Kicking The Boxscore
You knew it was coming, but hey, at least I made it through a few days before trying to slam or tap the brakes on the Edwin Jackson love affair.
via d.yimg.com
To state the obvious, he’s not going to possess a 0.93 WHIP or 0.64 ERA
for the rest of the year, month, and probably not even the week. His numbers
thus far are simply a mirage and the lake that lies ahead is actually a patch
of quicksand. He’s going to sink, and fast. Take a look at

I’m sure you notice that

By now, if you’ve been reading me for any amount of time,
you know how much I stress the old xBABIP – BABIP method of finding whether a
pitcher is lucky or unlucky so you can surely guess my feelings on
As for Jason Hammel, all of his numbers look dead on, and
his K/BB rate is at an even 4, higher than any of his previous numbers, but
otherwise nothing to worry about. If the Rays are going to move one of them in a
trade once the rotation gets healthy, I hope for our sake they pick
In case you were wondering about James Shields, his problem is simply a slight increase in walks; his BB/9 jumped a full walk, from 1.5 to 2.5 during the 18 innings he’s thrown. Don’t be too concerned, he walked five in this first 19 innings last year before settling in.
Last year about 30% of Carlos Pena’s flyballs went for homeruns, keep that in mind when his percentage falls from the current 42.9 range down towards 25-30.
Believe it or not Carl Crawford is hitting more line drives
than he’s ever done before. Nearly 23% of his balls in play have been of the
liner variety, making it likely that his .227 BABIP, and therefore slump, will
soon end.
If Eric Hinske seems more patient than before it’s because he has been. A 4.16 P/PA is 0.07 pitches more per PA than his previous career high. Carlos Pena is also seeing a career high, 4.5 pitches. Jonny Gomes meanwhile is seeing the fewest pitches per plate appearance since his rookie year.
Another note I’d like to address, but not spend a whole post
on, is B.J. Upton’s defense. Thus far it’s been terrible and the excuses for
his poor play only irritate me more. If I have to hear that the ball has a
weird break or tail on it when
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30 comments
Comments
Upton and Ejax
First off, great post and synopsis on issues going on right now.
I couldn't agree more on E-Jax. However, is it possible that Jackson is pitching better and his peripherals just haven't shown that? In the brief moments I have seen him it does seem that he is locating better than before. I don't believe he has improved to a level that his ERA and win-loss show, but I do think he is a better pitcher than before. One problem with the small sample size is that it can be influenced by the teams he has played, things that even them self out over time (for example, the Mariners have the least amount of K's in the majors this year).
On BJ, he was absolutely terrible in the Saturday night game. He seems to have the most problems with balls hit right on him. It looks like he freezes a bit too long and then has problems catching back up to where he should be. It'll be interesting to compare his pre-pitch placement this year to last. Everyone has been talking about how he is playing much closer this year. He may start to play a little deeper to allow for a little more reaction time.
by tallyray on Apr 13, 2008 5:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Sure, it's possible. One interesting thing I'd like to add is that across the board Jackson's velo has been slightly down. I'm guessing he's attempting to not overthrow as much:
FB
07 94.1
08 93.4
SL
07 86.3
08 84.7
CH
07 85.6
08 85.0
Getting a slightly bigger velo difference between his FB/SL/CH can only help him deceive hitters and in theory control his pitches better.
"Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic." - Robert S. Weider
by R.J. Anderson on Apr 13, 2008 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good post, R.J.
You pretty much summed up my opinion of Jackson perfectly. The peripherals just don't suggest Jackson has improved that much from his previous models, and I think that eventually he'll regress as his luck comes down from exceedingly high levels.
by Patrick L. Kennedy on Apr 13, 2008 6:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Consider his five hits would've been (using his career %)
Around 5+ bases or at least one run, and that's assuming bases empty with nobody out.
"Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic." - Robert S. Weider
by R.J. Anderson on Apr 13, 2008 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm gonna go out on a limb and just say
by Cory Alexander on Apr 13, 2008 6:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hopefully he does until we can trade him.
"Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic." - Robert S. Weider
by R.J. Anderson on Apr 13, 2008 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Taking pitches
This is the biggest glare for me right now. I really don't have a lot of complaints except the team on offense needs to take more pitches. Building those opposing pitch counts up is what is important to me.
If E-Jax can get a good start in, then I would think that Hammel is the one that goes when Kazmir is ready to start.
Joe
by joedobr on Apr 13, 2008 6:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If this quick start has created a reasonable deal out there for Jackson, I'd jump on it ASAP. His control still has him on the verge of problems and as soon as the balls start falling in as they inevitably will, he will be right back at expected levels.
by RATW on Apr 13, 2008 6:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
"Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic." - Robert S. Weider
by R.J. Anderson on Apr 13, 2008 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As for Niemann
Just like Longoria, he should stay, period. He will have some pains sure, but his upside is tremendous. Amazing that there are just 5 rotation spots and my guess is it would be Kazmir (when he comes back), Shields, Niemann, Jackson and Hammel (until Garza comes back). I don't think Hammel is going to be a big time starter here, but there are definitely candidates to make the bullpen stronger if need be. E-Jax is making a case for himself.
I understand the sentiment in trading E-Jax. If a deal can be made for a catcher, its something to consider. I hope Navi can be the answer.
Joe
by joedobr on Apr 13, 2008 6:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Welcome back, Joe
Nice to see you around.
by Patrick L. Kennedy on Apr 13, 2008 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aside
I'm not saying it's possible, but can we please free Matt Kemp?
"Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic." - Robert S. Weider
by R.J. Anderson on Apr 13, 2008 8:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Depodesta must be loving that situation...
by tallyray on Apr 13, 2008 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DePodesta will probably bring him to San Diego.
"Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic." - Robert S. Weider
by R.J. Anderson on Apr 13, 2008 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jackson
Admittedly I give Edwin Jackson a little too much credit. But, a lot of time power pitchers need some time to adjust and learn how to throw strikes and use their offspeed pitches. Greg Maddux started out as a power pitcher and it took some time for him to utilize his offspeed pitches and find the strike zone. Comparing Edwin Jackson's stats last season (his first full season) and Maddux's first full season shows the two are not that much different considering K/9 and H/9 and W/9. The next year Maddux turned it around and his strikeouts went down in the same manner as Jackson's have so far (very small sample size).
by FanDisplaced on Apr 13, 2008 9:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Problem is the H/9 stat
One big number error jumped out at me above, but it only goes to reinforce your point RJ.
His H/9 in 2007 in Tampa was 10.9, not 7.4. Just makes the current number drop stick out even more. And it's hard for me to place much meaning on a .7 MPH FB decline, especially given we're talking about his first 2 starts of the season. If Jax had the kind of delievry control such a subtle change would require, this whole conversation would likely be moot. Seems to me a look at his comparable BABIPs could be telling, but the basis of the problem with this whole analysis is Sx4 - Small Successful Sample Size!
Comparing Jackson to Maddux is beyond reason. I know your intentions are good and you're hoping for the best, and I truly applaud that. That's what good fans do - I do the same. I keep hoping Mussina's 90+ fastball reappears - talk about blind faith!
But Jackson has posted 4 consecutive full seasons of mediocre to poor performance in the majors and the minors - the only exception in that time is a decent 11 start, 63 IP stint in AA in 2005 (hence the Rays making the '06 deal - well that, and that Baez sucks & Carter was cooked). Maddux rocketed to the show, making his debut in his 2nd year of full season ball in '86 and spending only 4 more outstanding AAA starts there in '87 after that. His first Cubs season was rocky, but he returned to the consistently good performance level he demonstrated without fail in the minors the very next year and maintained it forward. This bears no resemblance to Jackson's performance track whatever. I don't care if Maddux's '87 resembles Jax's 2007 - that ignores the full context that shows the true picture. It also bears noting that in Mad Dog's first outstanding majors year in '88, he was 22 years old, 21 in his learning curve '87 season. Bear in mind I'm no Maddux fan - though I highly respect his craft. The epitome of the non-"tools" highly successful pitcher. Dead opposite of E-Jax to me. Take a look at his actual comparables in Baseball Reference. Strangely no Maddux.
Jackson is young and still could improve, but his is not the career history evidenced by solid MLB starters, and certainly not Maddux's. I don't know if there is any example of a pitcher with Jackson's portfolio going on to any kind of consistent success in the Majors. Of course he could be the first. But if there is I'd bet it was as a reliever, which I've always thought was Jax's chance of real success in the bigs. Assuming the coming Rays starters continue to develop, I hope for his sake I'm right about that.
by nyyfaninlaaland on Apr 14, 2008 2:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
E-Jax
Only time will tell if E-Jax is actually an improved pitcher this year. Call me crazy but I really think he will end this season with far better numbers than everybody thinks. When he was a prospect in the Dodger's system he breezed through hitters with his overpowering, high-90's fastball creating loads of hype and promise. Now that he has had a solid amount of major league experience I think he finally figured out that he cannot just rear back and let loose that ridiculous fastball of his with the same outcomes of his minor league opponents. This year his velocity is down but it is very apparent that his location has improved. Everyone knows that a well-located 93 mph pitch is much more effective than a poorly -located 98mph rocket. At least hold off on all the negativity toward the kid until he has a bad outing. Because so far this season he is the best pitcher on the Rays.
by TLane82 on Apr 13, 2008 9:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm not being negative, just being realistic.
"Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic." - Robert S. Weider
by R.J. Anderson on Apr 13, 2008 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Consider the speed delta
A change of 7/10's of a MPH is well within the variability of normal fastballs delivered in a single start. It is a meaningless difference. His velocity IS NOT DOWN. If he was in fact delivering FB's at 98 (which could be attributable to gun variabilty), but his average was 94, how did .7 become a significant change?
The change is H/9. 10.9 in '07 (pretty much his career avg), 4.5 in 2 '08 starts. A slower fastball isn't less hittable. Better location could be a factor, but his BB/9 isn't down that much - his strike % is exactly the same. His contact rate is down, but his K rate isn't up. His P/PA is down a bit, so he's getting hit a bit earlier in the count, and given the reduced contact rate the strikes have been put in play faster. His BABIP must be way down - don't have that either. And you know what many analysts say that means - think horseshoes, 4-leaf clovers, rabbit's feet. I don't have his pitch mix data either, but either he's really changed that (learning how to pitch), his FB has significantly more movement (learned a new one, check pitch f/x data), or he's simply been very lucky in these 2 starts. Evidence for either of the first 2 could give the faithful hope.
Perhaps "Mr Stat" RJ could enlighten us further if he has the necessary data access. I'm not big on digging up these deep details - why, when there's RJ!
by nyyfaninlaaland on Apr 14, 2008 3:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think there is an intention to be negative, it is merely an assessment, one as a Rays fan I hope he proves wrong.
by RATW on Apr 13, 2008 9:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I don't think there is a Rays fan here that doesn't want to see Edwin Jackson succeed. He is likable personally, and he is one of ours. Good performance from him is good for our team, and that is ultimately what we all want to see. So hopefully Jackson does prove us wrong, but the facts would indicate that he will not.
by Patrick L. Kennedy on Apr 14, 2008 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
On the other hand
if the positive numbers are a mirage, not based on some measurable change - and this is a measurable thing if the right numbers are looked at as I was trying to suggest above - then it could be a good thing to try to move E-Jax at a possible spike in value. The small sample size is an issue -but the pitch level sample is a bit bigger.
Kaz and Garza look to be returning sooner rather than later. 2 guys will have to move. Niemann can be sent back down, but either Jax, Hammel, or Sonny's role will change. If detailed analysis shows Jax to likely be smoke and mirrors, wouldn't striking a deal while the iron might be hot be wise? If there's real progress, ride it and see.
by nyyfaninlaaland on Apr 14, 2008 3:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Hopefully he continues to find success wherever, but based on the available information, I'd deal Jackson because the likelihood that his improved stats are a mirage is so high.
by Patrick L. Kennedy on Apr 14, 2008 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Most definitely agree
RJ would love to see E-Jax prove him wrong
"I'd hate to leave right when the getting is good." -CC
by Matt Bishoff on Apr 14, 2008 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't E-Jax
start out as an outfielder when he was first drafted? That means he's only been a pitcher for say 5 years or so. Maybe the guy is just finally getting the hang of things? I've never been a huge fan of him but why not give the guy a chance for a little bit while he's actually playing some pretty decent baseball. We've been too patient with him and gone through too many painful outings to just trade him away when he makes a couple of quality starts in a row.
by ams05g on Apr 14, 2008 6:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No
Jackson has pitched since he was drafted by Los Angeles. His first year was in 2001. Again, the available information suggests that he is not merely "getting the hang of things", he's just getting lucky. It is true. We have been too patient with him and we have gone through too many bad starts with him. So we should use this opportunity in which he actually does, by some incredible fortune, pitch well to trade him for good value. If we trade him at the height of his value after a couple quality starts, that will be the best course.
by Patrick L. Kennedy on Apr 14, 2008 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was drafted
originally as an outfielder, but I didn't realize it was all the way back in 2001. I guess that is plenty of time to learn how to pitch haha... what would you want or expect to get in return for him?
by ams05g on Apr 14, 2008 5:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm really bad at that
I can't do trade rumors. Defining expectations for me in terms of a specific player is really difficult for me to do. I'd know a good deal when I saw one.
by Patrick L. Kennedy on Apr 14, 2008 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously EJ doesn’t deserve an ERA under 1.00. But considering his ERA last year was much higher than deserved (about 5.70 vs. about 5.00) and he’s improved his K/BB rate so far, that’s awesome. His xFIP (skills-based ERA-like number) is currently 4.67. If he throws 180 IP at a 4.67 ERA, that’s a good fourth starter and an excellent fifth starter.
The newly improved Tampa defense is paying off already.
by Sky Kalkman on Apr 15, 2008 6:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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