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Let's not forget what the goal was going into this year.

Like many people who are following this run that the Rays have been on all year, I saw myself becoming that guy who was screaming how we needed a right fielder, and that another arm in the bullpen would help us get over the hump.  The more and more I think about it though, I really think that this is a different team and a front office that we have dealt with in the past.  These guys have a plan and are not going to break off from it just because we have gone above and beyond the expectations that were set this year.  We all remember what our individual goals were going into this season and no sane person actually felt we would be here at this point in the season. 

This team is setup to be in this spot routinely for the next 4-7 years so I am not willing to part ways with pieces of that future to go for it for one year.  Steve Phillips tried that and all that got him was a desk job at ESPN and he provided us the move that set this entire run into motion.  I know it is a pipe dream knowing what we do about his past, but who is to say that Rocco Baldelli can't be a 2nd half Josh Hamilton, not in terms of his production, but someone who can give this team a nice shot in the arm.  And for 2 months, I really do not think David Price will be set back years if he takes over the 8th inning (slthough after the past few days, I would prefer he is handing the ball to Grant Balfour in the 9th rather than nervy percy).  Perfect example of this method of bringing up young guys to teh bullpen to fill a void is Joba Chamberlain.  He started in the bullpen, and he does not seem to have been ruined by it 

I worry everyday about this year and if we can hold on, but I don't think that that mentality is what is in the front offices of this club. There is a definite goal that these guys have for this team going forward, and up to this point, they have given me no reason to question what they have done to this point.   

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try telling Percival it is okay if we dont try to win the WS this year

because 3 years from now we will be a little bit better.

No we didnt expect to be in this situation, but that doesnt mean we should be content to stand pat while other teams competing against us our making themselves better.

by Dbullsfan on Jul 27, 2008 1:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

because our goal is to make Percival happy....

Top Josh Paul Pornos- Big Navi Stroking, 2pitchers1cup, BJ to the Balls, Riggans Your Thingans

BELIEVE in 08!

by SRQman on Jul 27, 2008 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That is my point R.J.

Maybe I’m just a snob about these people mentioned in these trades but when I hear names like Matt Murton and Jeff Kent, my heart does not exactly go a flutter. I think the term, stay the course needs to be a new mantra that Rays fans and people involved need to start repeating to themselves throughout this stretch run. If we do not make the postseason this year, is anyone gonig to really consider this season a failure. The Rays are 9 wins away from matching its FRANCHISE record for wins in a season with two months to play. Lets all just take a deep breath and enjoy the series finale against the Royals.

by Funkhouser08 on Jul 27, 2008 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with this, no need to get another platoon guy

I think you either go big or stay pat. Tex or Bradley.

by Dbullsfan on Jul 27, 2008 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Trading an awesome young pitcher for two months of a hitter won't hurt the long term plan?"

"I'm like a retarded Adam Dunn mixed with Jason Bartlett" - R.J. Anderson

by P Brady on Jul 27, 2008 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not as much as you would think

While Hellickson may be very good, he may still not crack our rotation for another 3 years. There are a lot of pretty good young pitchers in our system. We will still get 2 first rounders back when we dont sign Tex/Bradley in the off-season.

by Dbullsfan on Jul 27, 2008 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Steve Phillips is a lot of things

but he had no part in the Kazmir-Zambrano deal. I agree for the most part, but part of me wants us to take the right kind of deal, not for the sake of making a deal, but to shake up the lineup a little. Our young, talented Front Office Triumvirate has shown that they can make a good deal at the deadline (Wheels for Wiggy) so lets have something else to brag about by ripping off one of these non-contenders.

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 27, 2008 1:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Hw wasn't the GM at the time of the trade

I’m not asking this out of sarcasim, but was he not the GM at the time of the move? I know you have to do what your owners are instructing you, but you have to be able to know what you have and obviously he did not. If I am wrong I’ll be the first to admit it, but I’m pretty sure that he was the General Manager who made the trade so if he was then he had as much a part as anyone.

by Funkhouser08 on Jul 27, 2008 2:01 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

No, Duquette made the dea;

"I'm like a retarded Adam Dunn mixed with Jason Bartlett" - R.J. Anderson

by P Brady on Jul 27, 2008 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then I stand corrected.

My fault, but to make my point that trade did nothing for that season, and although the Mets still make the postseason frequently, they have teh fiancial ability to cover up mistakes, the Rays do not have that luxury.

by Funkhouser08 on Jul 27, 2008 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think the decision is essentially about the coming years.

I think it is all about this year, and the question is how important will 2 months of whoever is available going to be in helping us get to the post-season. To what extent are our odds improved with each possibility over the odds that we do it with what we have now?

First, I think shoring up the bullpen is the most important consideration. We have 2 pitchers we should not expect to get better (Hammel and Glover), two pitchers who are serious injury risks and whose loss would leave a gaping hole (Reyes and Percival) and one pitcher who should be alright but has experienced some serious control problems and has a limited range of usefullness (Miller). If we could acquire a solid arm, he could replace Glover or Hammel without undue concern that we are sacrificing someone about to contribute (as might be the case with Gomes).

Other than that, I see no reason to think that the team as presently constructed and with the options available in Durham cannot continue to contend all year.

by bobr on Jul 27, 2008 2:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Why would anyone care about our expectations going into the season?

We are sitting in first place with obvious holes in our roster, and the ability to improve. If you think we will be here again next year, I will refer to Bill James, “When a team improves sharply one season they will almost always decline in the next.” This is a defining point in Friedman’s young career – if we make it to the playoffs without making a move he is a genius; if we don’t, he failed being in first place in late July with a stocked minor league system.

Johnny let his baby brother sleep, through the back door and baseball, all the kids are waiting outside, Old days come and go too soon Old friends, heroes, lifetimes. Don't let a single memory fade away

by LeftRight on Jul 27, 2008 4:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

That Bill James quote doesn't really apply here

That’s assuming that personnel stayed the same and some sort of stagnation or decline should be evident. The Rays are getting older as a team but approaching peak, not decline. Think Cleveland last year.

by tallyray on Jul 27, 2008 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Cleveland is a great analogy here, but you need to take it back 2 seasons.

That will reinforce James’ point. Cleveland was contending in ‘05 with a homegrown core 2 years younger than last year. Then they collapsed a bit in ‘06. Made it to the playoffs last year as one of the low-cost, homgrown “teams of the future” along with the D”backs and Rockies. Now, collapse again. S* happens. Cliff Lee looked a core stud in ‘04 and ‘05, then spent 2 seasons in decline before this one. Player and team development is rarely a straight line process.

The Rays have no guarantee of contending in the next 2 years – I’d say it’s likely, but it’s far from guaranteed. There’ll still be pen holes, the offense has to improve, and the rotation is across the board having career to date years. I don’t know that there’s anything out there in any reasonable cost range that can make a difference now, though I would say Mahay and Bradley certainly fit the bill on the surface. I don’t know that KC is really looking to move Mahay – that they signed him to that deal indicates to me they consider him a piece of their short term future, so he may cost more than he’s worth. And a Bradley acquisition would exact a high price – I’d anticipate Davis or Hellickson would have to top that deal.

That said, I think the Rays should be going for it. Contending deep into September or making the playoffs should dramaticlly change the financial picture for the club. There should be big crowds for the balance of this season, and dramatically improved prospects for the foreseeable future. That is what the Rays will need to continue to contend on an ongoing basis, and the sooner that fan base is built up, the better your team’s prospects are. The ability to compete for key added pieces, especially since the needs should be limited, completes the package. Sitting on your hands now and being unwilling to move what may or may not be a pitcher of note downstream seems more shortsighted than strategic to me. And Davis’ peripherals aren’t what they have been as he moves up the ladder. There’s no guarantee he fills a rotation role better than either Jackson or Sonnanstine have in the next season or 2. For the right piece I’d move him – Price and Hellickson are still in the wings, and Niemann is there for depth.

What you move for pen help is another story. But good aquisitions there can sometimes come cheap – no top end high preformer should be required. If you decide that you can live with bartlett’s defense until another good option comes along, Brignac should be a very useful chip. A top guy far down the system could also bring a nice return, and who knows where they’ll be in 3-4 seasons. Risks like that should be easy to swallow.

At any rate, if a useful but costly deal can be done, I’d say go for it. 2-3 good pieces out of your system shouldn’t be unmanageable if the system is as good as you think. Personally I don’t think it is as good as you all think, but these things change as players develop. You’re certainly not the White Sox.

by nyyfaninlaaland on Jul 27, 2008 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually that quote applys to any team that improves by 20 wins in any season.

Hence, “almost always.” As a fan I hope we can sustain success, but history is not on our side. 32 teams since 1969 have improved by 20 wins from one year to the next – 75% of those teams won fewer games the next year. The average decline for those 24 teams was 12 wins. The interesting part about the majority of those 8 teams that bucked the trend? A breakout rookie (longo) combined with a new manager (maddon kinda).

Johnny let his baby brother sleep, through the back door and baseball, all the kids are waiting outside, Old days come and go too soon Old friends, heroes, lifetimes. Don't let a single memory fade away

by LeftRight on Jul 27, 2008 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It is near the beginning of August, not the start of the season

Preseason expectations are meaningless at this point

by matthan on Jul 27, 2008 5:04 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Um, New York was offering more money...

no they werent

we offered a 2 year deal, and no one else would. Percival got more money from us than he wouldve from the high profile teams chasing him.

Frankly I can careless what Percival thinks. He choose money over a ring

by blazinrayz on Jul 27, 2008 9:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Wrong.

http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2007/11/30/troy-percival-snubs-the-yankees-for-rays/


The Yankees were willing to pay Percival a higher salary, sources say, but they wanted him as a set-up man for closer Mariano Rivera.

by R.J. Anderson on Jul 27, 2008 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

im sure that joe maddon had something to do with it as well as he was a coach for the LAA when he played there

longo=ROY. friedman=Executive of the year. Maddon=Manager of the year. Rays=WS champs 08!

by RaysOfHope on Jul 28, 2008 1:42 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The Yankees were willing to pay Percival a higher salary, sources say, but they wanted him as a set-up man for closer Mariano Rivera.

Im sorry, where does this say that the Yanks were willing to give him 2 years?

My math isnt great, but Im pretty sure 2 years at 12 mil is higher than 1 year at 6 mil. Why dont you check on that for me, short circuit

by blazinrayz on Jul 28, 2008 4:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Like I said

If Percival wanted a WS ring he wouldve chose to be a SU man for Boston or NY. So don’t tell me that we should be worried about winning 1 for Percival after he made the decision to choose money and comfort over winning

by blazinrayz on Jul 28, 2008 4:22 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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