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Too Much, Too Young, Too Fast

 

Topkin and his St. Pete Times' Sunday column:

In a WFAN radio interview, principal owner Stuart Sternberg said the payroll will go up "the next 2-3 years as well,"

This is not a risky statement whatsoever. Per my projections the Rays are due to have payrolls of roughly 38 million and 41 million over the next two years (with the re-signings) with a number of cases up in the air. While we were playing the "trade" game Derek Lowe's name came up, if we wanted him, and I don't know if the Rays do, they could surely afford him.

ESPN.com's Rob Neyer says B.J. Upton is "probably not as good as his little brother" (Justin) but he's "guessing" the Rays have a long-term deal done by the All-Star break. … Kazmir said "I will be" a salesman to try to get Upton signed

Rob Neyer is almost certainly right, Justin Upton is the devourer of worlds, B.J. can only hope to become Justin. In the meantime B.J. can try and improve his awful baserunning, he only has five caught stealings, but I'm guessing at least five baserunning miscues so far.

As for Kaz selling, I could make many, many jokes here, but I'll bite my tongue.

There were an awful lot of scouts watching Edwin Jackson's last start

No teams are mentioned, and I'd rather not make this into an Edwin Jackson pissing match, but if the Rays feel his peripherals are a house of cards like I do, it would be in their best interest to cash in during his highest value if they can get a good deal. The truth is I'm not sure if there's a position we could use help at.

Also we didn't touch on the John Romano column that speculated this:

 

Does that mean Sternberg would have an army of lawyers seeking ways to break the lease for a possible move to Charlotte or Portland? The closer we get to the stadium's debt service being paid off in 2017, the more plausible that prospect will seem. Does it mean Sternberg will talk to investment bankers about selling the team? That's harder to imagine but, like Lightning owner Bill Davidson, he is an out-of-town businessman with no loyalties here.

Let's place what we seemingly know about Sternberg on the table, shall we:

1. He's pretty damn smart.

2. He knows how to make money.

3. He likes baseball.

4. He's a good guy.

If Sternberg were to attempt to move or sell the team that means I just lied about Sternberg being a smart person. There is no other market for baseball that has the potential to be as fruitful as this one, even if the team doesn't get a new stadium, it's only the first attempt. Major League Baseball doesn't like to move teams, in case you hadn't noticed. Number two would also be wrong if Sternberg were to sell, why sell when the team still has value to gain? That's not sell high/buy low, that's buy low, sell a little higher.

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Neyer

He had no need to use “probably.” Bossman isn’t nearly as good as his brother. His brother is the best player to come into the league since Hammy. I heart him…I mean…nevermind

Tools Whore

Sign Bonds!

by Tyler on May 17, 2008 10:00 PM EDT   0 recs

If the Rays re-sign BJ to a decent length contract

Is there a player we CAN’T resign?

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on May 17, 2008 10:15 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

No, there really isn't

Tools Whore

Sign Bonds!

by Tyler on May 17, 2008 10:18 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Kaz can sell anything

even not smoking.

Top Josh Paul Pornos- Big Navi Stroking, 2pitchers1cup, BJ to the Balls

BELIEVE in 08!

by SRQman on May 17, 2008 10:44 PM EDT   0 recs

You're so close to making the joke I would've made.

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on May 17, 2008 11:01 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I avoided it....

intentionally.

Top Josh Paul Pornos- Big Navi Stroking, 2pitchers1cup, BJ to the Balls

BELIEVE in 08!

by SRQman on May 17, 2008 11:10 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Kaz might have some pull

with Bossman. They’re tight.

Tools Whore

Sign Bonds!

by Tyler on May 17, 2008 11:26 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I will say it

Kazmir is selling weed….Damn that pot head is good at pitching, business deals, and talkin to the ladies

Mound Visit

by Mound Visit on May 19, 2008 2:05 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Link to Sternberg on WFAN: http://podcast.wfan.com/wfan/1089795.mp3

9 = 8

by websterjtc on May 17, 2008 11:09 PM EDT   0 recs

Lowe to Rays?

Where is the link to the Lowe to Rays chat?
vr, Xei

by Xeifrank on May 18, 2008 3:11 AM EDT   0 recs

I Think The Comments RJ is Referring To

are found here.

People were discussing bringing in a RF, I mentioned it might be a better idea instead to bring in another frontline starter to help with a playoff push.

by floridaroar on May 18, 2008 10:14 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Fans need to do their part

and start showing up for games. First place team still drawing only slightly better than the last place days. It is really sad. I live 2 hours away and I’ll be attending my 3rd game on Saturday and I’d venture to guess I have been to more games than 98% of the bay area. Even the Bucs draw better percentages than during the 80’s

by Jason Collette on May 18, 2008 8:33 AM EDT   0 recs

Lost in the shuffle yesterday was Tasereyes pitching well.

9 = 8

by websterjtc on May 18, 2008 11:07 AM EDT   0 recs

Look. There is no way the Rays will be playing in the Trop in year 2027, which is tthe year the lease ends. We will either lose the Rays or they will get the new stadium.

i read this in the SPT i think

9 = 8

by websterjtc on May 18, 2008 11:10 AM EDT   0 recs

We won't lose the Rays..

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on May 18, 2008 11:11 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Rays May Move

If you think the Rays won’t move, I have three words for you: New Jersey Nets. The Nets were owned by a great guy who made millions on Wall Street and wanted to move the team to Newark for altruistic reasons. People questioned the move because, despite the huge potential fan base, the team didn’t draw even after it started winning. When the NJ politicians rejected his bid, he didn’t continue to bang his head against a wall by spending more money on lobbying efforts. He simply cashed out by selling the team for a huge profit to a developer with plans elsewhere. While Sternberg will make an effort to stay, if he is rejected in 2014, he will do the same.

by flippersfolks on May 18, 2008 11:47 AM EDT   0 recs

I don't see the connection.

You’re talking about the NBA, which I don’t know much about but aren’t the Nets still in New Jersey? There’s been more NBA teams moving in the last 10 years than in the last 60 in MLB.

by floridaroar on May 18, 2008 12:09 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Good Points

Good points all, but there are certainly more parallels than differences. We’re comparing sports franchises, not a sports franchise and a bank. There has been some recent movement in basketball (Hornets, Grizzlies and, soon, Nets), but there is also some recent movement in baseball. The Expos moved to DC and the A’s are moving from Oakland to the suburbs. The Nets are a lame duck in Jersey, and are playing out there last few seasons while the new arena is built in Brooklyn. The Rays could find themselves in the same situation if the voters turn down the referendum and it takes a few years for the new owner to build a stadium in Portland.

by flippersfolks on May 18, 2008 12:46 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

There are no parallels to the NBA, where franchises move all the time (with poor results for their league.. look at Memphis, New Orleans, Charlotte and soon-to-be Oklahoma City) and when building an arena can be more easily justified for its multiple event usage throughout the year compared to the more specific building of an outdoor baseball-only stadium; the availability of pre-existing arenas also provide a significant number of relocation options for NBA teams that just don’t exist for baseball.

The A’s aren’t leaving their market and the Expos situation is a perfect example of just how hard it is to move a franchise. Things had gotten so bad in Montreal in the final years that they were no longer on local TV, no English language coverage at all, attendance had fallen through the floor and the team was then placed in MLB ownership after Jeffrey Loria finished running the team into the ground Naimoli style… and yet they still almost stayed in Montreal.

As for the Rays, once again, attendance will not shoot up overnight. If the team is still in contention come August/September and “nobody” (18,000) is showing up, then concern may be justified.

Longlorious.

by RATW on May 18, 2008 2:08 PM EDT   0 recs

NBA is not exempt from Congressional interfearance, but baseball is. this is why mlb teams rarely move or contract.

9 = 8

by websterjtc on May 18, 2008 2:10 PM EDT   0 recs

Congressional Interference

I think the Congressional exemption is limited to antitrust matters. That doesn’t prevent Congress from getting involved in other aspects of baseball (steroid hearings anyone?). Also, since when does Congressional involvement make it easier to get something (like moving a franchise) done? I know you think the A’s are staying in their market, but the City of Oakland thinks they’re moving. If the Rays move about the same distance to Orlando, will you say “at least they stayed in the market?” In addition, since the Dodgers and Giants moved to California, there is a long history of baseball franchises moving: Washington/Minnesota, Washington/Texas, Seattle/Milwaukee. Some of those are more recent than you think. Things did get pretty bad in Montreal before the Expos moved, but they were talking about “contracting” the Rays a few years ago, so people in other markets may say things are pretty bad in Tampa. The bottom line is this. St. Pete and Florida should approve the new stadium and then all of this debate will be avoided.

by flippersfolks on May 19, 2008 8:39 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Moving from south Oakland to Fremont (25 miles from current stadium to proposed location) is not even close to the same distance as St. Pete to Orlando; it’s much more akin to moving from St. Pete to Tampa.

The Rays aren’t moving, period. Enough with the fear tactics.

Longlorious.

by RATW on May 19, 2008 12:50 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree

RATW, but I thought John Romano wrote an insightful column a few days ago in which he looked at longer range implications of turning down the new stadium. As I recall, one of his points was that there is no threat to move the Rays if it fails, nor does he see Sternberg seeking to do so, but that the reality is that there will be less reason for him to remain the owner and he could more easily consider selling to someone who had even less commitment here.

Again, he is not suggesting that Sternberg is using or will use such scare tactics, but there is implicit in the situation a pressure to move on if the new stadium fails.

by bobr on May 19, 2008 1:05 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Sternberg and Moving

I didn’t mean to turn this into an argument about whether Oakland is closer to Fremont than Tampa/St. Pete is to Orlando (although if you’ve ever driven in the SF Bay area, you know it may take the same amount of time to get there). I’m also not threatening anyone; I’m just saying this situation has parallels to a situation that I already saw play out. That was my original point. Sternberg is a good guy. He hasn’t threatened to move and won’t threaten to move. Just like the NJ Nets owner. When the state turned him down flat, he didn’t throw a tantrum or issue threats. He was a rational, successful businessman and simply cashed out. Sternberg will do the same. It’s the owner that you haven’t seen yet that you have to worry about.

by flippersfolks on May 19, 2008 1:33 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes, we’ve seen this scenario play out with the Florida Marlins.. and after Huizenga, John Henry and Jeffrey Loria, they’re still the Marlins and were never in serious danger of being anything but the Marlins. That is my point. It’s not that easy to move a baseball team unless it is 25 miles to Fremont or 20 miles to Miami. The markets are limited and lack the appeal of Tampa/St. Pete and rival feasible facilities just don’t exist. This isn’t the good ‘ol days when the Rangers and Brewers set up shop in glorified AAA parks with added metal bleachers and called it major league baseball.

Longlorious.

by RATW on May 20, 2008 4:05 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Loria and Moving

I appreciate your point, but the Marlins are getting a new stadium. What would Loria be doing if he didn’t get one? Remember what he did to the Expos (who moved). That being said, Sternberg is nothing like Loria. If Sternberg doesn’t get his stadium, he’ll simply call in an investment banker and sell. Maybe the new owner will be from Tampa/St. Pete and be happy at the Trop. Maybe he won’t. I agree that baseball doesn’t like frachises moving. It still considers it a black eye that 5 teams moved between 1960 and 1971. Still, the owners won’t force someone to play in an unprofitable facility. Those other owners may need support in the future when they are seeking an upgraded facility (or have played that card to get one). In fact, in all those situations were baseball has stepped in at the threat of a move, the result has been a new stadium (or the proimise of a new stadium) in the original city. I’m just saying that you’re playing a dangerous game by saying that there’s no way the team will ever move, and you’re merely calling their bluff by voting down the stadium.

by flippersfolks on May 20, 2008 9:51 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

“Still, the owners won’t force someone to play in an unprofitable facility.”

Those very owners mostly sat still during the Marlins stalled stadium efforts over the past decade while, by almost any measure, the Marlins had the most unprofitable stadium deal in the game.

I like what Sternberg has done almost as much as anyone and have applauded his moves every step of the way, but I would not change my mind one way or the other regarding the stadium vote (for the record: I don’t have a vote in the matter) based on the possibility he might sell out. John Henry cashed in his chips with the Marlins, but it wasn’t the end of the franchise. As long as the market demographics remain viable, someone else will come in and keep pushing, threatening, blackmailing for a new stadium in either St. Pete or Tampa.

Speaking of which, I greatly appreciate that this ownership has, to my knowledge, resisted the urge to use veiled threats to sell the new park plan.

Longlorious.

by RATW on May 20, 2008 9:05 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

bossman will resign with us

i just have the feeling that he will because they stuck with him through all of his struggles and i just know that he doesnt want to leave all of his friends here in tampa so i hopet that they get a deal done by the allstar break that would give us all hope that no one important wont resign with us.

by RaysOfHope on May 18, 2008 8:58 PM EDT   0 recs

Is there a player we CAN’T resign?

I think so. Its not like any of these guys, other than Pena, had any kind of leverage in these situations. BJ Upton should realize he doesnt either, and take the money. The guy played how many seasons in AAA and what was his OPS in 2006? 3 years after his original callup. Look I know he is probably pampered by everyone in his life, but his agent should give him the bare facts and tell him to sign on the dotted line. BJ Upton has more to lose by waiting than the Rays do, IMHO. At worst for the Rays, we have him for 4 more years and trade him before he becomes a FA. Worst case scenario for BJ, he regresses back to BJ of 2005-2007 and/or gets injured and loses out on millions

by blazinrayz on May 19, 2008 4:01 AM EDT   0 recs

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