Rays Putting Stadium On Hold?
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 25, 2008 9:03 AM EDT
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PrintPer 970 WFLA the Rays are apparently considering putting the new waterfront stadium referendum on hold until 2010. There doesn't seem to be a reason out there quite yet, but the logical one would be to build up further support with three (hopefully) winning seasons before asking for the new park.
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Either way, I hope they change the turf at the Trop this offseason
1. It’s hideous
2. CC’s knees
3. The future of BJ’s knees
4. It’s really ugly
5. The blue sunburst
6. It reminds of the indoor/outdoor carpet for patios in the ‘90s
Blake
USF--Class of '09
Whuttya Know
It is FieldTurf. The Rays installed the latest generation of FieldTurf grass in 2007. It is soft, but that’s not the problem. The problem is that it plays too loose and feels like your running on a sandy base which exhausts the legs.
This is bad...
I hate these old * are going to get thier way. If this fails, the city of St. Petersburg does not deserve this team. The fact that we can only draw 16,000 during a pennant race is embarrassing, we have ESPN calling us out nightly about getting out there to support this team. I live in Pennsylvania and cannot get to the Trop hardly ever, but I have been to :
Opening Day in Baltimore
The April Saturday game in New York, when Edwin mowed down the Yanks and Aybar homered
The first 3 game series at Fenway (fri, sat, sun)
And, when I had to go to Brooksville for my uncles funeral, I still went to the Sat night game against the CHiSox.
I was Tampa Bay born, and I am one of those idiots who follows the team from where they came from, basically the reverse of all those Yanks and Sox fans that live in Florida. I was a Floridian who had to move away…
If this fails, the Team should move to the Tampa side- is there any waterfront locations on the Tampa side that would suit this massively awesome ballpark???
This makes me irate, I loved the AC in the trop, but if any of you think that is a baseball stadium you are on crack…
Buiild a really nicve park for a really for a really good team for the true fans that deserve it…
Don’t these people know the amount of money that could come from an All-Star game??? This is horrible news-
I don't think it's a bad thing to wait until 2010
Especially if the ownership makes good on its commitment to the Rays and keeps winning.
And, also, the real estate pricing thing. By that time, it will more than pay off the debt on the Trop.
Do not think that what is hard for you to master is humanly impossible; but if a thing is humanly possible, consider it to be within your reach.
by Orlando Rays on Jun 25, 2008 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
This is the best spot in the area for a stadium
Just my opinion….and I think it is a big cause for the Lightnings attendance figures.
Also there is room in Channelside right now for a new field. Right near the Forum.
It would just require a few more parking garages to be built.
However of course Koules just bought that land and I’m sure the last thing he will want to do is build parking garages for the Rays. Although that could be some type of venture Koules and Sternberg may want to look into. It could help both franchises (if Koules builds bars/shops/restaurants on the land he just bought he will have guaranteed revenue streams during baseball season) to have both a baseball field and the hockey forum right there.
Of course the problem is if they both have games the same night...
Other cities have the same issue (doesn’t Philly have all their stadiums on essentialyl the same block) but that would really be pushing the issue parking wise down at channelside.
Speaking of parking problems
Isn’t there a way using our current design to fit parking “inside” the stadium. Well under the stadium.
Philadelphia parking
is shared by all 4 stadiums (the Link, Citizens Bank, the old spectrum, and wachovia center)
They rarely have an issue, I hav never been traffic more than a half hour leaving a ballgame there…
by Hazleton Jason on Jun 25, 2008 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah it wouldn't be a problem even with all the concerts at the forum
There are so many lots that you can easily build parking garages on….
That's only a problem during NHL playoffs and MLB playoffs
Do not think that what is hard for you to master is humanly impossible; but if a thing is humanly possible, consider it to be within your reach.
by Orlando Rays on Jun 25, 2008 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Hockey and baseball working together?
It would be spectacular.
Vinny and Kaz, Beckham and Stamkos…
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 25, 2008 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
It is really the best place to build a stadium in the area
The location is good (central for the area plus it is a “pretty” area). Plus there are already shops/bars/restaurants that can occupy people. Plus there is still a bunch of free land. Now I’m not sure who owns what but there are quite a few lots that could easily handle a parking garage or a restaurant.
Of course a move like this would really elevate the stature of Tampa at the expense of St Pete. But if you snooze you lose…
What fun would that be?
If they were going to do that then they might as well move the Rays to some rural farm
Stadium
The stadium is children friendly and is cool in the summer. I don’t think spending millions of dollars on a new stadium will attract more fans.
If this is true, then it's a shame
A lot of people have expended a massive amount of time and energy to try to stem the anti-stadium tide here in St Pete, and I truly believe we were making headway. Just in the last couple weeks I’ve seen a huge uptick in pro-stadium signs here in Shore Acres, and they actually outnumber the red ones in my neighborhood. Again, if this is true, then it is very disheartening. To wait minimum 7-8 years for a new stadium is downright depressing.
The silver lining is that if it takes another year or two of planning to iron out the details to make it more palatable for residents, then I guess that’s a good thing. Unfortunately, knowing the attitudes of many in the opposition, NOTHING is going to change their minds.
Jamie DeLuca
Considernig their age they could just be waiting for them to die off...
by matthan on Jun 25, 2008 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
These are old people
not Bebe’s Kids
Do not think that what is hard for you to master is humanly impossible; but if a thing is humanly possible, consider it to be within your reach.
by Orlando Rays on Jun 25, 2008 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Real Estate Market Sucks
By waiting a year or two, they are hoping to get back some of the 20 percent or so that has fallen off the potential purchase price for the Trop site. I think this could eventually be a wise move for both the city and the team. All along I’ve really liked their financing plan, but have felt it would work much better in a healthy economy.
by GomesSweetGomes on Jun 25, 2008 10:29 AM EDT reply actions
Referendum timing
The upside is they have more time to get all the minute details ironed out and better organize their pitch to the voters.
The downside is if they put it up to a vote in a non-presidential election year, the chances increase that old anti-everything crowd will be the majority showing up at the polls. I’m guessing that’s why they chose 2010 instead of next year; at least then you have mid-term elections driving more turnout. In the meantime, raw material costs to build the stadium will almost certainly continue to rise.
Longlorious.
The economy is killing this right now
Amendment #1 brought some ugly budget cuts in the wrong areas, gas will be around $4.50 by the time the vote comes up on this – people are not going to want to fund a stadium during times like this.
by Jason Collette on Jun 25, 2008 12:31 PM EDT reply actions
Could they use Channelside???
I mapquested it and looked at the Satellite image, the spot where channnelside sits right on Ybor harbor looks like a cherry spot, just west of the Aquarium, but east of the Forum.
What kinda stuff would they have to level to get a stadium in that spot. (Im not familiar with that area to well, being out of stater)
That is the center with all the main bars/restaurants/clubs etc.
Now directly west of that is just a giant parking lot. Sure there is a road splitting it in half but that can be rerouted. That area would be prime and it would leave the current restaurant bar area.
Also directly west of the Forum is a parking garage. This is a good piece of land to build a stadium. Granted they’d have to build a parking garage to replace it (use the land east of the forum).
Plus there is open land on Morgan St and Channelside drive that could easily fit in 2 or 3 more parking garages.
Another option
Would be to put it right across the harbor from the aquarium and the current shop/bar area. Not harbour island or davis island but the peninsula with 20th st.
You could build a stadium there and have a big pedestrian bridge over the water linking the channelside area with that area. Would give you tons of spots to park.
The Rays aren't moving out of Pinellas.
Not only are they locked into a long term lease that the county won’t let them out of, but Hillsborough just doesn’t have the money to attract them. They wouldn’t shell out a nickle to draw the Magic, even though no stadium would have been required so there is NO WAY they pay to have the team move, then build them a stadium.
Pipe dream ya’ll.
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 25, 2008 1:33 PM EDT reply actions
PINELLAS.WON'T.LET.THE.RAYS.OUT.OF.THEIR.LEASE
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 25, 2008 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
There's a little bit of doubt in your posting.
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 25, 2008 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I originally quoted that because
it was an absurd statement, but then after posting it I realized the mistake in it. It was brilliant on 2 levels.
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 25, 2008 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
You are dreaming if you think the Rays are going to play in the Trop for the next 20 years (or whatever the lease is)
That my friend is a pipe dream.
I didn't say that they were going to play in the Trop for the next 20 years.
There are plenty of viable options in Pinellas. All I said was they weren’t moving out of this county.
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 25, 2008 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
If the stadium is not approved somewhere within this county within the next handful of years they will move
To Tampa or outside of the area.
So what do you think happens if there is no approval for a new stadium in say the next 5 years? Do you really think the Rays are going to stay put?
I don't think they want to move.
If anything, I think delaying the decision is more proof that they want to stay. The commissioner just trashed the Trop, they’re winning, and the team still can’t get support, they could make the case that moving to Tampa is a better deal for the organization.
Waiting two years almost ensures they’ll get the new stadium.
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 25, 2008 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree. It is just a hypothetical scenario.
IF there is no approval within the next 5 years I see the team moving. I’m sure first they’d explore Tampa, but then they’d move out of the area.
Now I think something will get done in Pinellas county, but nobody can say that is a 100 percent guarantee.
There's not a better market out there.
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 25, 2008 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Overall? No
But if the Rays are stuck at the Trop there are numerous other areas around Tampa Bay and other cities that would have much higher attendance figures plus higher revenue streams (even w/o a modern stadium).
At some point it is going to be more cost-effective for
the Rays to just build the whole stadium themselves. The financial penalties for leaving Pinellas (remember, this is a Vince Namoli deal) are prohibative.
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 25, 2008 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Perhaps
I don’t think the lease is that iron clad. If we are getting attendance, but still have no approval then I can see them building the whole thing. But if attendance tops out around 20-25K then I can still see them trying to get out of the commitment if there is no approval for a stadium.
Our attendance will almost surely grow to around 25K/G before the end of this season.
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 25, 2008 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
If attendance tops out at 20-25K then we are basically guaranteed a new stadium
Why wouldn’t the ownership finance it themselves at that level?
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 25, 2008 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think they would be very happy with being near the bottom of the league in attendance
Especially with a very good team.
I think you will need to see them averaging 30-35K on good seasons and 25K on bad seasons before they pay for the whole thing in Pinellas County. So far Pinellas hasn’t shown in can support a team. There is no way they will build a stadium w/o solid evidence that Pinellas can support a MLB team.
25 K per game would put us in the bottom 3rd but...
It’s 5,000 more than we have now. Not only that but the new location basically guarantees ten times the walk-ups. The idea of street-side retail adds revenue, and having a higher percentage of the stadium sold adds TV revenue.
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 25, 2008 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
All true if it was 25K per game during a 85-100 loss season
The ownership is fully aware of what the attendance will do during poor seasons.
Also wouldn’t for the same reasons you mentioned give the ownership incentive to buy out Pinellas County in order to move the team to a more profitable (higher attendance) area such as say Channelside?
But fund a new stadium in St. Pete means they don't have to buyout the lease.
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Jun 25, 2008 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, but they’d have more upfront costs having to pay for the whole stadium. And they would also have lower attendance figures than if the team was in tampa.
Of course its impossible for us to know which way would be better without doing the capital budgeting. I’m just certain that the Rays will have a new stadium lined up somewhere within the next 5 years.
THE.RAYS.CAN.BUY.THEIR.LEASE.OUT.
If Sternberg is ready to shell out $150m for a stadium, then he can easily buy out of the lease if he wanted to.
Do not think that what is hard for you to master is humanly impossible; but if a thing is humanly possible, consider it to be within your reach.
by Orlando Rays on Jun 25, 2008 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
They should call Uncle Charlie Crist
apparently the budget was so tight we had to cut across the state but found 1.75 billion to buy a sugarcane farm
by Jason Collette on Jun 25, 2008 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
unrelated off topic question
Does anyone know the actual terms of Beckham’s contract? I can only find that its worth less than Price’s and that he got a 6.15 million signing bonus. Thanks
Sounds about right
High school kids get less than college kids
Minor League Contract?
I’m just curious what they’re paying him
Well
It’s not a major league deal and that means they don’t have to structure it like Price’s. Outside of the signing bonus he’s not being paid too handsomely.
by R.J. Anderson on Jun 25, 2008 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
What else that sucks
Now the Marlins get to play in a nice new stadium with the design that the RAYS CAME UP WITH. While we play in that warehouse. Even if they put a retractible roof on that thing, you aren’t getting a cool view of anything…
And crap, you go 2 blocks away from the Trop you are in the freaking ghetto down on Central Ave. Thge Trop is too dark on the inside. And narrow. The “baseball” part of the stadium is good, good sightlines, can be loud when lotsa people there. But they have to get a new place, or it will be Charlotte Rays.
Yeah Charlotte.. last I heard, after a lot of lawsuits and other fun, they are beginning construction on a new minor league stadium. It would make terrific sense to build a major league park right after completing a minor league park.
BTW, Charlotte’s current team plays across the border in South Carolina and are next to last in International League attendance (just ahead of lame duck Richmond).
It’s odd people seem to think it would be any easier or more likely to get a taxpayer funded baseball-only major league stadium in some other (inferior) market. These things are never easy, even in markets with a major league presence for years. Just ask the Twins, Giants, A’s, Marlins, etc.
Yes, the ownership would be wise to leave this region (2.7 mil population, not including Orlando or Sarasota) for Charlotte (1.6 mil.) or any other smaller market.
Longlorious.
Land price?
One of the major hurdles in building a stadium is the price of the land. This can easily increase the price of the project over $100M. Unless Hillsborough county is willing to dedicate this acerage or buy foreclosed land (Newport on Gandy) and then dedicate it. The tax payers better be willing to accept a bill of a lot more than the proposed $450M project.
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