played 2B last night at VB. It looks to be an indication that Zobrist’s job is most threatened by Aybar. Aybar can handle 2B and 3B but he might be short in range and arm strength for SS. Zobrist OTOH is not a league average SS by any means but he looks like a decent guy for occasional use there. Tough call to take Aybar unless you believe in Bartlett’s durability to play every day. (I don’t)

Re: Niemann, his recent pitch counts are not really relevent to his final landing spot. But it would make some sense to bring him up as a reliever (spot starter) when the time comes.

If you mean as a RP I’m all for it!

Zobrist will get little PT in conjunction with Aybar’s presence except as a late defensive replacement. Seems you’d be holding 2 guys that will play little and potentially overtaxing key pen guys as a result.

While Glover is not long for this world (won’t Salas hopefully move him soon enough), I’d keep Aybar’s superior bat and send Zobrist down but a phone call away. Bartlett has missed what 3 games? If Aybar can’t handle the spot – and I readily admit there’s no evidence he can, since he’s never played there – then you have to keep Zob. Seems the real surplus is with Gross, Hinske and Floyd. Trading one of the latter 2 makes sense, but one can’t just snap their finger and make it happen. Hard to ditch Hinske when he’s been so valuable – and is much cheaper than Cliff.

D. Ward just went down for the Cubs – they could be looking for a lefty bench bat if their callup doesn’t get it done, and Floyd loves ChiTown. Plus the Cubs seem to toss money like water and Lou loves the vets. Maybe a package for Murton, so discussed in the preseason? Probably a stretch, since they see Ward as a guy to give Lee a rest, and Floyd can’t do that. Price is probably too high.

With a completely healthy roster, we have less of a use for Gross than Zobrist. As long as Hinske is mashing and Floyd is healthy, Gross’ bat isn’t really needed. Which means his only value to this team is as a guy with arm strength to put in RF in late innings, and as an emergency CF option.

Zobrist can play that backup CF role, and he is the only player who can backup Bartlett at SS.

I like the idea of gettting rid of Glover for Aybar the most.

Cliff Floyd will not get traded this year, unless we completely quit competing by the trade deadline. He gives this team invaluable experience and the most consistent bat of all the LH bats on our team, aside from CC and Pena. I dont see there being any interest in Murton, especially not for Price.

I think he meant the price for Murton is too high, not trade Price for him.

Aybar’s return is interesting because it reveals how flawed Hinske, Floyd, and Gross are against lefties.

We are considering part-time players, bench players, not regulars. If projections for someone indicate he is a star, we ordinarily do not want them as reserves but as starters. The good manager (and GM) focuses on what players can do well and uses them to maximize those assets. The bad ones harp on what players cannot do and either bury them or get rid of them.

Of course if the Rays could acquire Magglio Ordonez or Vlad it would improve the offense. But such a deal is unlikely. So it is worthwhile to have multiple options for various situations available. Gross provides fine defense and sees a lot of pitches. He also has some pop. Hinske too has some doubles power. Gomes hits lefties well. Aybar is a young switch hitter with on base skills, doubles power and an ability to play 2nd and 3rd adequately.

Floyd has generally not been bad against lefties, and anyway, he is not going to play the field. In fact, his greatest negative, tendency to injury, makes having an extra player even more important.

By keeping all 5 reserves-Zobrist, Hinske, Gross, Gomes and Aybar-it allows Maddon to exploit matchups and to use a pinch hitter early while preserving another for later. I think the benefit of having the extra pitcher is far outweighed by the benefit of a deeper bench.

bobr, I like this idea of the extra position player and the 1st team that comes to mind that uses this as well is the Angels. We all know that our skipper is all too familiar with the Angels going this route. I have to say though, that I have never heard Joe mention if he likes the idea or not for our team. I keep thinking that someone might get a nagging minor injury which would delay a big decision like this but if not the idea of Glover going would not bother me in the least with Balfour, Dohman and others at Durham. My gut feeling though is that Zobrist will be sent down and Aybar or Longoria will fill in if needed at SS.(as you have stated before Zobrist could be up from Durham in 1-2 days if needed so you don’t expose yourself at SS for very long).

You spek as if we didnt get a good look at him the time he was playing.

He was swinging the bat really well. Great bat control. He also looked to be a much better fielder than Iw as expecting at 3rd, and supposedly 2B is his natural position

Their use is a relatively recent development and tied to the increasing specialization of relief roles which I think is an inefficient us of resources and handcuffs the manager trying to make substitutions.

I don’t think there is any problem giving everyone on a 4 man (+ reserve catcher) bench enough playing time. It has always been done in the past. Especially with players like Floyd having aches and pains and needing rest and others like Gomes or Gross being ineffective against same handed pitchers, there are plenty of opportunities to use the bench.

Of course it means stretching the relievers more, and I like that idea. You can keep one loogy, say Miller, but with Howell and Hammel, the manager need not switch one when there appears to be a platoon advantage. The only issue I see is the question how soon pitchers can come back after pitching 2-3 innings. That seems to me more a matter of conditioning and practice than some physical impediment.

Its a good thing we will have Ben Zobrist to play SS (as well as any of the OF positions if we need him), and we will have Hinske, Gomes, Upton, Crawford and Zobrist to man the OF positions.

Why would we need Aybar to do that?

Aybar lacks the ability to be our closer either, does that mean he is even more of a question mark?

this was a debate on “what to do when Aybar returns”, this wasnt a debate as to whether Aybar willl refrain from beating his wife or consuming large amounts of alcohol in the future

We are all working under the assumption that Aybar is in a minor league rehab stint right now, and close to returning. No one is working under the assumption that between now and 1 week from now Aybar will be arrested again, so those things are erroneous

Im not sure where his alcohol problems or domestic abuse problems are of any concern here