Nathan Haynes is Tom Goodwin

by R.J. Anderson on Mar 29, 2008 2:18 PM EDT Comment 13 comments

Can we settle this Nathan Haynes talk, please?

He is, and should only be, our fourth or fifth outfielder. If team necessity dictates that he gets more at-bats than his personal performance should suggest then yes, by all means, we’re screwed. However for now he’s simply the 12^th or 13^th man on the bench, nothing more. Let’s go through some of the questions/arguments being raised around the internet.

We should’ve traded for someone better…

I suppose in an ideal world Corey Hart would’ve fell into our laps for Jason Hammel, but since we don’t live in my dreams this simply wasn’t happening. Matt Murton didn’t fit the classified ad, and Jeremy Reed likely wasn’t worth the asking price, same with Reggie Willits. Focusing solely on Reed, his minor league numbers are more impressive than Haynes and his last appearance on a top prospect list is far more recent than Haynes, but the contrasting difference is that Reed has received a few opportunities as a major leaguer and failed, Haynes hasn’t even gotten a true chance.

Who?

Chone Figgins personal batting coach, in fact I suppose you could infer that the move is simply ensuring that when Figgins reaches his impending free agency off-season he’ll sign here to reunite with Haynes and Maddon while taking over in right. I’m joking, but only a little.

He’s trash!

Possibly, but shouldn’t we see that for our own eyes first? Plus his middle name is Raymond, can you say destiny?

Nathan Haynes. Not great. Good. Terrible. Or incredibly relevant, but somewhere in the middle.

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He is...

Chris Singleton 2.0

In the Name of Shinji Mori, we shall win!

by thebaddancingraysfan on Mar 29, 2008 2:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Except

He can play defense, is absurdly fast and isn't blocking Jonny Gomes this time. I like this situation better.

by Tyler on Mar 29, 2008 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Righties

Did he hit righties very well last season, even though he didn't get that many ABs? I can't find the splits on him.

www.lbacentral.com

by SeanDubbs on Mar 29, 2008 2:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

His BABIP was .520 against righties

0.444/0.510/0.651/1.161 otherwise.
http://www.minorleaguesplits.com/cgi-bin/pl.cgi?pl=279566&tm=SalPCL&bp=b

by R.J. Anderson on Mar 29, 2008 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You'll notice that he got 126 ABs against righties and hit 3 home runs, 4 triples and 9 doubles, got 17 walks (2 intentional) and 21 Ks and hit into 3 double plays. The site also identifies the types of batted balls and interestingly, he had no bunts. But he seems to hit lots of grounders (42) and line drives (36) and fewer fly balls (24) or pop-ups (3) which seems smart for his type of hitter.

I'm pretty sure that Salt Lake is a hitters park in an extreme hitters league.

by bobr on Mar 29, 2008 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

As always, R.J., a well-reasoned and well-considered point. I have no idea if Haynes can help the team, but his job is not to start or be a big bat in the middle of the lineup. His job is to be a defensive replacement (for Gomes) late in games, perhaps to pinch run in certain situations and to give Upton an occasional rest, perhaps against a tough right-handed strikeout pitcher who gives B.J. trouble.

If it is true that he is a good defensive player with a strong arm, and that he runs the bases well, then as the 25th man on the team he has value. The only reason to prefer Murton or Ethier or Willits or any of the other names is that you do not like Gomes as a regular. But if you do not think any of them would be better than Gomes-or make the team better by platooning with him (which is the same as saying you do not want Jonny to get more than 300 ABs), then Haynes might actually be the better option as his defense is apparently far better than any of theirs, and that is the role you want him to play.

It is not about accumulating the best players per se, but acquiring the best players to fit the roles you want them to play. For example, I know this will appear stupid, and I only mean it as an extreme hypothetical for illustration, not as a real choice anyone would make. But I think it fair to say that Derek Jeter is a far better player than Elliot Johnson. Suppose the Rays could acquire Derek as the backup infielder? Should they do it? (Let's leave the money issue aside for a moment and assume that the price in talent would be acceptable.)

It would mean either using him inefficiently or replacing Bartlett. Do we want Jeter as the regular shortstop on THIS team? Or would his offensive boost be sabotaged by the defensive hit? As this team is constructed, I think there might at least be a momentary hesitation before pulling the trigger on such a tradeoff.

It isn't about accumulating the best players in the majors, but about constructing the best possible team, and the two are not necessarily the same thing.

by bobr on Mar 29, 2008 2:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Remember the AAAAlamo

What do we do when floyd is injured... is it Ruggiano "The Forgotten's'" time then?

IF only Harry Carey could be arounde for Kosuke.

by CubFanRaysaddict on Mar 29, 2008 2:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

"Possibly, but shouldn’t we see that for our own eyes first?"

He has 10 years of a track record in the minor-leagues. Since when did stats become meaningless in evaluating players relative to what our eyes tell us?

Otherwise I'm in agreement with your post.

by TimDierkesSucks on Mar 29, 2008 3:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I wasn't discounting his statistics whatsoever, they suggest he'll be an okay major league player, but at times there are flaws in a player that don't translate well from the minors to the majors. Ballparks and competition level included.

by R.J. Anderson on Mar 29, 2008 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nothing against Haynes

I just don't think Gomes needs a late innings defensive replacement, as much as he needs someone to hit against tough righties (J-Rod). I also don't really think we need Haynes for his speed, as EJ already has the PR role filled.

But Haynes will likely end up providing better defense than Gomes or Rodriguez, and he really didn't cost anything, other than some AB's that probably would have better been used with Rodriguez. It's really not going to be that big a deal either way, as the Rays can always call up J-Rod if Haynes starts the season 1 for 26.

by GomesSweetGomes on Mar 29, 2008 3:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

EJ isn't a very good baserunner though. And he's only going to be in the big leagues for a week or two. When Zobrist comes back the first or second week in April, EJ goes down.

by Tyler on Mar 29, 2008 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

As things now stand, either Hinske or Aybar will be available to pinch hit for Gomes against tough righties, or even to play RF against a starter. And if Haynes can indeed work the pitcher, he might still have value in that role as well. On the other hand, assuming Gomes is a weak defensive outfielder (I know there is some evidence that is not true, but it is commonly accepted as true) and given the Rays' increased stress on defense this year, he certainly can use a late inning replacement.

In any case, I don't think you pick up an Ethier or Willits to serve as a pinch hitter, and if they are brought in to platoon, you really limit Gomes's value to the team. Perhaps Gomes is not the man we want in RF and we would prefer another regular there with Gomes manning the bench (or as trade bait), but I think the Rays want to give him a full opportunity this year to prove himself. That power and patience at the plate are intriguing. Given 500-600 plate appearances, can he hit 30+ home runs and get on base better than 34% of the time? If he can, are Ethier, Willits, Murton or any of the other candidates better choices?

I also think you make an excellent point that there are plenty of alternatives at Durham should Haynes disappoint.

by bobr on Mar 29, 2008 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Of course, given that Maddon is starting Hinske in RF on Monday (according to the Heater), I may be entirely wrong about the Rays wanting to give Gomes regular playing time.

Haynes certainly seems likely to play a role as a defensive replacement if Hinske plays much RF.

by bobr on Mar 29, 2008 4:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs