Chock full of dumb (please don't take this too seriously)
by Vin on Jun 16, 2008 4:33 PM EDT
129 comments
Really didn't think I needed to say that, but oh well.
While these past few months have been great, the newfound sense of winning they've brought have led me to an unfortunate conclusion: A team's winning percentage is directly proportionate to the amount of dumb in it's fanbase.
"What am I talking about?" you ask. Well, lets take a look...
Edwin Jackson and Andy Sonnanstine aren't pitching very well. Smart.
Edwin Jackson and/or Andy Sonnanstine need to be moved out of the rotation ASAP. Dumb.
Winning means bandwagoners. Bandwagoners are, by nature, extremely shortsighted. Kazmir (2012), Shields (2014), Garza (2013), and Price (2014) will be under contract/team control for several years to come. And while its widely accepted that these 4 will be immovable fixtures in the rotation, unfortunately the notion that Sonny and EJax are duking it out for the 5th spot is as well. The influx of casual fans has led to an overall dip in the knowledge of our farm system. Hellickson is due to jump a level any day now; as are Davis and McGee (although thats debatable), and we have a former first round pick waiting in AAA along with a Mitch Talbot who is flashing some brilliance that definitely warrants attention... You people think Sonny v. Jackson is the fight to watch? Psh. Thats just the undercard. Wait for the Hellickson v. Davis v. McGee v. Niemann v. Talbot free-for-all.
Carl Crawford swings at the first pitch entirely too often. Smart.
Saying anything negative about Carl Crawford warrants public crucifixion. Dumb.
That the casual side of our fanbase can be this damned touchy is what surprises me the most. That what's said during gamethreads can be taken so personally and without context is what disappoints me the most. CC is what he is: a speedy, athletic outfielder who has absolutely zero patience, a knack for swinging at the first pitch, and the tendency to get better during the second half of the season. Pointing out these things is far from heresy. Using statistics to point out these things is far from blasphemy. Telling a lifelong, diehard Rays fan he sucks for calling for improvement on this player's flaws is however, dumb.
Ken Griffey Jr. is a first ballot hall-of-famer. Smart.
Ken Griffey Jr. is an upgrade over what we have in RF. Dumb.
When I first read that Griffey would waive his trade clause to be a Ray I thought to myself, "Well thats pretty damned flattering." Little did I know that stupid had flexed its grotesquely muscular arm on my favorite fansites and reasoning such as "it would put asses in the seats" and "Griffey is a much better player that Gabe Gross" would fuel heated debate on whether we should add another defensively inept, left handed bat to a 25-man roster that is arguably the most crowded in the league. The numbers have already been laid out there and not only do they ALL point to Gross being the better player this year, they ALL support the opinion that our mangled-ass RF/DH situation would actually be worse off if we gave Griffey a full-time job... So, please, guys, I agree that seeing childhood legends in Rays gear would be cool... but isn't that what MLB: The Show is here for?
...There's plenty more dumb to cover (like Rocco being one of the best hitters in the organization) but I think I'll leave it at this for today. Thanks for reading.
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Top Josh Paul Pornos- Big Navi Stroking, 2pitchers1cup, BJ to the Balls
BELIEVE in 08!
by SRQman on Jun 16, 2008 4:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
OH Vin
were you the guy who had the link to the site where you could download all the prospects for the Show? I think it was you and was wondering if you have the link still?
Top Josh Paul Pornos- Big Navi Stroking, 2pitchers1cup, BJ to the Balls
BELIEVE in 08!
by SRQman on Jun 16, 2008 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks man
I will play it once I get my PS3 back, it died. Off course I have a 360 since launch but my PS3 dies which is unheard of.
Top Josh Paul Pornos- Big Navi Stroking, 2pitchers1cup, BJ to the Balls
BELIEVE in 08!
by SRQman on Jun 16, 2008 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh and that prospect add on...
is pretty damn sweet-
by Hazleton Jason on Jun 16, 2008 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
honestly sonny isnt doing that bad
edwin is the one doing bad lately and sonny has 7 wins im not disappointed in sonny only hope that edwin turns it around and soon
by RaysOfHope on Jun 16, 2008 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't say Sonny is better due to wins/losses. That's not something the pitcher should get credit for.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 16, 2008 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brilliant piece of writing...
Agree 100% with all- well done…
by Hazleton Jason on Jun 16, 2008 4:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This man is better than me.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 16, 2008 4:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Vin 08???
Top Josh Paul Pornos- Big Navi Stroking, 2pitchers1cup, BJ to the Balls
BELIEVE in 08!
by SRQman on Jun 16, 2008 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What makes you think Patrick would be open to elections?
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 16, 2008 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He would stomp me
I have a feeling Pat could talk Jessica Beil out of her undies.
Kid has the politician angle down like none other.
by Vin on Jun 16, 2008 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He does
Which is why it’s going to be brilliant when one of his rants on this site costs him office one day.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 16, 2008 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I haven't said anything THAT inflammatory
At least since one of my profane, anti-Red Sox fan rants a few years ago. But I figure that I’ll never lose New England in an election as one of DA LIBURULZ!!
by Patrick L. Kennedy on Jun 16, 2008 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you were astute in the titling of this piece, it is chock full of dumb...
just kidding, but some of it is…
you are on the right path, but askew on some points.
1. the CC debate isn’t just the, “CC is awesome” vs “CC sucks” crowd, it’s a bit more complicated then that, and dumbing it down like you do does a disservice to the people that intelligently debated the subject over the past couple weeks. no one is “crucifying” people simply for saying that CC is having an off year, that much is obvious. it’s the people that spout on nonsense (i.e. Gabe Gross is better then CC, CC is a totally avg player, CC needs to bat 8th, etc…) that draw the ire of the NON-CASUAL fan.
and
2. Baldelli is one of the best hitters in the organization. that much is known to anyone who actually was a fan long enough to watch him play a full healthy year (was it that long ago). this is the man who drew comparisons, however warranted, to ted williams. unfortunately he could never stay healthy and show people what a truly gifted batter he actually is.
by davidsmarch on Jun 16, 2008 4:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
. this is the man who drew comparisons, however warranted, to ted william
I recall DiMaggio comparisons, but not Ted Williams.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 16, 2008 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
damnit, you are right,
give me an edit button!!!
by davidsmarch on Jun 16, 2008 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't even edit your comment.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 16, 2008 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which is unfortunate
cause it needs a LOT of editing.
by Vin on Jun 16, 2008 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just foolin
I don’t mean to insult your opinions or call them wrong.
I just simply disagree with the Baldelli thing.
by Vin on Jun 16, 2008 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think it's debatable,
but i remember watching him in 2003, and man what a beautiful swing baldelli has when he’s totally healthy and has his timing down, really just smooth. i remember thinking the guy has easy 30hr potential, with over a .300 avg. we may never know, but i truly feel he’s got the swing for it.
by davidsmarch on Jun 16, 2008 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Swings can be lost.
Really. I don’t know how else to say it. Injuries and lack of playing time can obliterate every aspect of a guy’s ability to play the game.
by Vin on Jun 16, 2008 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If nothing else
At least we have enough depth that we can actually argue about this.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 16, 2008 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i know you agree with me RJ,
even if others don’t remember it.
it’s not valid at this point to say “Rocco lost his swing”, b/c honestly nobody knows. we’ll have to wait and see what these past couple years have done to him, but i’m not one of those who thinks he can just “lose” his swing…
by davidsmarch on Jun 16, 2008 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its not a definitive 'can" or "can't" issue,
I’m simply skeptical on whether he can show the form he had from, what, 3 years ago?
‘Cause that was the last time he was a serviceable ballplayer.
by Vin on Jun 16, 2008 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know if he's still top ten or not
If he shows 2006 form? No doubt. Hopefully we’ll get a chance to see, but I’m not getting too excited about him quite yet.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 16, 2008 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which makes me want to pat you on the back
and punch everyone who said the NDRO was just like the old DRO in the face.
by Vin on Jun 16, 2008 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Patience was key.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 16, 2008 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Swings aren't always lost
Look to Texas and Josh Hamilton to show you that time away from the game doesn’t always sap all the ability out of a player. Rocco certainly isn’t on Hamilton’s level, but if he could get that mitochondrial deal figured out, he could definitely start in RF or CF for us.
by jwgator on Jun 17, 2008 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, J.W.
Nice to see you over here.
by Patrick L. Kennedy on Jun 17, 2008 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As for CC
I haven’t seen anyone say Carl is a totally average player or that he should bat 8th. This season Gross IS outperforming him, say it’s because he’s part of a platoon all you want, there’s dozens of players who should be platooning that aren’t.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 16, 2008 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it is b/c he is part of a platoon
you can’t fairly compare the numbers of an everyday player vs a specialty player. the platoon player SHOULD have better numbers, if he doesn’t then why the hell is he platooning?
by davidsmarch on Jun 16, 2008 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because the manager sucks?
Gross is being used correctly and he’s doing his part. The hate for Gross is ridiculous.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 16, 2008 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don't hate Gross, i've never spouted off anything negative about Gross, ever...
but that being said, you still cannot compare the two. Gross is a platoon player, put him in every day and his numbers would probably be very poor (yes, worse then CC’s).
by davidsmarch on Jun 16, 2008 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't say you.
Generally speaking it seems like everyone wants to dump Gross.
I didn’t argue your point, I gave a reply to “Why the hell is he platooning?” Some managers are dumb.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 16, 2008 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i like Gross,
the people who want to dump him at this point are mostly idiots, don’t let them get to you. also, the “why the hell is he platooning” was redundant.
by davidsmarch on Jun 16, 2008 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You've been around long enough...
You should know I always have to answer redundant questions.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 16, 2008 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody hates Gross
People are simply pointing out the deficiencies in Gross’ game just like you do with CC and Edwin. Pointing out that Gross cannot hit lefties is no difference than saying Edwin has trouble throwing strikes and CC has horrible discipline at the plate. Gross is under .100 career in hitting lefties. That my friends is not very good. That isn’t hate, it is just a fact. He even admitted it himself.
And as David said you just cannot compare numbers between platoon players and everyday players. Saying a platoon player has a higher ratio so he is a better player is highly misleading. As David astutely pointed out platoon players should have higher ratios since they are only playing in the scenarios that they succeed in.
Regarding the OP I disagree with the whole Griffey isn’t better than what we use in RF currently (Hinske/Gomes/Gross 3 headed monster). I’ll assume the main platoon from here on out is Gomes v LHP and Gross v RHP.
If Gomes hits lefties the nearly best he can and Gross hits righties the nearly best he can that would be essentially equal to Griffey. The ceiling is much higher with Griffey, and it is much safer to go that route. Now odds are the Gross/Gomes combo is probably the exact same production as Griffey. The rest of the year I think we get maybe .240 and a dozen more home runs out of RF whether its Gomes/Gross or Griffey. If I was a betting man that is what I’d go with. I don’t see the Gomes/Gross combination doing much, and I think Griffey is washed up (as you can see I want a different option such as Giles or Bradley). But the reward is much higher with Griffey and the risk is much lower with Griffey. With Griffey at least you have the potential for a big impact bat and with the Gomes/Gross combination there really isn’t that possibility. And higher reward with lower risk is always the better option.
by matthan on Jun 16, 2008 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
. Pointing out that Gross cannot hit lefties is no difference than saying Edwin has trouble throwing strikes and CC has horrible discipline at the plate
Given how he’s being used, hitting lefties isn’t a priority for Gross. It’s a flaw, but not a fatal one. A pitcher not throwing strikes or a hitter hacking are flaws, and the former is fatal.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 16, 2008 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gross' flaw is covered up, the other two cannot be.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 16, 2008 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure I agree
My point is you can’t say Gross is a better player. Griffey is clearly the better player. That isn’t even close, and it is an absurd argument to say that Gross is better. Gross is good in his current role. I have no problem with you saying that. But when you talk about how good someone is as a player you have to look at the whole package. You just can’t pick and choose what he does well and ignore the rest when comparing the skills of two players. Gross not being able to hit lefties is a serious flaw in his game. There is just no way you can ignore that. If we was able to do what he does vs Righties then he would be a solid MLB. He would be an everyday player. But he just can’t, and that makes him a fringe MLB platoon player.
To sum up you just need to compare apples to apples. Either Gomes and Gross to Griffey or all of Griffey to all of Gross. You can’t do half of Gross to all of Griffey.
by matthan on Jun 16, 2008 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Our RF platoon has a higher OPS than Griffey Jr.
I pointed this out yesterday.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 16, 2008 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I said two posts above that I believe the platoon and Griffey would end up with very similar numbers. I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said about the platoon.
Just do not say Gross is better than Griffey. I’ve just been pointing out that is false. If you mean the platoon then say the platoon. Don’t say Gross when you mean the platoon. Thats all.
by matthan on Jun 16, 2008 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gross is better than Griffey
Because Griff would not platoon. Therefore, our defense in RF and our offense in RF would decline. While, Gross playing full time might not put up the offensive numbers Griff would, his defense and willingness to platoon make him more valuable. Griffey is arguabley the worst everyday player in all of baseball.
by rglass44 on Jun 17, 2008 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why is he hitting only .243 if he is so great rj?
by RaysOfHope on Jun 16, 2008 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why are you using batting average?
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 16, 2008 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
because that stat is one of the most important, why wouldnt i use BA?
by RaysOfHope on Jun 17, 2008 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because it's one of the least important.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 17, 2008 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i like gross i just dont think he is starting quality, great 4th outfielder though
anyways what happens to the platoon when rocco comes back?
by RaysOfHope on Jun 17, 2008 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 17, 2008 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well "if" he comes back who is going to be gone?
it will come down to trading hinske and cutting gross most likely
by RaysOfHope on Jun 17, 2008 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Rays are not
cutting Gross, certainly not to make room for Baldelli. They were pursuing him, and with good reason, even before the season started. In the role assigned him, he functions very well. Saying he is not a star or even a good regular is not a criticism; it is a recognition that his value lies elsewhere, but that value should not be underestimated.
Even should the Rays acquire a star right fielder, Gross would likely be the last player to go to make room. That would probably be the case even if the new player were a left-handed hitter and good fielder.
Just to be clear, I am in no way saying that Gross is a great player or even a particularly good one. Only that he is good in the specific role he has on this team, a role that would have to be filled even if the three outfield positions were manned by stars. It is a role that nobody else (Hinske, Gomes, Ruggiano, Baldelli, Floyd, Aybar) can fill and one that has to be filled.
by bobr on Jun 17, 2008 1:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with bobr
wouldn’t it more likely come down to cutting or trading Gomes?? I mean they said that if Baldelli can make it back this year that he would be a DH anyways and not out in the field immediately. I could still see Hinske being moved since he actually has trade value and Gomes doesn’t, and he is a little more expendable with Aybar back and playing well as a utility man.
by usfraysfan on Jun 17, 2008 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
idk about moving gomes
he has been the best teammate this season and cutting or trading him wouldnt make that much sense so i say that we cash in chips on hinske
by RaysOfHope on Jun 17, 2008 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does Hinske really have much trade value given the circumstances?
I doubt NL teams are lining up to put him in the field. So that leaves the AL. Given he’s not a prospect, only a trade to a contender makes much sense and if we’re contending, would we make a deal that could potentially help an opponent competing for a playoff spot?
Longlorious.
by RATW on Jun 26, 2008 3:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think...
The level of intelligence of the overall fan base is inversely proportional to the number of people jumping on the bandwagon.
Do not think that what is hard for you to master is humanly impossible; but if a thing is humanly possible, consider it to be within your reach.
by Orlando Rays on Jun 16, 2008 5:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Rays fans for the most part are quite smart.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 16, 2008 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely astounding
Great take. I agree that we are going to have to suffer through bandwagoners, just as longtime Bucs fans have had to go through it. However, it is a hardship that I am happy to bear as long as it means we are winning.
by usfraysfan on Jun 16, 2008 5:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of Smart Vs. Dumb...
Good job taking that ridiculous post “RAYS OUT TOO LATE” off the site. While it was fun bashing that guy, the fact that he named Rays and insinuated drug use was definitely DUMB.
Jamie DeLuca
by JDeLuca on Jun 16, 2008 5:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 16, 2008 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he meant anything malicious by that post
I honestly think he thought he was just sharing useful information, though obviously it wasn’t a good idea to post. For us, it came down to the high volume of reader complaints as well as the liability that we take on for hosting said posts. I’m not saying what he posted was false; there is no way for me to know. However if any of that does turn out to be false, I don’t want us or SBN to be the victims of a libel lawsuit. Not like they’d get anything valuable out of R.J. and I anyways.
by Patrick L. Kennedy on Jun 16, 2008 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We know they aren't getting anything valuable out of you...
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 17, 2008 1:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You have nothing valuable to offer, R.J., either in a lawsuit or to this site
by Patrick L. Kennedy on Jun 17, 2008 3:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As long as we agree.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 17, 2008 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, 1 hr and already 7 recs.
Thanks. This is the first thing I’ve written in a long time. I appreciate the good words.
You guys are the shit.
by Vin on Jun 16, 2008 5:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for taking the time to make good points that many of us wanted out there but were too lazy or didnt have the time to write
We also probably couldn’t have said it as well as you did.
By the way, you should check out raysindex.com real quick…they have a great take on Sonny and his issues lately.
by usfraysfan on Jun 16, 2008 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rec'd
Nice article. Way to keep things in perspective.
by JMB on Jun 16, 2008 8:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
David Price 5 IP 4 H 1 ER 2 BB 7 K
Baldelli finished 1-3, 2 BB
Price Totals: 28.1 IP 23 H 4 ER 5 BB 30 K 1.27 ERA in 5 starts.
by usfraysfan on Jun 16, 2008 10:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
thanks for the stats
i really hope that rocco’s rehab goes good because if he comes back that would be amazing and when is price going to get moved up to AA?
by RaysOfHope on Jun 16, 2008 11:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
They were supposed to re-evaluate him after two starts, it's only been one because of the rain out.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 16, 2008 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
which one are you talking about rocco or price?
by RaysOfHope on Jun 17, 2008 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Price.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 17, 2008 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you think he gets moved up to AA after next start?
by RaysOfHope on Jun 17, 2008 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 17, 2008 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He will get called up to AA
after his start in Sarasota.
Top Josh Paul Pornos- Big Navi Stroking, 2pitchers1cup, BJ to the Balls
BELIEVE in 08!
by SRQman on Jun 17, 2008 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i hope how many starts in AA if he dominants?
by RaysOfHope on Jun 17, 2008 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he dominates?
Maybe a month or a month and a half’s worth.
by Patrick L. Kennedy on Jun 17, 2008 3:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he dominates AA
do you think the Rays will consider moving him straight to the big leagues rather than send him to Durham? I know they won’t rush him or anything, but I’ve just seen a number of teams do this recently.
by usfraysfan on Jun 17, 2008 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It could happen
I think he will probably spend the rest of the season in Double A if not, or at the very least he will only get maybe two weeks or so in Durham. There are so many variables in play here that aren’t known now. My best inclination would be to say that he will not reach the major leagues this year. I just don’t think the organization will break from their M.O. of not rushing prospects, and I don’t think our bullpen will be bad enough to necessitate his presence come September. Of course, this all assumes that we’re in a playoff hunt, and maybe a new situation will bring an unprecedented move from the organization, but I just can’t see it happening.
Who knows though. So many factors go into this decision that are unknown right now. I would think that if the organization were to call Price up to the major leagues, Triple A experience wouldn’t necessarily be a prerequisite.
by Patrick L. Kennedy on Jun 17, 2008 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My guess is price is a Biscuit after the end of the month.
He needs to get a little deeper into games, but overall he has been down right nasty. I bet he and possibly some other A pitchers make their way to montgomery decently soon.
by usfraysfan on Jun 16, 2008 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does anyone know how many pitches Price is averaging per inning?
by E. Hayden on Jun 17, 2008 3:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't know
But yesterday he threw 90 pitches in what, five innings? That’s not too good. Not crushing, but still not good.
by Patrick L. Kennedy on Jun 17, 2008 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That isn't the worst
Plus we need to factor in that he has thrown tons of innings back at Vandy. We don’t really have to limit his innings.
by matthan on Jun 18, 2008 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why wouldn't you limit his innings?
Protect the future, invest in Price!
by rglass44 on Jun 18, 2008 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Innings =/= pitches
He would throw 10 innings on 100 pitches at Vandy, those days are irrelevant to the current scope when he’s throwing 90 in 5.
"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 18, 2008 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True
But this guy did have a heavy workload in college. His arm strength is pretty good. This isn’t a guy that we have to slowly work up to 200 innings. We should keep a watchful eye on him, but he doesn’t need to be babied. He should be able to finish the rest of the season (major league length) as a starter on normal pitch counts and he should be able to start and complete next year as a starter.
by matthan on Jun 18, 2008 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
from Rays Index
If there is one thing we will never stand for, it is somebody standing up on their tiny soap box and calling Rays fans “dumb”. Especially when it is another Rays fan and even more when that tiny soap box is in the form of a Rays blog. [Ed.note: yes, we do realize that “Vin” is not one of the regular writers at DRays Bay and yes we know it was a “fanpost”. But somebody at DRays Bay thought this garbage was good enough to make it a “featured fanpost” thus giving it front page, above-the-fold status. And besides, in DRays Bay’s own words, they are “One Blog”...Not two. Just one
by davidsmarch on Jun 18, 2008 5:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It's been addressed through email
We’re not going to criticize another blog’s content on here, we cover the Rays, not the people who cover the Rays.
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 18, 2008 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And further
We’re not going to punish the contributing readers because someone else has a problem with it.
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 18, 2008 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hey you did the right thing, no doubt,
it’s an obvious fanpost to all that come here, and posting it on the site isn’t an endorsement of every opinion in it.
that being said, it would have been nice to see some personal responsibility taken when someone did have a problem with this, instead of simply saying “we have no control, the readers wanted it, etc…”
by davidsmarch on Jun 18, 2008 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Both of those statements are true
We don’t alter the content and the readers did want it. Jake had nothing to do with the decision to bump it so he actually doesn’t have any responsibility.
I do, and I did address it through email.
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 18, 2008 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it is not obvious to all
it may be obvious to the diehards that are here everyday. but that is not “all”. not everybody pays close attention to who the regular writers are. and on the front page there is NOTHING that indicates that this is a fanpost. and besides. it was the DRB editors that bumped this to the main column which means they are accepting of it.
let me paint a picture for you.
let’s say you suddenly had an interest in something that was going on with the Rangers. so you head over to the SBN site for the Rangers. nothing tells you what the real posts are and what the fanposts are. and if you are not a regular reader you will just assume that all the posts in the main column are written by the writers of the site. why should you have to go digging around and find the list of main writers and check that against the author of every post?
Every newspaper in the country has a section just for letters from readers. If the New York Times suddenly puts a “letter to the editor” on the front page and only put the authors name and they don’t even mark it as being a “letter to the editor”, most people are going to accept that as being the work of the New York Times.
If this is going to be mixed in with all the “real” posts without something to distinguish it, I will accept this as being the work of DRays Bay.
by The Professor on Jun 18, 2008 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i would say oh no,
what a surprise, this blog doesn’t agree with every freaking thing that i think. oh no, sometimes i will disagree with the authors on a BLOG. oh no, i don’t necessarily think that what this person is writing is correct.
and you know what i would do about it? i would post my say as a response, which is the point of a blog. i wouldn’t take it somewhere else and cry about it like a little bitch, tearing the author and the site down, never actually having to voice anything i had to say to the person/people i have a problem with.
that’s the point of a blog, talkback, whatever you want to have, so people can respond when they have a difference of opinion. what you did was slimy, cowardly, and you just plain acted like an asshole.
you don't like it over here, don't read the site.by davidsmarch on Jun 18, 2008 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sooooo
do you realize how blogs work?
95-99% of the stuff that is written is a reaction to something that is written someplace else. it’s what we do.
so when some writer puts something out there about how great Griffey would be for the Reds…Is RJ just supposed to go comment on that site? or is he obligated to write a post on DRB outlining why that writer is wrong?
DRB put up a post saying that Rays fans were dumb. I outlined why he was wrong.
by The Professor on Jun 18, 2008 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but please. continue with the childish name calling. it's mature of you.
by The Professor on Jun 18, 2008 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
at least i said it where i know you'd see it,
instead of using some ridiculous excuse, and calling someone dumb behind their back.
obviously you are a member of this blog, and obviously you know how to post responses to things you disagree with, you are doing that now. so next time you disagree, how about saying it, instead of retreating to the safety of your own blog to bash someone.
by davidsmarch on Jun 19, 2008 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you don't like it you can get out
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 20, 2008 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
just surprised to see that over there,
and a bit more surprised to see the Jacob and yourself throw the people who post here under the bus. how about taking some responsibility?
by davidsmarch on Jun 18, 2008 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I bumped it, and I left it up.
I also made private contact explaining our policy.
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 18, 2008 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's good to know,
thanks for clarifying.
by davidsmarch on Jun 18, 2008 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha. Wow.
It wasn’t meant to be taken seriously. At least not that seriously. I had the day off so I decided to have a couple of beers, dust off the ol’ keyboard and jot down a few thoughts I had on some of the topics floating around the message boards.
I am kind of flattered that someone would dissect my post like that, though.
by Vin on Jun 18, 2008 10:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
lol what a jealous crybaby, lol and look what this guy had to say about "professor"
David said…
maybe it’s just possible that “the professor” (how original) is a bit jealous that draysbay gets 100’s of comments per post, and this site is lucky if they get 10? perhaps, just a little wittle bit jealous that the obviously far inferior seems to be pulling in so many more rays fans??? it’s ok, maybe if you weren’t such an asshole more people would frequent both sites…
by RaysOfHope on Jun 18, 2008 11:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I have no problem with Vin, Draysbay, or RaysIndex
Honestly I disagreed with the vast majority of Vins post. I thought he was a bit hypocritical and a bit wrong factually. But I have no problem with him posting his opinion. Content wise (regarding these few posts) I agree more with RaysIndex, although I hate their tone. There was no need to bash that harshly. The one group i agree with is Draysbay. The blog did nothing wrong and they should always put up the most popular ‘fanposts’ no matter how controversial. I also have no problem with Raysindex responding. That is the whole point of blogs. Right?
by matthan on Jun 19, 2008 11:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
correct,
i mean, hell, i didn’t agree with what Vin said either. you know what i did? i responded in the post with my disagreement, and i started some discussion. i thought that’s how these things worked…
by davidsmarch on Jun 19, 2008 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
Although I don’t really have a problem with RaysIndex posting a response on their site. They want to boost traffic right? As long as they didn’t link their own site on this blog I’m okay with what they did.
by matthan on Jun 19, 2008 12:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
When did Ray's Index turn into a Nazi dictatorship?
I would think most of the information on sites like this would be found in the comments where billions of people have a chance to voice their opinion whether it be from the point of view of a critical thinker or a wise ass. It is on the reader to form opinions based on other’s thoughts/ideas/minutiae. If you don’t like what someone says, rebut them. Say enough intelligent things and you might sway public opinion. Caveat: say enough stupid things or resort to name calling (i.e. you are eleven years old. WTF) and you will not be taken seriously.
The alternative is spoon-fed stories from one author that must be taken at face value with no dialogue. That is lazy and does not lead one down the path to truth. I, for one, will never visit Rays Index again after this childish diatribe. Good luck attracting readers because no one wants to hang out with the school bully after about 5th grade.
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 20, 2008 1:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
hypocrite
if this same post went up on a Red Sox blog or a Yankees blog you would be the first to raise hell…but because it was a “rays fan” that called his fellow Rays fans “dumb” you are going to defend this shit? yes i am biased, but hooray to the Prof and RI for standing up for true rays fans.
The Revolution has begun...
by Devil Ray Guevara on Jun 26, 2008 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really don't appreciate you attacking the readers...
And I didn’t want to address this on site, but whatever.
This fan base is a population, there are bound to be a few stupid people who happen to be Rays fans. We’ve been over this in the past, opinions are good, and great when they’re formed logically, but go on the Times website or the Tribune or any number of boards and sites and you will see some poorly constructed logic exhibited. No population is immune to this.
As for your hypocrite comment, the Rays fan base is supposed to be a family. You may not like your brother 90% of the time, but when someone tries attacking him you’re going to stick up for him.
Did some people take this as an attack on the entire fan base? I guess. Sticking up for “true Rays fans” is cute though, I like that. Because I think, no, I know Rays fans are fully capable of thinking for themselves. It happens across this site every single day and while I do argue and throw light-hearted jabs in some users directions I still respect what they post. That’s why reader posts get bumped and that’s why I thought nothing of bumping this after it got a record number of recs.
Those “true Rays fans” Cork defended, well, they apparently liked this post. Unless you’re saying the readers of this site aren’t “true Rays fans”.
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 26, 2008 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Go back and read the OP
If you are a true fan you have nothing to worry about. If you are an intelligent, critical thinker you have nothing to worry about. Vin was referring, IIRC, to the bandwagon fan. Characteristics of the bandwagon fan: 1) knows nothing about the agony of watching your team lose, because they don’t root for losers, only winners, every year, geography be damned. 2) Overly emotional about the peaks and valleys of a season. (ex. If the Rays lose 2 of 3 to a team like Houston they would instantly say, “See I told you they weren’t for real where’s my Green Red Sox hat I think they’re in first, right?” 3) Says things like, “That Ken Griffey Jr. sure has a lot of HR’s he’s gotta be better than Gabe Gross.”
Vin’s point was that if you say or do things on this abbreviated list then you are dumb. Get over it my 3rd wife was ‘tarded and she’s a pilot now. If you are neither dumb nor a bandwagon fan then what are you worried about, but you keep flappin your lips and, well, see number 2.
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.
by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 26, 2008 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
There is a difference between a true Rays fan and a true baseball fan. A lot of what Vin posted falls under the category of a true baseball fan. Those are things someone with knowledge of the league and knowledge of the game would know. Now of course on this site most of those people would also be true Rays fans. However, I personally know true Rays fans that don’t know very much about baseball as a whole. Some of them probably do not know how batting average and OBP is constructed, let alone some of the more advanced sabermetrics. Some of them would struggle to name one starter in the Reds rotation or what the “real all star team” should be. Yet those same people love the Rays just as much as you and I do. They go to numerous games and cheer just as hard.
by matthan on Jun 26, 2008 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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