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Going Slow in a Fast World

Maddonbearlo3_tiny by R.J. Anderson on

I'm guessing Sonnanstine's fastball usage had something to do with his beating today.  On the season he's thrown roughly 36% fastballs, but today 48 of his 100 pitches were of the speed driven variety. To quote Tommy Rancel of OutsPerSwing, "When your fastball is 88, that's not good."

When you're leaving that fastball up, it's also not good.

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via 38.99.108.6

Note the fastballs left in the middle of the zone, that's simply not going to work. To Sonny's credit he threw 64% strikes today, but that's actually lower than his 69% average this year. Really it doesn't appear he pitched bad enough to give up seven earned; 6 innings, 9 hits and a walk, and six strikeouts on 100 pitches. That's a WHIP of 1.66, which isn't good. The two homeruns allowed were the ultimately the most costly.

Rough day for the Rays overall, Sonny included, but this might be the first real butt whooping of the year for us.

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Really it doesn't appear he pitched bad enough to give up seven earned;

You should seriously get a job in politics. You the master of spin.

by save_the_trop on May 21, 2008 6:29 PM EDT   0 recs

His line screams seven earned runs to you?

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on May 21, 2008 6:30 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Also, I said he pitched poorly, but not seven earned runs bad...

You’re playing semantics here to try and discredit my statement.

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on May 21, 2008 6:31 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Why is that?

You think he pitched bad enough to give up 7 ER?

I don’t think you realize how bad a 7 ER start really is, and to say his line shows that is outrageous to me. 9 hits in 6 innings with a walk and 2 homeruns doesn’t say 7 ER.

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on May 21, 2008 6:34 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I don’t think he was as bad as his line suggested. We know for a fact one of the HR wouldn’t have gone out except for wind, it was just one of those days. Remember, Gomes misplayed a ball horribly in LF too that lead to a run that shouldn’t have scored. So while it was a subpar outing for Sonny’s standards, it was a bit inflated by things out of his control. And that’s the way it goes sometimes.

Even Shields, and for that matter, even guys like Peavy have clunkers. Our pitching has been outstanding lately and we can’t expect it to keep up the way it has.

The A’s are a good baseball team. I’m not ashamed, we took 2 out of 3 in Oakland. Any other year we would’ve been lucky to win one game.

by Joshua Downie on May 21, 2008 6:56 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't think Gomes misplayed the ball that bad...

It wasn’t a great play, but to blame the poor outing on Gomes is a mistake…

As far as any of those balls not being out if it weren’t for the wind, they were also hit out of that stadium which supresses offense.

For RJ, Sonny’s FIPS was 9+ this game, so I guess his line does suggest a 7 run outting…

by rglass44 on May 21, 2008 7:01 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

For RJ, Sonny’s FIPS was 9+ this game, so I guess his line does suggest a 7 run outting…

FIPs is always higher than ERA, but I’ve been corrected.

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on May 21, 2008 7:02 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Gomes should’ve caught the ball from what Dave and Andy were saying. And anyway, I wasn’t blaming his outing on Gomes. It was just one factor in why his line was a bit unrealistic. You pretty much missed the point of my post entirely.

by Joshua Downie on May 21, 2008 7:10 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

it wasn't an easy catch

Carl may make the catch, but it would be a good catch

"I'd hate to leave right when the getting is good." -CC

by Matt Bishoff on May 21, 2008 7:31 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

i watched the game...

thought both homers were no doubters, and there were a few other deep fly balls. don’t remember a double that gomes should have caught. he was getting hit sharply all game, as even the singles were line drives in front of people…

by rglass44 on May 21, 2008 7:31 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Gomes misplayed the ball

By playing too close to the wall, and thus misplaying the carom and watching it bounce over his head on the way back. Few if any LF’ers would have actually caught the ball.

by GomesSweetGomes on May 21, 2008 8:36 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Did you watch the game?

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on May 21, 2008 6:33 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I know that at least one of those doubles was a Gomes mess up.

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on May 21, 2008 6:35 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Right. Because saying "He didn't pitch bad enough to give up seven earned runs." Is going out of my way to lay praise.

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on May 21, 2008 6:50 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

It's not bias

why must some people think that every argument that is for one player getting reps and for benching another is always borne out of some sort of personal grudge?

You’re being ridiculous.

by JI on May 21, 2008 6:59 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I still don't get what I said...

That heaped praise on Sonny. To equate this to a car accident:
“Hey, you nearly totaled the car, but at least you didn’t get hurt right!?”

I guess I’m bias towards wrecked cars over new cars too.

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on May 21, 2008 7:06 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

We're not that quality.

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on May 21, 2008 7:15 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I use the same #'s for both...

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on May 21, 2008 7:17 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

RJ words depend on his numbers

He makes observations based on facts not on bias.

"I'd hate to leave right when the getting is good." -CC

by Matt Bishoff on May 21, 2008 7:33 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Filler > facts, obviously.

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on May 21, 2008 7:41 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

you are entitled to your opinion

but i strongly disagree

"I'd hate to leave right when the getting is good." -CC

by Matt Bishoff on May 21, 2008 7:43 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Filler > facts, obviously.

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on May 21, 2008 7:57 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

First, take into account that the first 2 innings he gave up 0 hits and 0 walks....

that means he gave up 9 hits and a walk in 4 innings. Now, take into account that 2 of those hits were homers and many were double, and 7 er sounds reasonable.

by save_the_trop on May 21, 2008 6:42 PM EDT   0 recs

It's semantics. I don't think any of our pitchers (minus Glover) has put out a 7 ER performance this year.

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on May 21, 2008 6:50 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Shields v.Boston as well apparently.

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on May 21, 2008 7:04 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I haven't quoted on sabermetric stat in this entire post.

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on May 21, 2008 6:55 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

one*

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on May 21, 2008 6:56 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Sabermetrics are an attempt to take away some of the gut-feeling aspect of analyzing performances and leave it more to objective formulas.

It’s nothing sinister.

by Joshua Downie on May 21, 2008 6:59 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Terrible outting...

2 homers and 4 doubles is awful…

His OPS against today was 1.036. He was just getting drilled all over the field.

by rglass44 on May 21, 2008 7:06 PM EDT   0 recs

It was a bad outing, the worst we've seen in a few weeks.

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on May 21, 2008 7:08 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

as long as we don't make a habit of it

a quality start didnt get the win today the way the bats looked. granted they were in a hole, but we were still in it for a while…

by rglass44 on May 21, 2008 7:09 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Being in it has heped the last two nights.

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on May 21, 2008 7:12 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Have Perspective

This is just a blog written by fans. They have no control over the team. Smarter people are in control of the team, so don’t worry if they have stupid opinion.

by hellickson on May 21, 2008 7:20 PM EDT   0 recs

I'm glad you've reached this amazing conclusion on your own.

The sky is also blue, just to save you a few minutes.

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on May 21, 2008 7:24 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Sonny had a great day

6 K to 1 BB. I would take that ratio every outing no matter the results.

by hellickson on May 21, 2008 7:32 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Its silly to reduce pitching performances and throw out data such as hits.

Why do you throw out data when evaluating a single performance? I would think more data gives you a better picture.

by hellickson on May 21, 2008 7:37 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

so basing his opinion on facts is stupid?

"I'd hate to leave right when the getting is good." -CC

by Matt Bishoff on May 21, 2008 7:36 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

LMAO!!!

It’s so obvious where the bias is. Ive seen it all year, but it continues today after Sonnanstine gets his head smached in. How about those “sustainable stats”. Sonnanstine gets hit hard, a lot. Dont know what stat tells you that. Other than maybe ERA and hits allowed. Meh, thsoe arent fun enough stats to talk about

btw, I draw no comparisons between Sonny and Shields. You explain off Sonnys problems by showing Shields problems in Boston? I havent seen to omany guys getting the sweet spot on Shields’ pitches, yet everyone seems to get a good lick on Sonny. I really dont see how you can compare a good pitcher who has a rare bad outing to a an average pitcher who routinely has bad outings

by blazinrayz on May 21, 2008 7:25 PM EDT   0 recs

Because we were discussing seven run outings.

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on May 21, 2008 7:27 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I don’t think you realize how bad a 7 ER start really is

I knwo giving up 1 ER is pretty bad, atleast when Jackson’s pitching. He give sup 1 ER and we nearly run him out of town!

by blazinrayz on May 21, 2008 7:27 PM EDT   0 recs

You also wanted Griffey Jr. over Bonds, it all makes sense.

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on May 21, 2008 7:28 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Examples of biased wording...

Jackson 5.1 ip 1 er – “less than impressive”
Sonny 6 ip 7 er- “doesn’t appear he pitched bad enough to give up 7 er”
No bias in those comments

by save_the_trop on May 21, 2008 7:32 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

"Hey, at least you didn't total the car!"

Versus “That car is nice, but I don’t like the paint job.”

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on May 21, 2008 7:34 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

you are nitpicking what you want for your argument

"I'd hate to leave right when the getting is good." -CC

by Matt Bishoff on May 21, 2008 7:38 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

you are taking 2 comments in completely different context

and comparing them

"I'd hate to leave right when the getting is good." -CC

by Matt Bishoff on May 21, 2008 7:42 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Read the game thread of that one run performance.

I was the biggest Jackson fan in that thing. My ego isn’t that big, I know damn well how stupid I am.

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on May 21, 2008 7:43 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I use the same #'s for both...

You apply the numbers that suggest positive future results to Sonny, and you spin every semi-not good thing about Jackson into a reason he shouldnt be here.

You do a pretty good job of spinning the truth so that it doesnt make things youve said in the past make you look bad. Instead of just reporting things how they happen, even if it means you sounded like a moron 1 week ago. Id say thats the way to go if you want to have some integrity

I said I would take Griffey over Bonds, but how does that suggest I wnated Griffey? What does this have to do with the discussion? How old are you?

by blazinrayz on May 21, 2008 7:33 PM EDT   0 recs

no no no

He has said since last year that edwin needs to limit his walking…he doesn’t change his argument every start to just ridicule Jackson….this is coming from someone who is extremely pro-Jackson

"I'd hate to leave right when the getting is good." -CC

by Matt Bishoff on May 21, 2008 7:41 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

And I’ve simply warned his hit rates will likely take a hit back to normality and that walking four per nine while allowing similar hit rates will make this improvement look very fluky.

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on May 21, 2008 7:43 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

thats not true

He has said since last year that edwin needs to limit his walking…he doesn’t change his argument every start to just ridicule Jackson….this is coming from someone who is extremely pro-Jackson

"I'd hate to leave right when the getting is good." -CC

by Matt Bishoff on May 21, 2008 7:55 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

btw

a) Griffey can still play the OF

b) Griffey is 39, Bonds is 44

c) Griffey can still run the bases

d) Maybe points a-c are reasons that Griffey still has a job, where the juice monkey does not

by blazinrayz on May 21, 2008 7:35 PM EDT   0 recs

btw

a. not really

b. so

c. you have to get on base to run them

d. stupid people are the reason for that

by rglass44 on May 21, 2008 7:36 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

drrrr... stats

I know you will counter about how your scouting eye tells you griffey is better but, let’s try an impartial look at each player since 2006…

griff- 297 games: .264/.350/.474/.824/ 61 HRs/ 6 sb
bonds- 256 games: .273/.468/.554/1.023/ 54 HRs/ 8 sbs

Bonds is killing him in rate stats, and isn’t far behind in HRs even though he’s played in 40 less games (griff has been in 44 in 2008), and has more SB. So, which guy can run the bases better?

Not to mention the fact that Bonds comes at a much cheaper price, only money and probably less of it than Griff makes.

by rglass44 on May 21, 2008 7:58 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Read this.

It’s by a man hundreds of times smarter than both of us:
http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/sabermetric_moves_of_the_2008_pre_season/#158

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on May 21, 2008 7:38 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I hate Sonnanstine!

There I said it. Now I have credibility! This post is absurd.

a) Yes he can, and he’s the worst starting defensive OF in the league.
b) And the last time he had a season with an OPS higher than Bonds was last year was 1994. And for the record, that was the only time his OPS was higher than Bonds was last year.
c) umm, not well. He’s slow as dirt
d) Nope a huge LTD is. Bonds had one of those until he was 43. Oh and collusion.

Tools Whore

Sign Bonds!

by Tyler on May 21, 2008 8:29 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Sonny gets more love when he implodes than Jackson does when he goes 9 innings 0 ER

by blazinrayz on May 21, 2008 7:36 PM EDT   0 recs

I gave him love?

Show me the “love” I said HE DIDN’T PITCH BAD ENOUGH TO GIVE UP SEVEN EARNED RUNS. That’s not a compliment at all.

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on May 21, 2008 7:39 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

It's Clear

R.J. is a racist he doesn’t like Jackson because he’s….German

mvn.com/mlb-rays

by TommyR on May 21, 2008 7:46 PM EDT   0 recs

RJ is guilty of appeasement

He is appeasing the evil leaders of other blogs. DRaysBay should never negotiate with other blogs. I think he is a long lost relative of Neville Chamberlain.

by Jason Collette on May 21, 2008 7:51 PM EDT   0 recs

yes I'm replying to myself

Where’s the praise here? I’m still not seeing it in this piece. I didn’t watch the game but I can look at that plot graph and predict the line. Anytime Sonny is throwing that many pitches centered and that many fastballs elevated, it isn’t going to be a pretty start.

by Jason Collette on May 21, 2008 7:52 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Is that seriously what you think?

You think it is that UNCLEAR? Whatever man, Im just looking for some good honest reporting but I guess all RJs lil buddies will run to his defense, with no real explanation for anything.

Its all just become very ammusing to me the past several months (not just rj, the entire Sonny v Jackson thing). Sonny has a career 5.45 ERA and has given up a lot of hits. Yet Jackson has steadily shown signs of inching towards consistency since last year but there3 is still a clear bias for Sonny out of a lot of people, no matter what continues to happen

by blazinrayz on May 21, 2008 7:53 PM EDT   0 recs

i agree about e-jax v. sonny...

I think RJ probably agrees about E-Jax being better, but I think most still have the “we’ll see how long this lasts w/ e-jax” feeling. The problem is that you attack a stupid off-comment remark rather than looking at a post describing how in fact sonny was so bad today…

by rglass44 on May 21, 2008 8:00 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs