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Rocco goes yard!

I was just checking the box score for Vero Beach and noticed that Baldelli hit a HR in his first ab today.  I know we've all been burned before with Rocco but it's hard not to get a bit encouraged by any positive news concerning him.  If he's nothing more than a right handed DH who occasionally plays the field he is still an upgrade from Gomes, right? 

Keep it up Rocco!  We'd love to see you at the Trop again!

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We can has beared man?

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on Jun 18, 2008 3:24 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

No, no, that takes away some of the comedy.

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on Jun 18, 2008 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

editor-in-chief

I can has edit practice mr editer?

by rglass44 on Jun 18, 2008 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like how you assume that I'm qualified to be an editor.

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on Jun 18, 2008 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Editor-in-Chimp

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 18, 2008 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rec'd.

"I've seen many, many blue skies turn gray, but the sun will eventually return, and so will I. So will I." - Carlos Pena

by R.J. Anderson on Jun 18, 2008 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

we've all been burned before

I know I expect absolutely no contribution from Rocco ever in the future. So it makes every AB, H, HR, etc. at any level gravy. Go Roc!

by rglass44 on Jun 18, 2008 3:25 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Go Rocco keep it up!

You gotta love this story.

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 18, 2008 3:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Well he only gets 20 games total to "rehab" for the rest of the year.

Sticky situation that I don’t recall seeing anyone else go through before. After that 20, I am under the assumption that it’s DL or MLB. Is that right?

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 18, 2008 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or we can release him. The front office needs to determine if we are going to resign him next year or not. If we aren’t then there is no use wasting options, DFAing, or trading players currently on the big club.

by matthan on Jun 18, 2008 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

how else are we supposed to determine if we are going to re-sign him next year,

without first seeing him in some major league action? the move will be made, if he can help the team this year, even if they are not thinking long term. but, knowing this org as we do, they always think long term.

by davidsmarch on Jun 18, 2008 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

apparently it is only 20 days

From what people on this site have told me he only has 20 says to rehab, not twenty games. so his stint would be over in a matter of a couple weeks…

by RaysTheRoof on Jun 18, 2008 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Those places are wrong.
According to the Collective Bargaining Agreement, the rehab assignment for position players is 20 days, but Friedman said he doesn’t know if 20 days will be enough time—which prompted a followup question regarding whether the Rays were hoping to find some flexibility in the rule.

Link.

by R.J. Anderson on Jun 18, 2008 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can it be longer if Rocco agrees to it?

by floridaroar on Jun 18, 2008 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Am I the asshole because I don’t want to see the multi millionare twenty something shorten his life for my entertainment, or are you the asshole for cheering him on?

by putupyourDUKES on Jun 18, 2008 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry, if I wanted to watch a dumb beast die on the field of play I would watch horse racing, or hockey.

by putupyourDUKES on Jun 18, 2008 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions   4 recs

that was awesome

I rec’d it assuming you were joking about Rocco. If not the comment was tsill good enough.

by rglass44 on Jun 18, 2008 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you're the asshole b/c you make me have to ask...

in what universe is Baldelli in any way, shape, or form shortening his life for our entertainment?

by davidsmarch on Jun 18, 2008 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're an asshole because...

You can’t find it in your heart to cheer on an amazing comeback story. All you do is root for these Natural Athletes that were blessed with superior sports-playing genetics and never had to work a day in their lives. You continue to cheer for them despite the fact that they are uniformly drug addicted and deadbeat fathers.

I think it’s time to cheer for the Lunch-Pail guys, the real dirtbags who go out there and give 110%, and take some of the field with them on their uniforms. We need more Roccos and Josh Hamiltons (god love him), and less Elijah Dukes and BJ Uptons.

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 19, 2008 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ummm yeah

It must be nice to know that you are in good company with Michael Richards, Mark Fuhrman, and Randy Marsh.

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 19, 2008 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Anyone who talks shit is an asshole...

just a fact…

In the name of Sinji Mori, we shall win!

by thebaddancingraysfan on Jun 18, 2008 6:37 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Back to the original topic

Baldelli finished 2-3 with 2 solo homers.

by Dbullsfan on Jun 18, 2008 7:01 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i hope he makes in back

Rocco is a great guy, and i hope/ he deserves another shot at making it back to the show. Having him and Hinske switch off playing RF and DH and still put Gomes in against lefties would be a much better situation at RF than obtaining Griffy for millions of dollars and half our farm…Best of luck and i hope we get to see him soon

by hFLYNN on Jun 18, 2008 11:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Oh HEY H FLYNN!

lol

Top Josh Paul Pornos- Big Navi Stroking, 2pitchers1cup, BJ to the Balls

BELIEVE in 08!

by SRQman on Jun 18, 2008 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

no way they get rid of Gomes

Hinske, Aybar, Ruggs, and Gross would all go before Gomes. Joe may not like to put him in the lineup but even he has admited how great he is for the clubhouse.

by Dbullsfan on Jun 19, 2008 2:38 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I hear the Mariners

are just 1 or 2 good clubhouse guys from competing.

Tools Whore

Sign Bonds!

by Tyler on Jun 19, 2008 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Clubhouse or not

Gomes does not have any chance at staying here ahead of Hinske or Aybar. I love Jonny Cakes, but those other 2 are real ballplayers.

Even Gabe Gross is more of a legit ML ballplayer than Gomes, but for some strange reason our team is more in need of a RH power bat than the LH bat of Gross, so Gomes may be kept over Gross. MAYBE

When Pena comes back next week we send down Ruggiano, and then Im guessing ‘if’ Rocco comes back we SHOULD drop Glover (and won’t because of Maddon’s unbridled commitment to carrying 12+ pitchers) but will end up DFA’ing either Gomes or Gross.

DFA’ing Gross makes sense because on a team witha healthy Pena and Rocco, the only time Gross would be used is as a lat einning replacement, but with Rocco on the roster we would have that need met as well as having an emergency/backup CF (which Gross also has been serving as)

by blazinrayz on Jun 19, 2008 3:28 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Roccos not playing RF

Right now they have him only at DH, and I am inclined to think that it will stay that way if he is back on the big team.

by davelrogers on Jun 19, 2008 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with DH. Everyone seems to think it is a foregone conclusion that Obi Wan will be coming back

A month ago it looked like he would never play again. I think an overlooked aspect in this discussion is what happens to Floyd if we bring in another DH-only type guy. Cliff has taken his diminished role really well, and doesn’t seem like an egotistical jerk-store type guy. That said when it’s September and we can feel the cool breeze of an October Series coming up I would think every guy would want to be on the field.

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 19, 2008 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

hey sandy...

the jerk-store called….

by rglass44 on Jun 19, 2008 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well I had sex with your wife!

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 19, 2008 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

damn he looks like 20 days will be just fine for rocco

Yea I’m sure 20 days should be enough time for his body to self destruct ; )

As much as I wanted to, it was hard for me to leave that softball hanging

by blazinrayz on Jun 19, 2008 4:04 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Isn't it more of a fungo when you lob one to yourself.

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 19, 2008 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Look, I love Baldelli as much as anyone else, and want him to succeed, but-

There is no way they are going to DFA anyone on this roster to make room for Rocco.
The Rays brass is having a hard enough time managing this group of guys to make 25. We have about 27-28 guys who right now are worthy of a roster spot… I just don’t see anyone getting taken off to make room for Rocco, especially after his option was declined for next season…

If the Rays want him to get better, they should put him in the Independant minor leagues (not sure if he is allowed to do that, but it’s an idea) to let him continue playing… And if we can work out a cheap 2 year deal for Rocco, then give him a shot.

I just don’t see moving healthy “good” contributers for someone who might be able to play…

by Hazleton Jason on Jun 19, 2008 9:45 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

what's this "might"?

if he makes it through his rehab assignment healthy and performing, then room will be made for him. he’s better then then many of these people you are saying deserve a spot on the roster. next year’s option is of no importance. if he can help this year, they will make room for him.

by davidsmarch on Jun 19, 2008 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

so you mean to tell me they will DFA-

a perfectly healthy player for Baldelli, who “might” be able to play the rest of the season, and “might” not.

I am rooting for him, and would love to see him in RF some this summer… just curious to see who you are so eager to get rid of? Gomes is the only logical choice… And even then….

by Hazleton Jason on Jun 19, 2008 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i'm not eager to get rid of anyone,

and no, i am not even remotely saying they will DFA a player who might be able to play. but, if they are convinced that Rocco is healthy, can stay healthy, and can contribute, then yes they will most definitely DFA someone, b/c if all that happens, then he will most certainly be better then any of the guys that are on the chopping block. my guess would be Gross or Gomes, even if they both have their uses. I really love Gomes, but i don’t see his usefulness the way he is being used. If Rocco comes in and is ONLY half a DH platoon, then we have Floyd/Rocco at DH, and Hinske/Gross in RF, which is certainly fine by me. Unfortunately that leaves Gomes out. On the other hand, if Rocco can play the field, and we have a RF platoon of Rocco/Gross, then the DH will be Floyd/Gomes and Hinske is the odd man out. We’ll just have to wait and see.

by davidsmarch on Jun 19, 2008 10:57 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

Hey, Rocco healthy and swinging is a dangerous player… I just need to see more of nights like last night to convince me we need to dump someone to get him here. Will 20 days be enough?

by Hazleton Jason on Jun 19, 2008 11:04 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

who knows man,

i certainly don’t think 20 days will be enough. but you have to realize, even if he’s been out of baseball for over a year, i’m sure he’s still been doing some baseball related activities on his own. will he be the same? i don’t know. but hitting home runs is hard, and hitting two in one game is very hard. that’s a great great sign that he’s getting his timing and his swing back. of course it’s against A-ball pitching, but we know he can hit ML pitching, he just needs to work back into it.

by davidsmarch on Jun 19, 2008 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why the hell would we get rid of Hinske?

Why would we get rid of Hinske? Suggesting that is a retarded idea. He is this years version of Last years Carlos Pena. He is our 4 hitter with pena out of the lineup and has nearly won us 10 games this year with his bat. I cannot think of a more clutch hitter. He hits over .300 with runners in scoring position. I think Rocco could be utilized. I think we should just get rid of Glover or Gross. I will tell you though the way they play Gomes he would be better off traded away. On another team with a full time roll I am sure he can muster 35+ home runs. Alot of people may not like it but it might be the right choice.

Devil Rays World Series 2009

by Japhei on Jun 19, 2008 11:58 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

and has nearly won us 10 games this year with his bat

His WARP is 1.9 and his VORP is 11. He’s won about a game or two.

by R.J. Anderson on Jun 19, 2008 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Screw statistics that are driven by crap. I am talking about with my own eyes I have seen him make quite a few game changing hits.

Devil Rays World Series 2009

by Japhei on Jun 19, 2008 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

they've all made a few game changing hits,

that doesn’t keep them from being expendable…

by davidsmarch on Jun 19, 2008 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's not retarted (also, it's 2008, do people still say "that's retarted"?)

you have to do what you have to do as a team. he may be a contributing member of this team, but he is not 2007 Carlos Pena. in the scenario i outlined, he is expendable and can be traded.

by davidsmarch on Jun 19, 2008 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

1 – Trade Gomes or Ruggiano for a RP
2 – Waive Glover
3 – Call up Rocco

by floridaroar on Jun 19, 2008 1:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't mind seeing this

Trade Gomes and Hinske for Relief relief, and bring up ruggz and rocco. Release Glover.

DH: Rocco/Floyd
RF: Gross/Ruggz

by rglass44 on Jun 19, 2008 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, Yes, 1,000 times yes

Trade Gomes and Hinske for Relief relief, and bring up ruggz and rocco. Release Glover.

DH: Rocco/Floyd
RF: Gross/Ruggz

this is exactly what I had in mind… as long as Baldelli is ready to contribute…
I’d hate to lose Hinsle though, he has been sucha pro-

by Hazleton Jason on Jun 19, 2008 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Okay, I've got it.

Maybe it’s the beers talking or the fact I’m overly excited about pulling off a sweep of the Cubs but how ‘bout this?

- Trade Gomes to the Orioles for Chad Bradford
- Waive Glover
- Room for Rocco

Bradford would give us a playoff tested veteran relief pitcher. He has a ridiculous submarine delivery that would be great to keep opposing batters off balance. He’s a ground ball pitcher that would thrive with our defense behind him.

Thoughts?

by floridaroar on Jun 19, 2008 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he is better than glover so id do it!

i think that bradford would be successful here and it would offically get rid of all of our favorite player gary glover

by RaysOfHope on Jun 19, 2008 11:15 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

step 1: DFA Glover
step 2: ???
step 3: profit!

by blazinrayz on Jun 20, 2008 1:30 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Glover

1. I do not like 7 man bullpens, but a series like this may demonstrate why managers do. We used every one of them except Hammel, and I am pretty sure Glover came in instead of him just in case there was a disaster and a long reliever had to be kept in reserve. In any case, I don’t think any were brought in unnecessarily, nor could any have been used again in game 3. In that sense, the 7 man bullpen served us well this time.

2. If then we assume that a 7 man bullpen is the new norm, I don’t agree with the hostility to Glover. As the last reliever down there, to be used only in situations like yesterday’s, he is probably as good as any other last reliever who serves that role. In his last 6 appearances, he has allowed a run only once, and in his 22 outings just 7 times. In those 7 times, 4 of them did not matter as the Rays were so far ahead they won anyway.

In these past 6 appearances, 3 times he went 2 innings, 4 times he finished the game and 5 times he did his job of saving other bullpen arms by finishing every inning he started.

3. I don’t think he is a good pitcher, but unless there is evidence that he is not doing his best I would not keep slamming him. I certainly would prefer someone else to be on the roster, but having said that once, see no reason to keep obsessing over it. The fact is that used as Maddon is he is not a problem. His role has become to save other bullpen arms, and he has done that pretty well.

4. The issue is probably moot anyway as when Reyes returns it is almost certainly Glover who goes. I know there is some nervousness about this as some think Maddon has an unreasonable preference for Glover, but I think that misreads Maddon. All you have to do is review when he calls upon Balfour and when Glover to recognize that he bases his decisions on performance, not irrational preferences. It’s just that he likes to take some time viewing performances before demoting someone.

by bobr on Jun 20, 2008 9:38 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

I think Maddon has done a pretty good job managing the BP so far. My only concern is if we may end up leaning too much on JP if keep in contention all year.

by rglass44 on Jun 20, 2008 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If it weren't for Glover people would be screaming for Trevor's head.

Loogy’s are good and all, but if he is only going to face lefties at least get them out consistently.

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 20, 2008 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Trever's line

against lefties this year is .171/.275/.229. He is getting lefties out consistently. In 35 ABs, they have 6 hits, 2 doubles, 0 HRs, 5 BBs and 10 Ks and have hit into 2 DPs.

In his 30 appearances this year he has been charged with runs just 6 times. I realize his job is more than that; he has to stop inherited runners from scoring which he failed to do last night. Then again, sometimes every pitcher gets beat, and there is no shame in Fukodome beating him. That man is a good hitter.

On that score, his last 3 outings have been poor, but prior to that he went 6 straight without allowing even 1 base runner, not by a hit or a walk.

Miller is doing his job.

by bobr on Jun 20, 2008 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I stand corrected Bob that is the problem with getting emotional and visual evidence.

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 20, 2008 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If only more fans would realize

that the cliche of “I know what I see with my eyes” is minimally significant in making evaluations and almost useless in discussions. I suppose if one has the trained eye of a scout or coach and a close-up view (by which I mean proximate to, not in the stands) such evidence has some value, although even then it can be partial at best.

Even attending 162 games every year does not qualify a fan to judge (beyond very tentative conclusions) based on observations-at least not judge until s/he reviews the larger record and is able to place it in a context. Especially as fans and not objective observers we are mostly influenced by the spectacular and the dramatic, and those are the observations that stick with us and determine our views.

by bobr on Jun 20, 2008 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well said

You’re writing that last line into your new book, right? I think this is where a lot of people get bogged down in the whole scouts v. stats debate. They aren’t mutually exclusive. You need to live in both realms to see the complete picture as neither, singularly, can tell you a great deal. Sure, you can create great arguments and poke holes in others just using one or the other, but usually personal agendas are pretty clear.

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 20, 2008 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Come on Bob

Glover is the worst player on this team. As Rays fans, we need something to complain about. Glover is really the only thing we have on this roster to complain about. Let us have some fun. We’ve got to hate someone right?

Tools Whore

Sign Bonds!

by Tyler on Jun 20, 2008 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh yes,

I know that. I suppose I simply do not like bashing players on my own team and try to see where they are contributing rather than focusing on their failures. I don’t really want Glover on the team at the expense of a better player. In fact, in other threads I argued he should be dropped to add an offensive player at the expense of a bullpen arm. I would be shocked and upset should Balfour or anyone else be dropped in place of Glover.

But at the same time he is here now and like the comments above about Miller (but with more support, I concede) the impression of him is far more negative than his performance demands. He is a mediocre at best reliever but not a total loss the way Maddon is using him now.

For comparison, here are the numbers of other back of bullpen relievers in our division:

Timlin (Bos.): 21.7 IP; 29 H; 3 HRs; 11 BBs; 12 Ks; 7.06 ERA
Hawkins (NY): 28.7 IP; 27 H; 2 HRs; 15 BBs; 18 Ks; 5.65 ERA
Walker (Balt): 19.3 IP; 26 H; 5 HRs; 7 BBs; 17 Ks; 5.12 ERA
Glover (TB): 23 IP; 25 H; 1 HR; 12 BBs; 15 Ks; 3.91

It is hard to get 7 relievers all of whom pitch acceptably so the real issue is how are they used and are there enough to keep their role limited. Sometimes you are lucky. The Jays have a pretty good 7 man bullpen (including Camp, incidentally). When Reyes returns, ours may also be 7 deep, or at least 6 if Hammel continues to struggle.

by bobr on Jun 20, 2008 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The thing to really like about the 4 you just mentioned

2008 Salary
Walker 4.5M
Hawkins 3.75M
Timlin 3M
Glover 1.075M

Link

Gettin it done for less than the other guy is a pretty sustainable model. I’m really glad that we didn’t run out and overpay for the Scot Shields of the world.

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Jun 20, 2008 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

good post bob

I dont like , but he is FAR better than Camp or Meadows so we culd be doing a lot worse for our last RP. Guys like that used to make up the core of our ‘pen

Either way, I will be pissed if when the time comes to callup Rocco we end up getting rid of Gross or Gomes over Glover

by blazinrayz on Jun 20, 2008 2:23 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I dont have a problem with Miller

He’s not the best, but he is servicable nd rarely gets opportunities to really throw a game away. As soon as he struggles we usually pull him right away and put a righty in there. He’s not that bad

by blazinrayz on Jun 20, 2008 2:24 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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