I would love to be a manager down the line," [Gomes] said. "I come across like just a friggin'...

I would love to be a manager down the line," [Gomes] said. "I come across like just a friggin' caveman but there's definitely a method to the madness if you ever have the time to sit down and talk.

Comments

Say it with me now....

OVER-RATED!

Mound Visit

by Mound Visit on May 19, 2008 4:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Really?

On the basis of what? The fact that he finished 3rd in the ROY voting in 2005?

Outside of the Tampa Bay Area, few people know who this guy is. If he really was over-rated as you suggest I would think I could sit through a home game without hearing someone mis-pronounce his name Gomez.

Amongst die-hard Rays fans, he is typically well-liked personally, but to say he’s over-rated is a stretch.

by GomesSweetGomes on May 19, 2008 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I say it again....

OVER-RATED!

Hell…Maddon doesn’t even like him. How many games has he started again?

Mound Visit

by Mound Visit on May 19, 2008 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well if its just you saying it without anything to back it up

Fine by me. But as I pointed out, and others have agreed to, there is a difference between being a fan favorite and being overrated. When Gomes fans such as myself start claiming we need to start paying attention to all the “little things” he does that don’t show up in the box score, you may have a valid point. Until then it sounds like you have thrown logic out the window because of personal dislike for the guy.

So let me get this straight: Limited playing time is indicative of a player being OVER, not Under-rated?!?

by GomesSweetGomes on May 19, 2008 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Here is me...Backing it up

1) Team’s manager values Gabe Gross more than Jon Gomes = Jon < Gross (And so do I)
2) If gomes had 600 ABs; he would break Dunn’s strike out record EASILY
3) Wiggington > Gomes (Same at the plate but Wiggy can play D-Fense)

Still love the trade for Wheeler though…Damn good trade

Mound Visit

by Mound Visit on May 20, 2008 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe

because he would face a lot more right handers, but his K rate is actually slightly better in his career than Dunn’s (3.11-3.09). Dunn has significantly better home run and BB rates, but Gomes’s are pretty good also. Dunn is almost certainly a better ballplayer, although he is probably a poorer fielder even than Gomes, but Gomes has some real skills at the plate.

As for Wigginton, he is not a particularly good defender either. He does not strike out as much, but he walks considerably less and hits home runs at a much poorer rate as well. Actually the gap in HR and BB rate between him and Gomes is even wider than that between Gomes and Dunn.

I don’t know that Maddon values Gross more. He certainly likes his defense more and given that he is a lefty he gets more chance to face righty pitchers than Gomes does vs. lefties-even with Hinske on the team. But you’ll note that last night Maddon opted for Gomes over Gross when it came time to face a lefty despite the defensive downgrade.

by bobr on May 20, 2008 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

3.09

Can we get some contact please JON?

Mound Visit

by Mound Visit on May 20, 2008 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He does not make enough contact,

but the 3.09 is Dunn’s. His is a still terrible 3.11. I was simply countering your claim that he would break Dunn’s K record. I think he might, a moot point anyway, but his rate of Ks so far is not evidence unless we refine it to estimate what he would do against righties more often.

Ks are not good, but need we go into the issue of whether they are substantially worse than other sorts of outs again?

Dunn is a substantially better hitter, but Gomes has value. His OPS+ has been near league average every year and is slightly above that for his career. He is a threat against lefties with a career .285/.386/.527 line. That is an OPS+ of 130. For a platoon/bench player that is excellent!

by bobr on May 20, 2008 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But he's on the bench

And Maddon doesn’t like him. Therefore he is overrated.

by GomesSweetGomes on May 20, 2008 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rays should get So Taguchi

instead of the REAL KID K: Jon Gomes….How Taguchi are you? Soooooooo

Mound Visit

by Mound Visit on May 21, 2008 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gomes is fairly misunderstood.

He is percieved as a caveman when in fact, he doesn’t use Geico.

There’s so many reasons why people like Jonny.

If you're not having fun, what are you having? There's already WAAAY too many serious moments in life.

by Manny Stiles on May 19, 2008 5:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

lol

Gomes is a fan favorite, he isnt overrated. You dont have to be the most talented guy on the team to be liked by the fans

by blazinrayz on May 19, 2008 5:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

how can gomes be overrated if noone knows who he is but us?

9 = 8

by websterjtc on May 19, 2008 8:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

There's such a thing as being overrated by your own fans. Wigginton for instance.

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on May 19, 2008 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I guess I'm in the minority of Gomes fans then

Because I root for the guy because I like his fan friendliness. Spending as much time at BP and around the cages during spring and in the year, I have seen countless examples of it, whether it be tossing his batting gloves to a kid, or taking time to talk baseball with fans.

At the same time, I completely understand that when fans see guys like him and Wiggy “hustle” it looks like they are working so hard because they aren’t in the physical shape of an Upton or Crawford. I understand he cannot consistently hit a high 90’s fastball. He is a power bat off the bench, and not much more at this point. He has accepted his role, and focused on being a good teammate.

Unless you think that every player should be LIKED OR DISLIKED on the basis of their physical talents alone (which might explain your undying Bonds support) I’m at a loss as to what makes him overrated. And if that is the case, many of those anit-SABR rants aren’t too far off base.

by GomesSweetGomes on May 19, 2008 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No, no.

I felt Wiggy was overrated when people started saying Wiggy > Wheeler.

Navarro’s fat and slow, I have no problem with him.

I don’t think Gomes is overrated either.

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on May 19, 2008 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

OK

Sorry to lump you in there. I just think its odd to see a guy like Gomes called over-rated. Especially given his skill set. Usually its speedy slap hitters and middle infielders who get over-rated. Even Gomes’ most ardent supporters will tell you that its either a K or a HR when he steps to the plate.

by GomesSweetGomes on May 19, 2008 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gomes is a 3TO type.

K, BB, HR, players like Jack Cust/Adam Dunn are examples of a higher end version of Dunn.

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on May 19, 2008 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Of Gomes*

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on May 19, 2008 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know how much better Cust is than Gomes...

Gomes’ career numbers are marred by the injury plagued year, and Cust is older w/ less experience.

Also, doesn’t R-Ho hold the Ks record?

by rglass44 on May 21, 2008 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not overrated

And I think GomesSweetGomes has it exactly right when he distinguishes between being liked and being overrated.

Gomes is a fun player to watch (unless he is striking out with a man on third and 1 out) and apparently very fan friendly. He also has value as a power hitter who also will take a walk despite his wild swings.

I speculated early in the year about what he would do with 500-600 ABs, but that won’t happen soon, and in his role as a part platoon, part bench player he can contribute. I still wonder if he could hit 30+ home runs and manage an OBP over .350, but it is more conjecture than expectation.

I think the comparison to Wigginton is apt in that Ty also was an excellent reserve but ill-suited to start regularly. But because of a few dramatic hits and an earned reputation for hustle and willingness to help the team in any way he was overrated by some who thought he was more valuable to the team than Wheeler.

From what I have read here, I don’t think anyone is overrating Gomes in that way.

by bobr on May 20, 2008 7:36 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs