Ruggiano optioned to Durham
by davidsmarch on Apr 24, 2008 11:24 PM EDT
64 comments
From the Tribune's Marc Lancaster:
Following the game, the Rays optioned Justin Ruggiano back to Durham to open a spot for Matt Garza coming off the disabled list tomorrow.
I will say, i liked having Ruggiano up here. but with Gross in the mix, it seems that whoever was that last outfielder was only going to get very minimal AB's, and I have to agree when Maddon says:
"We haven’t had much of an opportunity to use him. We’re kind of covered in the outfield right now, so we primarily wanted him to get more at-bats and sent him back to do that."
Haynes may not fit in with our long term team plan, but i can see the wisdom in sending Ruggiano back to continue his development.
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I agree with Maddon too
Ruggiano is a fan favorite and potentially a better player than others who could have been sent down or released. But we just couldn’t offer him the number of AB’s he needs to have to be that impact RF. Until they let him play every day, he’ll be in Durham. Don’t worry, Haynes will be the one that the Rays will have to let go when Kazmir comes up.
by Rays Rule on Apr 25, 2008 12:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
BTW,
Thanks for hopping on this one quickly, David. I appreciate having something up quick like this to discuss. You sure beat us to the punch; I wouldn’t have gotten to this until tomorrow morning, at the earliest.
by Patrick L. Kennedy on Apr 25, 2008 12:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
no problem,
i like to think that some of us non-employees actually contribute to making the site better.
by davidsmarch on Apr 25, 2008 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Employees?
That’s harsh.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on Apr 25, 2008 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
also, thanks for cleaning it up for me, i’ll have to work on that.
by davidsmarch on Apr 25, 2008 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh it wasn't that much.
I just had to add attribution and distinguish quotes. No big deal.
by Patrick L. Kennedy on Apr 25, 2008 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How is it we can give guys in the bullpen chance after chance, but barely give Ruggs a chance to prove he is ready? I really don’t think there would be much difference between Ruggs number and Murtton/Gross/Johnson or any other OF.
by JBrooks31 on Apr 25, 2008 12:36 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Not the same situation
Extended opportunities can be afforded to members of the bullpen since we have previously had a dearth of good personnel there. Not so in the outfield, where the range of available positions is more limited. I don’t think they’re really “giving up” on Ruggiano, quite the contrary I think. They wanted to ensure that he’d be in a position which gave him the best possible chance to be part of the organization’s future, and with a Gomes/Gross platoon, that wasn’t going to be on a major league bench.
by Patrick L. Kennedy on Apr 25, 2008 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's actually Ruggs v. Gomes for the available ABs
by ttnorm on Apr 25, 2008 7:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather have Gomes swinging the stick over Ruggs
www.citadel-insurance.com
by SeanDubbs on Apr 25, 2008 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
how do you figure?
Gomes will platoon both at RF and DH, with Gross and Hinske, respectfully. the way Gomes is hitting, it seems likely that he will/should be playing on most days, same goes for Hinske. The fact that Gross hits righties, Gomes hits lefties, means they are an ideal platoon, if you figure in Hinske to that 2 position triangle.
Ruggiano probably has more promise then any of those 3, but he is still very raw and really wouldn’t have even touched the majors this early in the season if not for the amount of injuries. It makes perfect sense to make sure he will see action every day to continue his progression toward being our every day RF.
by davidsmarch on Apr 25, 2008 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's still early...
But Gomes is hitting better vs. righties right now (.308) than lefties (.250). Also appears to have finally stopped being a walking windmill.
by kericr on Apr 25, 2008 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nobody really should be surprised with this move
by websterjtc on Apr 25, 2008 10:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i also noticed that Reyes through a bullpen session yesterday,
and is apparently looking fine. i assume they will activate him within the next few days. guess that means Birkins is back to AAA?
by davidsmarch on Apr 25, 2008 10:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
EDIT: threw a bullpen session
not “through”
by davidsmarch on Apr 25, 2008 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Gross can get the job done with the glove
There is little value in keeping Haynes around. Last night in the 7th, Maddon left Gross in to face a lefty with a runner in scoring position. At the time I thought Maddon might PH Gomes and bring in Haynes in RF the following inning.
I think his lack of a move there shows either that Maddon has confidence that Gross is a good defensive outfielder, or at the very least, that he is a better hitter than Haynes. If Maddon is just as likely to use Gross in the late innings, Haynes value appears diminished to pinch running situations.
Or maybe Maddon was just reluctant to clear the bench, and I am talking out of my arse.
by GomesSweetGomes on Apr 25, 2008 11:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i assume you are correct
but there’s no need to move Haynes just yet. but when Kazmir comes back, something’s got to give.
by davidsmarch on Apr 25, 2008 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or Salas
We have to cut ties with someone currently on the 40-Man once he comes off the restricted list.
www.citadel-insurance.com
by SeanDubbs on Apr 25, 2008 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And thats probably what will happen...
I would imagine Salas could be activated and optioned around the time Floyd is ready to come back.
That would make the most sense I think. Floyd steps back into the DH role, Hinske starts every day in RF and Gross assumes the role of late inning defensive replacement.
by Vin on Apr 25, 2008 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don't see that happening
we picked up Gross specifically b/c he is a much better fielder then Hinske. putting hinske in RF on most days would be a poor decision in my opinion. Gross seems most likely to play most in RF, with Gomes picking up some time out there too, and i imagine Hinske will aswell. It will be a 4 person platoon in RF and DH, but i imagine that Hinske and Floyd will see the most time at DH.
I also don’t see Salas being optioned down. He’ll rehab, and become a good part of our bullpen. He has shown he can do it well, and it would be a boon to our already decent bullpen have his arm out there.
by davidsmarch on Apr 25, 2008 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would imagine..
The front office is working the phones hard trying to trade Aybar or Guzman for a low lvl prospect, neither have a future with the Rays. Ryu is probably going to be DFA here pretty soon as well. We might see E-Jax or Hammel get traded fairly soon as well. Neimann is ready and can do much better than E-Jax.
www.citadel-insurance.com
by SeanDubbs on Apr 25, 2008 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well,
Floyd can’t play the field and he’s certainly not going to ride the bench. His only value to the team is as an everyday DH and since he’s left handed, the only person who should split time (should the need arise) with him is Gomes.
Gross is an all glove, no bat guy who can draw a walk. You’re really over-valuing him as he’s just an upgrade over Haynes. Friedman even said he broke off his pursuit of Gross when they picked up Haynes at the end of spring training. So the little sacrifice of having a sub-par defender in right will be well worth having Hinske’s bat in the line-up.
Salas hasn’t pitched in a real game since what, September? He’s most definitely going to have to spend some time in the minors. Besides, the only fringe guys in the bullpen are pitching way over their heads and I’m not entirely convinced a single one of them is going to go when Kazmir comes off the DL. So I really, really doubt that Salas (the only member of the ‘pen outside of our 2.53 ERA longman who can be optioned) is going to bump anyone from the active, and consequently, 40-man roster.
by Vin on Apr 25, 2008 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with david
I think you are undervaluing Gross—his track record suggests he can hit, but just not as much power as a typical corner.
As for Hinske, he has hit very well but his numbers suggest to me he should remain a platoon player and playing in the field as little as necessary.
by RATW on Apr 25, 2008 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which track record is that?
He’s never really hit for average (except for 06, sorta) and is completely useless against LH pitching (career .089/.261/.161). He can draw a walk, yeah. And a good number of his hits seem to go for extra bases. But RF isn’t a defensively demanding enough position to have his .606 OPS playing everyday. He’s a very, very good upgrade over Haynes, but I really don’t see him as anything more than that.
Besides, if Hinske playing right means having both his and Floyd’s bat in the line-up, then I’m ok with it.
by Vin on Apr 25, 2008 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is that even useful
after 4 years in the majors?
by Vin on Apr 25, 2008 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not really 4 years in the majors though
It’s 600 at-bats over four years.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on Apr 25, 2008 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bah
600 at-bats or not, its still 4 years of seeing ML pitching.
by Vin on Apr 25, 2008 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He hasn’t even been up four full years (more like two), unless the 843 minor league at-bats from 2004-2007 came from his part-time night job on the side. He’s only started in a total of 155 games before this season.
But playing by your rules, here are the major league track records of the two players…
Hinkse: career 777 OPS (32 years old)
Gross: career 743 OPS (28 years old)
Maybe Hinske will have a Greg Norton 2006 type year, but he will regress from this current 2007 Pena pace and his arm and range are just plain bad in RF. He should not be the every day RF. He plays enough positions and with Floyd being brittle, he will still get time at DH while Floyd rests or nurses another injury, so it’s not like Hinske would be wasting on the bench with Gross in RF.
by RATW on Apr 25, 2008 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not advocating
anyone should/will be the everyday RF. I haven’t really been clear on that at all, I guess. But if I had to choose between Hinske and Gross getting the bulk of playing time in RF, I’d take Hinske.
And with Hinske is playing way over his career line and Gross is playing well below his, I don’t see how that wouldn’t be the right decision. Until/unless Hinske crashes (and I mean crashes) back to earth, of course.
by Vin on Apr 25, 2008 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're not getting it with Salas
Once he comes off the restricted list someone must get bumped from the 40-Man or he has to clear waivers and we’ll certainly lose him. He was already on the 40-Man, but was placed on the restricted list to make room for Haynes when we picked him up. So while he may not bump anyone from the 25 he’ll absolutely bump someone from the 40.
www.citadel-insurance.com
by SeanDubbs on Apr 25, 2008 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes, i know all that,
what’s your point? it was stated earlier that Salas would get optioned down to AAA, and i don’t see that happening. i understand once he’s reinstated someone has to go from the 40 man, that’s not new news, but that has nothing to do with where he’ll end up pitching.
by davidsmarch on Apr 25, 2008 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that was pointed towards me
I guess I could have worded it a little better ::rolleyes::
here:
Besides, the only fringe guys in the bullpen are pitching way over their heads and I’m not entirely convinced a single one of them is going to go when Kazmir comes off the DL. So I really, really doubt that Salas (the only member of the ‘pen outside of our 2.53 ERA longman who can be optioned) is going to bump anyone who is currently in the bullpen from the active, and consequently, 40-man roster since only Howell has options and is pitching very well.
by Vin on Apr 25, 2008 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
See Vin Above David
Either way Ryu is going to be gone soon.
www.citadel-insurance.com
by SeanDubbs on Apr 25, 2008 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How do you figure?
Unless they plan on reinstating Rocco or reinstating and keeping Orvella theres no reason/need to DFA Ryu.
by Vin on Apr 25, 2008 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well then..
Who is a better candidate to get booted once Salas comes off the Restricted List?
www.citadel-insurance.com
by SeanDubbs on Apr 25, 2008 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Josh Hamilton
Err…......already tried that….......
by Patrick L. Kennedy on Apr 25, 2008 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm not sure how that list is supposed to help
by davidsmarch on Apr 25, 2008 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seems pretty self-explanatory.
Just a list for reference. The meaning of life isn’t exactly coded in there anywhere.
www.citadel-insurance.com
by SeanDubbs on Apr 25, 2008 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Meaning of life = 3
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on Apr 25, 2008 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no, it's not self explanatory
that list is useless, as it’s not even up to date. you want an up to date 40-man, go to the team website, which is where i go.
for your reference, it’s at: www.raysbaseball.com
by davidsmarch on Apr 25, 2008 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is the meaning of life in that one?
www.citadel-insurance.com
by SeanDubbs on Apr 25, 2008 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
does “Tossed Salas” need to be put on the 40-man?
by websterjtc on Apr 25, 2008 12:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Within two weeks I believe.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on Apr 25, 2008 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Er not two weeks, within 20-something days.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on Apr 25, 2008 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unless someone gets severly injured
He’s probably going to spend the max alloted time on the Restricted List. No need to rush.
www.citadel-insurance.com
by SeanDubbs on Apr 25, 2008 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm pretty sure
he can’t pitch anywhere unless he’s removed from the list, is that wrong?
by davidsmarch on Apr 25, 2008 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Three weeks then,
Forgetting the fact that a 40-man roster spot will most likely be freed up when Kazmir comes back from the DL:
The prognosis on Cliff Floyd is good via Andy Friedman so a mid-May return seems likely. Seeing as how Nathan Haynes presence on the roster right now is completely unnecessary, it’ll be even more redundant when Floyd comes back. So DFA’ing Haynes would free up a 25-man roster spot for Floyd and a 40-man roster spot for Salas and that works out perfectly since they’re both going to need one at, seemingly, the exact same time.
No need to DFA Ryu. Even if Floyd isn’t ready, DFA’ing Haynes and calling up Ruggiano for a few days would make more sense than DFA’ing Ryu.
End rant.
by Vin on Apr 25, 2008 3:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i agree with all that
and it does seem to solve our problem. that would suck for Ruggiano though, and it doesn’t seem to make much sense to do it like that when they could just have DFA’d Haynes now.
by davidsmarch on Apr 25, 2008 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then when is Ruggs supposed to play?
Sending him down was the right move. He needs to work on quite a few things at the plate and he can’t do that riding the pine for the Rays. His plate discipline isn’t up to par and more time in Durham is what he needs. Ruggs isn’t on the same talent level as Longoria and making adjustments in AAA will allow him to progress faster than being up with the big boys.
With Haynes there is no expectations for him to become anything more than what he already is and if Upton or CC were to get injured he’d be guaranteed playing time from at least the 7th inning on on a nightly basis, especially if we’re protecting a lead. Picture a defense with CC in left, Gross in center, and Hinske/Gomes in right. Not pretty.
The front office is doing the right thing by waiting until the last possible minute to DFA Haynes. We call call up Ruggs in 2 minutes if needed. That said, Haynes will be gone on Sunday when Kaz is activated anyways.
As for Ryu, he’ll never be anything more than a bird killing AAA pitcher. He’ll be DFA when Salas comes back unless a trade or injury happens between now and then.
www.citadel-insurance.com
by SeanDubbs on Apr 25, 2008 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
where have you been,
i’ve been advocating that it was right to send Ruggiano down. in fact, i started this thread just to say that.
my last comment was in reference to the comment above that stated that “DFA’ing Haynes and calling up Ruggiano for a few days would make more sense than DFA’ing Ryu.”
i don’t disagree with sending down Ruggiano, all i was saying is that doing what was just mentioned would suck for him.
by davidsmarch on Apr 25, 2008 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're right.
I misread. I apologize.
www.citadel-insurance.com
by SeanDubbs on Apr 25, 2008 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I swear
nobody knows what anyone else is talking about and everyone should just give up on the internet altogether.
by Vin on Apr 25, 2008 4:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
it's all good,
anyone have the inside scoop on the McGee/Davis article over on BA today?
by davidsmarch on Apr 25, 2008 4:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Didn't see it
I should really get a BA subscription. The problem is money. BP, I’ve got covered. BA? Not so much.
by Patrick L. Kennedy on Apr 25, 2008 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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