Anemic is too kind a word for this offense
by Jason Collette on Jul 10, 2008 9:59 PM EDT
58 comments
via 66.222.163.244
During this 4 game losing streak, the team is hitting .184 with a .250 OBP and .287 SLG%.
25 for 136 at the plate with 6 extra base hits (2 2B, 4 HR), 12 BB, 36 K's, and 7 runs.
Of course, 2 of the 4 games came against lefties who continue to shut this team down (team now hitting .245 against them this year).
Something has to change. I'd start with the lineup. Our #3 hitter has a .350 OBP but a .309 SLG% since June 10th. If a guy can't drive in runs but can get on base, try him out in the leadoff spot.
Tomorrow will be just as ugly against the best lefty in the game right now if we roll this same lineup out there. They have had 4 days to show something and have shown absolutely nothing.
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i've got it.
Price, niemann, and Ruggiano for Hanley. move over Barty.
by daveh33 on Jul 10, 2008 10:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
not having Bartlett has been one of the problems
by Sveet on Jul 10, 2008 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ding Ding Ding we have a winner
How many innings would we have gotten out of if we had the Bartman?
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 11, 2008 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No thanks.
Hanley is an error machine. Sure he can hit but the Rays win because of their Defense and Pitching. We’d have a worse record this year if we had Hanley instead of Bartlett. If it’s offense you want we can get offense much cheaper by picking up a RF or a DH and keeping a solid defense up the middle.
by floridaroar on Jul 11, 2008 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No Way
Bartlett is good on defense…But nobody is good enough to make up for that type of offense. I could understand if we’re talking Tejada, Young, Jeter level offense…but Hanley is in a class of his own when it comes to offensive production.
by GomesSweetGomes on Jul 11, 2008 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
who needs defense?
we’ve been going about this all wrong… i mean, the Sox have been winning and they have Lugo as their SS, and Manny actually plays behind him…
by daveh33 on Jul 11, 2008 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How many games have we won since Bartlett went down with an injury?
I think you’re under valuing the effect good defense up the middle has on the entire makeup of the game.
Like last night showed, missed double plays extend innings and cost us runs. If we had turned that in the 5th the score would have still been tied; Sonny would likely have stayed in the game; there’d likely have been a much different outcome than 13-2.
by floridaroar on Jul 11, 2008 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bartlett is the most irreplaceable guy we put on the field
by Jason Collette on Jul 11, 2008 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
FAILED
For disrespecting our 3B.
by GomesSweetGomes on Jul 11, 2008 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And You're undervaluing the offensive contribution of Ramirez
I even conceded that an above average or even a star SS may not be able to make up for Bartlett’s defense. But you’re drinking some serious Kool-Aid if you think Bartlett’s glove can make up for the difference btw him and Hanley.
And since Bartlett went out with an injury we are 3-4. During that same strech Ramirez is 15-40 (.375) with 3 home runs, (one of which was a game-winning shot). And since we’re playing the hypo game, I’ll magically insert him into the lineup on Wednesday, and claim he would have led us to victory.
It’s a moot point anyway. We don’t have a package of players to land Hanley that wouldn’t also paralyze our farm system, and Miami plans on buying at the deadline.
by GomesSweetGomes on Jul 11, 2008 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We could have made every play that was possible in the field the past few days and we would have still lost them all. Defense has not been a problem. The fact is right now we cannot hit and we are not scoring runs.
by matthan on Jul 11, 2008 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nonsense.
Easy fly balls sailing over Gomes’ head with 2 outs where a catch would have ended the inning, instead the other team goes on to tack on more runs.
Doubles plays that aren’t made on the infield and again, more runs tacked on.
Defense has been a problem. Offense, and pitching are problems too. You don’t lose 6 in a row without failures in all aspects of the game.
by floridaroar on Jul 12, 2008 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not undervaluing it at all.
He’s a hell of a hitter.
My point is you can get hitters for much less cost (financially and prospects) at other positions, like RF. The team would benefit much more by keeping Bartlett’s glove at SS and adding a bat for a much cheaper cost at RF or DH.
SS is not a major position of need right now, or in the future, for this organization. It makes no sense to mortgage the future on someone who doesn’t fill a prime position of need.
by floridaroar on Jul 12, 2008 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And if they do, they better get a whole hell of a lot in return
Like a starting RF, relief in the bullpen, and that organizations best prospects. But it would never happen. David Price will get called up this year barring injury and will never go back to the minors. IMO Jackson/Sonny is traded or maybe Madden solves 2 problems and put EJax in the pen?
by Rays Rule on Jul 10, 2008 11:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It would be ballsy
And I’d love to see it happen, but I seriously doubt it.
BTW…What cost more, the Sonnanstine Rookie card, or the process of getting it graded?
by GomesSweetGomes on Jul 10, 2008 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
getting it graded
is what my money is on.
Top Josh Paul Pornos- Big Navi Stroking, 2pitchers1cup, BJ to the Balls, Riggans Your Thingans
BELIEVE in 08!
by SRQman on Jul 10, 2008 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, I posted this RC of Sonny which is #'d to 5, and 4 more of same card but 2 were #d to 25 and 2 were #d to 50 (not graded) on Ebay recently. I got an offer for $775 for all
by Rays Rule on Jul 11, 2008 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
#'d to 5?
Reason #943 that I quit collecting cards years ago.
by GomesSweetGomes on Jul 11, 2008 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'mtelling ya, sports cards now a days cost alot of loot. When I was a kid card cost nothing like they do now. 1 freakin pack can cost $500+ Of course it depends on the pack
by Rays Rule on Jul 11, 2008 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gomes, I'm 30 with 3 kids and I love this shit. It's a fun hobby. I guess I always liked cards though. My wife can't stand it!
by Rays Rule on Jul 11, 2008 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love 'em too
But I totally stopped collecting when the card store by my house went out of business in middle school. Once I have more disposable income, and a big enough place to have a memorabilia room, I am fairly certain I’ll get back into it.
by rglass44 on Jul 11, 2008 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What drove me away
Was the artificial doctoring of supply chains. Many companies during the 90’s would release so-called limited edition sets, keep them off the market long enough to have the price guides respond, and then flood it. Those who bought were made to think they were getting something special, when in reality, the companies were simply lying about how many cards were being produced.
That, and the proliferation of subsets. I just felt like I couldn’t keep up with the joneses. This time period also coincided with a point in my life when I became more conscious about what shoes/clothes I wore. I still buy a pack or two a year, and have saved all of my worthless late 80’s and mid 90’s factory sealed sets, but could never see myself getting back into the hobby.
by GomesSweetGomes on Jul 11, 2008 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gomes, I hear ya on the subsets, it gets ridiculous....too bad you dont get back into it. Hey Glass, if you ever need anything, let me know. I have every RC of most current Rays
Longoria, Price, Upton, EJax, Navi, Shields, Kaz, Garza….2 cards alone of Longo are worth like $450-$500. (06 Bowman Chrome Auto Refractor, XFractor)
by Rays Rule on Jul 11, 2008 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
2 cards alone of Longo are worth like $450-$500.
Hence the disposable income comment…
by rglass44 on Jul 11, 2008 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
JASON BAY PLEASE. DFA GARY GLOVER PLEASE. RON MAHAY I GUESS.
ANYTHING AT THIS POINT
by P Brady on Jul 11, 2008 12:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
we havent really seen Price... so maybe if we trade him now
... we won’t miss him that much… it’s like breaking up during the engagement rather than the divorce after 2 weeks.
could you honestly fathom how frightened the Sox/Yanks would be if our first 3 batters were BOSSMAN, Hanley, and Longo?
by daveh33 on Jul 11, 2008 1:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I saw him twice
and I think a rotation of Kaz, Price, Shields and Garza will scare other teams fans also.
Top Josh Paul Pornos- Big Navi Stroking, 2pitchers1cup, BJ to the Balls, Riggans Your Thingans
BELIEVE in 08!
by SRQman on Jul 11, 2008 2:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, i know...
...but aside from Price, I think we have no chance at hanley
by daveh33 on Jul 11, 2008 2:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why in God's name would the Marlins trade Hanley Ramirez?
by acblue on Jul 11, 2008 4:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
It’s not like they’re cellar dwellars.
Why do we want him? We have an adequate shortstop in Bartlett and a farm system full of talent at the position. If we’re to make a trade let’s improve one of our weaker positions.
by floridaroar on Jul 11, 2008 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's also 24 and signed through 2011 to a contract WAAAAY below market.
No way he gets traded for anything but a ridiculously stupid offer.
by acblue on Jul 11, 2008 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They just signed him to an absolutely screaming deal.
He’s signed through 2011. Not the kind of guy you trade unless the return is obscene.
by acblue on Jul 11, 2008 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
we can slap a 'parental advisory' sticker on Gomes
...and hope for the best
by daveh33 on Jul 11, 2008 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This illustrates that a trade wouldn't really change anything.
They’d have been 29-136 with a better player in right? Adding a right-hander isn’t going to make this a drastically different team unless they go Carlos Beltran crazy after the trade. The players on the team just have to hit better and hopefully they figure it out before going to the break in second place.
by tallyray on Jul 11, 2008 10:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd just like to point out
That the Rays have scored one more run than the Yankees this year.
Would anyone call the Yankees offense “anemic”?
by Peter Bendix on Jul 11, 2008 12:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hank Steinbrenner?
Longlorious.
Free Kila Kaaihue!
by RATW on Jul 11, 2008 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would
Cabrera, Cano, and Jeter are all dragging this offense down. The only reason they have a winning record is that they got to clean house against a joke of a interleague schedule
by Jason Collette on Jul 11, 2008 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Rays also have the 11th best OPS in baseball.
Also, the Yanks were 10-8 in interleague play. The Rays were 12-6. Come on.
by Peter Bendix on Jul 11, 2008 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Imagine if CC, BJ, and Pena were performing close to last season's numbers
by td32 on Jul 11, 2008 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would be interesting to see
what positions we are below league average in offense?
My bet SS, 1B, and LF and thats it.
by Sveet on Jul 11, 2008 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
League average by position, or in general?
SS, LF and 2B all have a sub 100 OPS+. If someone knows where to get league averages by position, I would love you forever if you passed on that information. I’ve had to do it by hand a few times and it’s lame lame lame.
by acblue on Jul 11, 2008 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This isn't ideal, but...
Pena is 6th among fulltime 1B in OPS, Bartlett is last among SS, Iwamura is 6th, and Crawford is 28th among outfielders.
by acblue on Jul 11, 2008 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You've got it.
In no particular order, here are Rays players and league averages by position. The first set of numbers is the player’s line; the second set of numbers is the AL average at that position. (NOTE: I used the right fielder average for Gabe Gross and the DH average for Eric Hinske.)
A Iwamura .273/.346 /.376 – .283/.340/.408
C Crawford .277/.322/.395 – .264/.336/.419
B Upton .276/.387/.407 – .271/.334/.414
E Longoria .281/.354/.525 – .265/.337/.425
J Bartlett .256/.299/.293 – .260/.311/.365
C Pena .234/.340 .445 – .261/.344/.421
D Navarro .307/.359/.420 – .264/.327/.396
E Hinske .262/.354/.520 – .246/.332/.413
G Gross .237/.329/.452 – .275/.342/.455
Well what do you know. Gabe “My Hitting Is” Gross is nearly league average at his position. Carlos Pena’s “bad” season is still above average. Carl Crawford is somewhat below average, but I imagine his baserunning makes up some (if not all) of the difference. Even Jason Bartlett’s awful season is not that much worse than league average (and his defense is fantastic, of course).
This offense is not bad, people. Sure, it could use an improvement, but it’s not bad as is.
by Peter Bendix on Jul 11, 2008 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
wow I didn't realize
DH’s sucked that bad
by Sveet on Jul 11, 2008 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BTW Thanks
exactly what I was talking about
by Sveet on Jul 11, 2008 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you using a personal database for league averages by position?
Doing it by hand? Or is this info available somewhere and I just missed it?
by acblue on Jul 11, 2008 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/bsplit.cgi?lg=AL&team=TOT&year=2008
Longlorious.
Free Kila Kaaihue!
by RATW on Jul 11, 2008 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very interesting
thanks for posting
Top Josh Paul Pornos- Big Navi Stroking, 2pitchers1cup, BJ to the Balls, Riggans Your Thingans
BELIEVE in 08!
by SRQman on Jul 11, 2008 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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