Carlos Pena
I was sitting in my barber shop waiting area today reading a Sporting News magazine from the beginning of the season. As most sports magazines did, they previewed each team and predicted where they would finish. The trend for the Rays 2008 preview is a little talk about them making it to .500 this year, a little talk about Longoria, and then a tangent about how there is no way Carlos Pena can follow up 2008 with anything close to his 2007 season. While no one could have expected his 46 home runs last season, why is it such a stretch to think he could be just as good this year? Here we are two weeks into the season, and he already has six home runs. And not only that, but it seems like every time he hits one, its tying the ballgame, or giving us the lead. He is like Sammy Sosa's antithesis when it comes to home runs. He is only hitting .209 right now, but thats only going to go up. I'm just trying to understand where all the negativity about Pena's numbers dropping off is coming from. 2007 doesn't look like a fluke for him so far. He just looks like a player who has been a journeyman long enough, and has finally put it together. And I am glad he's done it in Tampa.
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Because talking heads assume he was having a career year simply to get paid and don't know about the other metrics that suggest he'll be fine.
"Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic." - Robert S. Weider
by R.J. Anderson on Apr 14, 2008 4:05 PM EDT 0 recs
people seem to judge almost exclusively on trends. i player has been poor for years, hence he will most likely be poor once again. the same is happening around here regarding edwin jackson. people need to see sustained years long success before they accept that a small sample size of great performance is not an aberration.
by davidsmarch on Apr 14, 2008 4:07 PM EDT 0 recs
It's not the same with Edwin Jackson
Because Carlos Pena was an established major leaguer with some success prior to his having been cut by Detroit. Jackson was just a completely failure in the major leagues and Triple A from 2004 onward. Obviously sustained success is the only way to disprove an aberration, that is entirely correct and it's the way it should be. I don't think Pena will match his 2007 season, but I think he will have a 35-40 homer season and his OPS probably won't decrease by more that .100 points.
by Patrick L. Kennedy on
Apr 14, 2008 5:29 PM EDT
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if you consider Pena prior to TB an established major leager
then you have much lower standards then i do. 4 teams in 5 years, never hitting above .250 when playing a full season, actually only playing 3 what one could consider full seasons, of which only one was respectable (27HR, 82 RBI's), after which he was promptly dropped, and signed by the Red Sox and yankees, playing in the minors for most of the year. I'm sorry, but i don't consider that to be established in any way.
by davidsmarch on
Apr 14, 2008 6:04 PM EDT
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His trend numbers from 2005 showed he was capable of being a very productive major leaguer, and he did have a career OPS+ over 105, including a run of 110+, so he was hardly dog meat.
"Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic." - Robert S. Weider
by R.J. Anderson on
Apr 14, 2008 6:16 PM EDT
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Pena
The number of teams doesn't matter. He played with Detroit for three seasons and part of a fourth. He had 1685 at bats going into 2007, and posted OPS+ of 108, 113, and 112 with the Tigers. He had a 106 OPS+ in '02. He was an established player with the Tigers. His numbers weren't great for first base, but he certainly moved into the realm of "established". Jackson hasn't seen anywhere near that much success.
by Patrick L. Kennedy on
Apr 14, 2008 6:17 PM EDT
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I'll take 35 to 40 home runs
I said I didn't expect him to hit 46 every year, but theres no reason why he can't averge around 35 for the next few years, especially if Upton is hitting behind him and can really establish himself as a RBI/Power threat. Just consider Pena's 6 RBI, 2 HR game in which he accounted for the first 6 runs against the O's and got the bases loaded walk to give us the lead. He just stands out to me as a clutch individual.
And Edwin Jackson, while he may turn in a pretty good year, is a little different. He gets no respect because he hasn't earned any. Hopefully he will break out this year the way Pena did last year.
by jacksontsmith on Apr 14, 2008 6:15 PM EDT 0 recs
There was no guarantee that Pena would repeat 2007, there never can be with a situation like that, but there were some positive indicators. One, he decreased his strikeout rate a bit which allowed him to hit for a higher average. Two, he was productive within normal variance all season long after the slow start instead of having a really hot few weeks that boosted an otherwise lesser season. Three, he never hit well against lefties before yet over the season he learned and was very productive against them by the end, suggesting that he was developing his game further while having that monster season as opposed to it simply being a flukish increase in his expected production.
We still don't know of course if he'll repeat 2007, that was an incredible year. The signs are positive so far though, he did strike out a lot more than normal over the first two weeks but he was looking pretty jumpy at times and appears to have settled down over the weekend. He's still crushing the ball, making it pretty much inevitable that the singles and doubles will come, and the walk rate is very high. Hell, he has a .324 EqA right now despite the extremely low BA.
by Jim Wisinski on Apr 14, 2008 6:27 PM EDT 0 recs
Edwin v Pena
Edwin fits the profile of a player that could experience a breakout like Pena did last year. Very highly touted recruit that couldn’t figure a certain aspect of their game out (throwing stikes and hitting lefties), and once they figure that out they are very good players.
Re: Pena’s dropoff.
I think must people expect his average to come back down to earth as he has never been a .290 guy.
by rglass44 on Apr 15, 2008 1:41 PM EDT 0 recs
In that regard, Edwin and Pena could be alike
In that they were both touted prospects that were underperforming. Unfortunately the similarities stop there. There is no logical reason to assume that Jackson will follow the dramatic improvement that Pena did. There was a decent chance that Pena would at least turn out to be okay last year when the Rays signed him. Obviously no one could have predicted his outburst, but there was a cange that he would at least be sufficient. With Jackson, there is no statistical basis for prognosticating that.
by Patrick L. Kennedy on
Apr 15, 2008 2:16 PM EDT
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Indeed there is
I just don’t happen to have much. Though I do hope that Jackson does succeed and prove me wrong, as I’ve said numerous times. He’s a likable guy.
by Patrick L. Kennedy on
Apr 15, 2008 3:30 PM EDT
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