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Around SBN: 2012 Africa Cup Of Nations Final

Jake's Take: Movin' On

**Warning: The statements in this post are those of Jacob Larsen and do not represent the thoughts and opinions of staff of DRays Bay. Viewer Discretion is advised. -Jake**

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Josh Hamilton is in town, a former prodgical son who has found glory in the 2 years since we made a now-apparent 40-Man roster snafu and left him unprotected and eligible to be picked in the Rule 5 draft. "The Hammer," is a legitimate contender for baseball's near-impossible Triple Crown feat and isn't succombing to the demons the once almost ruined his career.

"What if we would've kept him? How many games would we be over .500 with his bat added to an already decent team?"

Questions like that, regretfully, make me angry. Yeah, it puts a bad taste in my mouth and makes me wonder if some fans can never see the brighter side of things or just are so screwed up by past humongous failures by the former ownership that they just find ways to not believe in the current product. That's another story for another day, so I'll just explain why Josh Hamilton may not exactly be what this team needs or wouldn't have turned out to be what he is today.

Putting his dominating stats aside, Josh Hamilton needed to be left off the 40-Man roster and become Rule 5-eligible. It's kinda like nature, where young animals are left to fend for themselves without a safety net. Andrew did the right thing for Josh, he got Hamilton back on track, getting him cleaned up and back into playing baseball again. Friedman basically could only get him from Point A-to-Point B, Josh had to put the rest of the work in to become successful.

However, I don't believe we gave up on Hamilton as much as people have been led to believe. We could've not spent all the money that we did, rehabbing him in various programs and pushing for his reinstatement as much as we did. We made a gamble, which turned out to be wrong, but when it happened...we didn't have any real worries. Hamilton was barely hitting close to as much power in short-season as he had shown in the past and he had to undergo knee surgery. We had Delmon Young too, who was believed to be our franchise RFer. We had solid outfielders all around, at the time.

Who were we to know that Delmon would be traded?

Who were we to know that Rocco would have a rare blood disorder?

Who were we to know that Dukes was a raving lunatic?

Outside of  Dukes,  nothing was really foreshadowed and we were alright with the risk that we may lose Hamilton.

Star-divide

Hamilton needed to be shown that he was expendible. He was a kid who was probably handed things all his life, never really punished for his actions and that's where his descent into drugs got started. In an article long ago, his parents said that they had no problems with Hamilton getting 6 tattoos right before he was to go to his 1st big league Spring Training. To them, it was believed his tattoos were just him being a kid enjoying himself. Nothing else, just good ol' wholesome fun.

Our lack of protection from the Rule 5 draft lit a fire under Hamilton. His thought process probably straight from sadness to revenge, he was going to work his ass off to prove to everyone that it was a mistake for letting him go....especially now that he's cleaned up. If anything, he should be thanking Friedman and everyone else for getting him to where he is.

If we would've protected him, who is to say that he wouldn't have relapsed? Who is to say that this "fire" would've been lit?

Change of scenary is something that some people need, we've seen that numerous times with this current roster. However, noone really can compare to Hamilton because noone on this team would be driving past his former drug dealer on a consistent basis like Hamilton would have(had he have stayed).

As the old saying goes, "You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't."

Comment 28 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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you're asking the wrong question,

the question you should ask is:

how could the rays not know that they would be dropping damon hollins from the 40 man 2 days after the rule 5 draft?

how could the rays not see that protecting a 10 million dollar investment, even if a long shot investment, is something that they need to consider?

etc…

by davidsmarch on May 26, 2008 2:27 PM EDT reply actions  

The better question is: what happened that we don't know about

Hamilton seems like he puts all the blame on others. “It wasn’t my choice to leave.” No, but it was your choice to use drugs that get you kicked out of the league.

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on May 26, 2008 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

That money spent is a sunk cost. Just like all the stuff we paid for with Dukes.

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on May 26, 2008 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

and no, they wouldn't have been damned if they did,

had he failed, we would know that we did everything we could have done. but instead, we give up on someone we spent years and years trying to get back into baseball AS SOON as he actually DOES GET BACK into baseball.

excuse it all you want, but the action (or inaction) is inexcusable, and is a blunder and a stain on the front office.

by davidsmarch on May 26, 2008 2:29 PM EDT reply actions  

Jeff Pearlman covered Hammy since HS:
TR: Do you think it would be a bad thing, bringing back old scenery and maybe old friends, if Josh ever came back to play for the Rays?

JP: Hmmm … good question. I definitely think it’s good that the Rays left him unprotected in the Rule 5. Anyone who kills the franchise for that doesn’t get it. His history with the Rays was long, deep and troublesome. He needed a fresh start, and the team did, too.

http://mvn.com/mlb-rays/2008/05/12/interview-with-jeff-pearlman/

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on May 26, 2008 2:35 PM EDT reply actions  

Hamilton's probably the best player in the AL West though.

But this argument is as stale as Edwin/Sonny.

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on May 26, 2008 2:37 PM EDT reply actions  

On what is otherwise a horrible team

I’m sure they wish they had Edison Volquez back. (When your best pitcher is Sidney Ponson…)

Do not think that what is hard for you to master is humanly impossible; but if a thing is humanly possible, consider it to be within your reach.

by Orlando Rays on May 27, 2008 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well if the Rays messed up

They were not alone. When I heard that the Cubs (Tim Wilken) had taken Hamilton in the Rule V Draft, it occured to me that the Rays might regret that move. Then when the turned around and sold Hamilton to the Reds for cash, I thought that it was all much ado about nothing.

Last time I checked, Tim Wilken (who knew Josh as well as anyone) was a pretty sharp guy.

I hope the fans give him a big hand tonight. Then move along.

RJ is not an elitist douchebag who hates scouting

by ttnorm on May 26, 2008 2:39 PM EDT reply actions  

Nicely stated.

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on May 26, 2008 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Another question

Another question to ask is…if the Rays had kept Hamilton (and I realize he may still be in the minors had that happened) would he not have at least some trade value? The Rays got nothing for their investment.

by krewezer on May 26, 2008 3:24 PM EDT reply actions  

Recommended

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on May 26, 2008 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Very well said.

Also, while no one can dispute that Hamilton’s had an excellent first two months, there will always be a huge risk factor with him going forward. I’d bet it’s more likely that Hamilton takes at least two trips to the DL this year than he wins the MVP. I’d also say that if I had to predict where he’ll be in 2013, I’d bet money on him being out of baseball before I’d bet on him being an All-Star. I’m not wishing him any ill will, I’m just being realistic.

I also don’t remember anyone pointing out what a huge and inexcusable blunder it was at the time. Only now, after Hamilton has defied great odds to get his career on track nine years (nine years!!) after the Rays originally drafted him is anyone complaining.

Kudos to Hamilton for getting his life and career back in order, but I can’t fault the Rays for the decision that was made given the circumstances at the time.

by homeboogie on May 26, 2008 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Wow, someone buy Jake a spell-checker....

I do agree somewhat with him though. It seems hard to believe that Hamilton would not have relapsed being around the same people in the area. At the same time, I do believe that the Rays have admitted that they screwed up by not putting him on the 40 man roster. Also, I’m always happy to see R.J. insert the Ejax/Sonny comparison wherever possible. Just to stoke the fire, whom do you believe the Rays could get more for if the traded one of them away and why?

by Ryan Gilliss on May 26, 2008 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree

Personal history notwithstanding, he was injured during the year. There was no reason putting him on the 40-man yet.

I’ve said this earlier. If anybody made a mistake, it was the Cubs. They promptly sold him to Cincinnati without a second thought. I’m sure they wish they had him in center instead of Jim Edmonds and Reed Johnson.

Not so much a problem for Cincinnati: in trading him to Texas, they got Edison Volquez. Not a bad exchange.

Do not think that what is hard for you to master is humanly impossible; but if a thing is humanly possible, consider it to be within your reach.

by Orlando Rays on May 27, 2008 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

It was a mistake, no question about it

Clearly it was a mistake. We let a possible AL MVP go for nothing. That is a mistake. Now it is impossible to say what would have happened if we kept him. Would Josh be as good as he is now? Impossible to tell. Where would Upton be playing? What would have happened to Delmon? There are so many things that would have happened differently if we kept Hamilton that it is just a waste of time to speculate. But clearly we let a talent get away for nothing.

by matthan on May 26, 2008 9:50 PM EDT reply actions  

Hindsight is 20/20

But would you say that about a kid coming off a drug problem that suffers a season-ending knee injury not a month into his comeback in Short-A?

Do not think that what is hard for you to master is humanly impossible; but if a thing is humanly possible, consider it to be within your reach.

by Orlando Rays on May 27, 2008 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

"makes me wonder if some fans can never see the brighter side of things"

Why are their so many Friedman apologists with their head’s stuck in the sand, more worried about defending our mostly flawless GM than giving the appropriate amount of criticism that is most definitely due to him?

FACT: The current and former DRO were working for years to a) get this guy clean, and b) get him off suspensions from MLB

FACT: by Fall 2006 he had not failed a drug test in a long time.

FACT: Hamilton was NOT suspended by MLB at the time he left us.

FACT: Hamilton was in our minor league system playing baseball again

FACT: Damon Hollins was released from the 40 man roster 1 day after Hamilton was let go. If we knew Hollins had no place with this team, why not simply RELEASE HOLLINS 1 DAY EARLIER and protect Hamilton? I have yet to hear one good reason for this FACT that is NEVER brought up when the apologists are telling you how he was suspended for years, on drugs for years, still hadnt played above A ball yada yada yada—none of which answer the question why he was let go, when he was let go

If we release Hamilton 2 years earlier, I have no problem with it. I have a problem with sticking by his side and seeing him progress in life and with baseball for the first time in years, then letting him go for no compensation and really for no purpose, only to continue down the path WE SAW HE WAS ON and become what everyone knew he was capable of.

we knew of his upside and we let him go for nothing, for no reason.

by blazinrayz on May 27, 2008 12:52 AM EDT reply actions  

Again, he was injured

FACT: He blew out his knee less than a month after starting playing in Hudson Valley, ending his season.

Do not think that what is hard for you to master is humanly impossible; but if a thing is humanly possible, consider it to be within your reach.

by Orlando Rays on May 27, 2008 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Damon Hollins was released from the 40 man roster 1 day after Hamilton was let go.

using “hindsight is 20/20” is a BS excuse when you consider ^^^that fact

we mad ethe choice to stick by his side for 3-4 years while he was on drugs, so when we let him go while he is off drugs you are no longer aloud to say “yea, but he was on drugs hindsight is 20/20 you cant blame us for letting him leave”

We didnt let him leave because of his drug problem. That is such a complete BS excuse and I hate hearing people make excuses for Friedman in this situation

I thinnk he is one of the best “GMs” in baseball, but what kind of fan doesnt hold a GM accoutable? Some of you guys sound like you are trying to bail your kid out of trouble. Dont worry, its OK to acknowledge the rare mistake. That doesn tmean we are folding back into the Lamar/Naimoli era all of a sudden

by blazinrayz on May 27, 2008 12:57 AM EDT reply actions  

Last time I checked, Tim Wilken (who knew Josh as well as anyone) was a pretty sharp guy.

The whole “well the Cubs traded him also” excuse is the worst one Ive heard

Guess what? The cubs didnt draft Hamilton in 1999. Hamilton wasnt a part of the Chicago organization from 1999-2006. Do you honestly hold them to the same standards you do as the Rays FO, who watched the kid grow up here? How could you possibly expect the Cubs to have as good an understanding of what type of player Hamilton could be, and also have any idea what was going on thhe past 4 years while he was on drugs. The Rays barely knew what was going on with him AND HE WAS PART OF OUR ORGANIZATION

PLUS, the Cubs TRADED him. They atleast got SOMETHING for him. And they wouldve been forced to hold thsi guy on their 25 man roster, we had to keep him on our 40 man roster

Is this a valid argument in anyway? Nope, but neitehr are nay of the otehr arguments against Hamilton

Its just good to see rj not trashing the guy as a human being over the internet anymore, out of rage for making the FO look bad. That was pretty pathetic

by blazinrayz on May 27, 2008 1:03 AM EDT reply actions  

Agreed

Why worry about the one that got away? Let’s concentrate on the talent that they have been able to acquire and keep.

by rglass44 on May 27, 2008 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not 100% sure about that

Isn’t there a clause in the CBA that only allows a 15% decrease in salary from year-to-year with the same team? If so, I think it would have cost the Cubs $6.5 million to keep Prior this year.

However, I may be wrong: I’m no CBA expert.

by Todd S. on May 27, 2008 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I totally agree, why worry about the one that got away? We have who we have and there is no point in wondering what could have been with Hamilton. I think some are down-playing just how bad of shape he was actually in. Hamilton was in a very dark place for a very long time. It was hard to continue to put any confidence or additional money into someone so undependable at the time.

by dbulls21 on May 28, 2008 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

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