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Around SBN: PHOTOS: Mike Moser's Dunk Face Is Spectacular

This game was great... nuff said

First of all Percival blew this game... nuff said.  "Closing time" was not set till Howell got in the game.  I know Navarro hit the the grand slam, and I let out a sigh of relief when I saw that.  I think the real winner of this game is Dan Wheeler.  When Rios tripled in the 10th it looked all over.  However, "he stuck to his guns" (lame quote but its true).  Percival showed he ain't invincible tonite, but the rest of the Rays carried the team over.  Maddon is a damn genius, even though I was questioning a lot of what he did.  Great game, lots of drama.  GO RAYS!  18-16 in the beginning of MAY.  AWESOME!

This post was written by a member of the DRaysBay community and does not necessarily express the views or opinions of DRaysBay staff.

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I wonder how the Jacskon haters will spin this start?

I think it’s about time that they admit that Jackson is improving.

by save_the_trop on May 9, 2008 5:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was impressed

Was throwing harder (hit 99 in the 8th) and with better command late in the game. He made Rolen look bad in his last AB.

by ttnorm on May 9, 2008 6:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

One start =/= improving

God damn, I swear some of you are so fickle. Let him do this for a run of games before you say he’s improving, it’s ONE START. Did you say he sucked after he blew up versus the Sox? Did we? No.

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on May 9, 2008 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

JACKSON AWESOME AS WELL

I’m very happy the real Edwin Jackson showed up. Your right he really was the real winner. Can’t deny Wheeler though, man I thought it was over when Rios was on third.

by Cooperstown Kid on May 9, 2008 1:17 AM EDT reply actions  

Improvement..

Will be if he can put together 2-3 starts in a row along these lines. His problem has been inconsistency where he’ll do what he did last night and then follow it up with the egg he laid in Boston for two games.

by Jason Collette on May 9, 2008 7:41 AM EDT reply actions  

Exactly

For as great as he looked last night, he was equally as awful against Boston. I really want to see him improve, but until he can do this every time out I’m going remain pessimistic about him. Lets see if he can do this against a team that can hit.

by SuperB on May 9, 2008 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well

I don’t honestly expect him to go 8 IP with 0 ER and a Whip around 1.00 every time out, but if he could find a way to keep the good starts and ditch the terrible ones I could live with that. Good last line.

Hey Yankees... you can take your apology and your trophy and shove 'em straight up your ass!

by Sandy Kazmir on May 9, 2008 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Shields

Also got lit up by Boston last week. Does he not have it? They have a great lineup that was turning it around last week. I’ll be glad if 2/3 of the time he comes at out a gives the team a quality start. That is the definition of a good back enn of the rotation guy. Maybe he’ll even have a few years where he goes out there every night and does it. The difference between Ed of last year and EdWin of this year is night and day though. BTW, he’s been a lot more impressive than Garza.

by rglass44 on May 9, 2008 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Question?

Is it possible that Jackson and Daniel Cabrera are similar pitchers? Cabrera is 3 years older and has a similar history of maddeningly erratic performances despite his extraordinary stuff, and also due to terrible control. But over the last 4 games, except for one 7 walk performance (in which he still only allowed 2 runs over 6.1 IP), he has cut down on walks drastically (and is striking out fewer this year as well) and been very effective. Does that offer us hope that Jackson may manage the same apparent turnaround.

I do not offer that analogy as evidence of anything. It isn’t, of course. Only as a glimmer of hope that such turnarounds (if indeed Cabrera’s is real, which is still very uncertain) are possible for these kinds of pitchers.

I do think there is some anecdotal evidence that Jackson is more in control on the mound. And additionally, his overall BB rate is down from 4.9+ last year to 4.26 so far this year, so even if his K rate is lower than one would like and the K/BB rate is not impressive, it suggests improvement in an important area, maybe the single most significant reason for his failures.

His results have been good/excellent in 4 starts and awful in 3. Two of the 3 bad ones came in the second go-around against NY & Boston, the other against Chicago. Let’s see how he does as he sees teams multiple times and faces more good (and patient) lineups. At the start of the year, on a scale of 1-10, my confidence meter for Edwin was at 2. Now it is at 4. My hope meter remains at 10.

by bobr on May 9, 2008 10:07 AM EDT reply actions  

I think Cabrera is more extreme ..

Because he is consistently wild, even in his good start. He just has a lot of movement to his pitches that he can’t always harness. Jackson’s problem is he struggles to locate his pitches as they don’t have nearly the same movement Cabrera has on his. Of course, this is my observation so there may very well be some PITCHf/x data to prove me wrong.

My demands of Jackson are simple:

1 – Get through 6 innings in every start
2 – Throw 60%+ strikes – preferably a 65/35 split based on 100 pitches
3 – At least 2x as many strikeouts as walks
4 – 1.30 baserunners per 9 innings
5 – Continue working on the changeup (review at bat vs Stairs last night)

by Jason Collette on May 9, 2008 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Cabrera/Jackson

If Jackson can do that it would be a terrific bonus for the Rays. As for Cabrera, my point is that in his last 4, really last 5, starts, he has shown good control. Here are his walks and IP:
6 IP/2BB
8 IP/0BB
6.1 IP/7BB
7.1 IP/2BB
9 IP/1BB

Four of the 5 games indicate good to terrific control. In fact, you can go back one more start when, after his first two games of typical control problems, he went 6.2 innings and gave up just 3 BBs, a bit high, but improved and the start of the streak of good outings, save one.

In the last 6 outings, he has gone at least 6 innings and never given up more than 3 runs or more hits than IP. He has allowed 2 home runs in that stretch. Would that Jackson could emulate that-as he did last year-and keep it up over the course of a season.

And I agree that Cabrera’s ball has unreal movement on it so that if he lacks command it is probably less disastrous for him than for Edwin.

by bobr on May 9, 2008 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Did you say Maddon was a genius?

What part of the game are you referring to?

by LeftRight on May 9, 2008 12:00 PM EDT reply actions  

Win = genius
Loss = moron

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on May 9, 2008 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

The courage of their convictions

I have been thinking about this question for a while. Leaving aside the hyperbole of “genius”, I think Maddon may well be an excellent manager. I use the conditional because as with players, the sample is too small to be certain. If the question is about his first two years, then I unequivocally say he was an excellent manager, but the situation is new so we have to see.

As for why I think so, I will ignore any discussion of in-game tactics, a discussion I consider both inane in most cases and focusing on the least important aspect of his job. In fact, I could discuss many different aspects of Maddon’s work to demonstrate my view, but will only focus on one.

That one is identical to my view of the entire organization. I think Maddon was hired and renewed because he matches perfectly the organization’s approach to the team, the keystone of which is to have the courage of their convictions. By that I mean they trust their judgment and do not flit from choice to choice because of frustration or panic at short term disappointments.

Some may call it stubbornness; I see it as persistence.

From the start, they allowed players whom they thought had the ability ample time to prove themselves. This led many fans to criticize, for example in the cases of McClung, Waechter, Camp, Stokes and others who failed over and over. But it also meant that they did not give up on players like Upton, Navarro, Sonnanstine, Jackson and this year Bartlett, Iwamura, Pena, Gross et al.

Instead, Maddon (and here I think Maddon and management are inseparable) tries to find ways to maximize their usefulness. So he initially worked Upton in as a super sub after his disastrous 2006. He stuck with Navarro through an awful half. We should not forget that after a good start to his career, Shields suffered through an awful 4 game slump. Another manager might have buried him hoping to catch lightening in a bottle with some other prospect, of which there were plenty. But not Maddon. And he maintains stability without sacrificing flexibility, moving Iwamura to 2B, Upton to the 3 hole in the lineup and so on.

It is in his faith in his own capacity to identify talent and figure out where it can benefit the team that Maddon has demonstrated great skill. We still do not know for sure that it will all work out, but there are good signs. I am not arguing that he is an excellent manager any more than I am saying that Longoria is a super star. But on the evidence so far, there is plenty of reason for optimism.

by bobr on May 10, 2008 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was glad he gave Navarro chances....

if you get a chance read the article in the booklet they pass out at the games about him. Dude has been through so much shit. I hope he keeps up he has been doing really good this year.

Top Josh Paul Pornos- Big Navi Stroking, 2pitchers1cup, BJ to the Balls

by SRQman on May 10, 2008 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

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