AB's in AAA and Willy Aybar as the fallback at an important offense position. "

No doubt. NY wouldve traded Longoria 1 year ago, and they would have paid the "sure thing" FA 20 mil per year to play 3B  (if A Rod wasnt there)

jk man, I know they are different situations. Because New York's recent history hasn't involved players from their farm system becoming main cogs in their lineup. Aside from a couple guys the past couple years like Robinson Cano, Joba, Melky, and Phil Hughes. If none of these players were being blocked, and were ready, New York would call them up. see: Robinson Cano

Either way, the end game is our players see this as a move of weakness, and why not go to New York or LA where these types of decisions are never even considered? I think that is the mindframe we want our players to stay FAR, FAR AWAY from.

Whether it is right for them to think that way or not, it has to be a worry ESPECIALLY with the comments that have already been made by Gomes, CC and Upton

by blazinrayz on Mar 26, 2008 7:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Jonny Sounds Off
The real difference is that NY has the resources and will to pay a free agent that fills a need - or to retain a homegrown quality player. When you're competing for the pinnacle every year, development takes a touch more time in the back seat to today need.

But they've filled many of their needs from within recently, and that process seems to be accelerating. Those they didn't have a player for they filled externally via trade or FA. That's what teams trying to compete now do. But if you look at the likely roster, we've got plenty of all types.

My view is the Rays are sitting fat right now. They've got a good crop of prospects coming in the right spots - I still don't see the depth in pitching to fill the pen, but nobody has everything covered. Where it will get interesting is in 2011 and after, when the kids start hitting arb, some FA. That's when the payroll is going to push against the external revenue streams, and decisions to retain players into their FA years hit the front burner.

Kaz, Pena, CC, Aki all hit FA in 2011 without prior extensions. Gomes, Bartlett, Navarro will be Arb 3's, Upton and Garza Arb 2's. You're looking at some serious cash. Longoria worst case hits arb in 2012 - if he turns out to be what all here hope, hello! Shields will be making $4.25 mil and could look a bargain - his options zoom up from there. These guys might not all be around in 2011, but if you think every projectable replacement in the minors will represent an upgrade or at least maintain, I've got a bridge to sell you.  Who knows who will be in the pen - likely none of the current occupants, which are costing over $12.5 mil now!

by nyyfaninlaaland on Mar 27, 2008 4:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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