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Around SBN: Randy Moss A Raven?

With the clocking ticking towards the Thursday afternoon non-waiver trade deadline, the Mariners reportedly are considering deals that would include left-handed pitcher Jarrod Washburn (Yankees), third baseman Adrian Beltre (Rays) and left fielder Raul Ibanez (Mets).

over 3 years ago Milhouse-van-houten-48036_1__tiny P Brady 168 comments 0 recs  | 

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Beltre would be a huge pickup

But what happens defensively?

I can hear the Evan to SS talk already.

by tallyray on Jul 28, 2008 3:39 PM EDT reply actions  

RF? DH? EVAN TO SS :D

"I'm like a retarded Adam Dunn mixed with Jason Bartlett" - R.J. Anderson

by P Brady on Jul 28, 2008 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bartlett's D is too valuable

If we get Beltre(who btw wont be as expensive as you think because I am sure the Mariners will pay some of his salary)

We will go with this:

C Dioner Navarro
1B Carlos Pena
2B Akinoria Iwamura
SS Jason Bartlett
3B Evan Longoria
LF Carl Crawford
CF B.J Upton
RF Eric Hinske/Gabe Gross
DH Adrian Beltre

I like it, power bat who kills lefties.

by joeybw on Jul 28, 2008 3:43 PM EDT reply actions  

No way do you DH Beltre

Beltre is a better defender than Longoria.

I say you move Longoria out to RF for the stretch run.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Jul 28, 2008 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

...DH him for the next year and a half.

"I'm like a retarded Adam Dunn mixed with Jason Bartlett" - R.J. Anderson

by P Brady on Jul 28, 2008 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

What would we have to give up?

Is he signed past this year? His contract is unbearable

by Sveet on Jul 28, 2008 3:44 PM EDT reply actions  

Beltre has 4m left this year, 12m next year and then he walks

As good as Longo is at 3B, Beltre is just as good if not slightly better. DHing Beltre is odd, but it gives us a good bat and a great insurance policy in case something were to happen. I’d also like to see Longo slide to SS against tough righties where Bartlett is awful.

by Jason Collette on Jul 28, 2008 3:45 PM EDT reply actions  

I agree...

And you can have him or Aybar play first against tough lefties…

by tallyray on Jul 28, 2008 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

if we get Beltre

Hopefully Aybar will be out of the picture

by Sveet on Jul 28, 2008 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why? Floyd yes...

Why Floyd over Aybar? Aybar gives positional flexibility and hits lefties. Floyd adds nothing

by tallyray on Jul 28, 2008 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Aybar hits nobody lately

and Beltre would hit lefties. Floyd hits rightes. Who would DH against rightes?

by Sveet on Jul 28, 2008 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Vs righties….

Gross RF
Hinske DH (or Floyd)

Vs Lefties
Gomes/Beltre RF
Gomes/Beltre DH

I’d keep Aybar for the flexibility but DFA Floyd (or DL him lol)

by matthan on Jul 28, 2008 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Call up Guzman

I can juste see it – the largest infield ever. Beltre-Longoria-Guzman-Pena. That’s more beef than some Division II defensive lines.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Jul 28, 2008 3:47 PM EDT reply actions  

He has been horrible this year vs RHP

I am the only one that isn’t so gung-ho about this. It all depends on what we would have to give up. Hopefully not much if we have to pick up his contract.

by Sveet on Jul 28, 2008 3:50 PM EDT reply actions  

No, I think he's overrated as well

Based on the Rays’ current set up, you’d be trading for a guy who DHs and only has value against LHP. He can’t hit righties for anything.

www.raysbb.com

Yes, we really do have fans.

by killa3312 on Jul 28, 2008 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Beltre is a smidge better defensively than Longo

but certainly not so much better than you move Longoria off the position, that’d be idiotic. Longo’s a better hitter and the new face of the franchise, you move him for no one, and sure as hell not RF. Beltre would DH, because he’s not taking Pena’s spot, and as just a DH, his value diminishes drastically. He’s a pretty good hitter (mashes lefties), and playing at Safeco does hurt his numbers, but I’m really not that enamored with the guy.

It’s probably just me, but I’ve never gotten the fascination with him.

www.raysbb.com

Yes, we really do have fans.

by killa3312 on Jul 28, 2008 3:50 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm sure Safeco depresses power

But Beltre’s OBP is nothing to write home about either

by GomesSweetGomes on Jul 28, 2008 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

in prospects....not dollars

The more I think about it. The more I really don’t think this deal will get done. I can’t imagine Friedman giving up top tier prospects for a guy who would be pretty much be no defensive improvement and be reglegated to a DH vs LHP. Add on that we would be on the hook for 12M next year

by Sveet on Jul 28, 2008 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes.. prospects

If he doesn’t trade a top tier prospects then he is probably saving more than the money difference between Beltre and Bay.

by tallyray on Jul 28, 2008 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

just throw him in RF

who cares if his D is a 3B, i’m sure he can play the corner.

by davidsmarch on Jul 28, 2008 3:59 PM EDT reply actions  

No, but moving Longoria

doesn’t make any sense either. Last I checked, he’s pretty damn good at the hot corner himself, and he’s a better hitter than Beltre.

www.raysbb.com

Yes, we really do have fans.

by killa3312 on Jul 28, 2008 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can't move longo...

I agree. Unless they are sure that Longoria can play SS. You don’t move someone of his age and ability off third.

by tallyray on Jul 28, 2008 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Therefore

unless Beltre can play RF (which I think he can, he can’t be any worse than Hinske out there), there is no point in trading for him. Gomes, even with his struggles, can still hit lefties well and that’s all Beltre would be useful for because he stinks against RHP and he’d have no position defensively.

www.raysbb.com

Yes, we really do have fans.

by killa3312 on Jul 28, 2008 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

dh is a bigger problem than RF

everyone talks about Hinske’s D, but for the stat guys, how many games has he cost us with his defensive ability. (I know there is a formula but I don’t know it) I would imagine that it isn’t as much as people would think, especially if you factor in that his below average range is partially covered by the above average range of CC and Upton.

by Dbullsfan on Jul 28, 2008 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

his below average range is partially covered by the above average range of CC and Upton.

by GomesSweetGomes on Jul 28, 2008 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

See Peter's post below

“So much of Beltre’s value is tied up in his defense.
Trading for him and putting him at DH means you almost certainly have overpaid for him.”

by Sveet on Jul 28, 2008 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

He can play 1st, rf, and dh vs lefties. Rarely 1st, but he can spell pena vs lefties. He can play the OF instead of Gomes vs lefties and/or DH. He would jsut have to accept not playing 3rd.

by matthan on Jul 28, 2008 4:15 PM EDT reply actions  

We can keep gomes

We can play Gomes and Beltre vs lefties and sit Aybar. Aybar as a pinch hitter has more value there anywyas IMO.

by matthan on Jul 28, 2008 4:16 PM EDT reply actions  

Not a bad idea

But of course keeping them all would mean 1 less bullpen arm (though I wouldnt be too sad to see this happen)

by GomesSweetGomes on Jul 28, 2008 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

All of this makes me wonder

Why we signed Floyd in the first place. 2.75 million seems a lot of money to pay for an excuse not to sign Bonds.

by GomesSweetGomes on Jul 28, 2008 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

That was Friedmans #2 mistake behind the Hamilton mistake

by matthan on Jul 28, 2008 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can anyone really hold Hamilton against Friedman?

Was there anyone who thought he should’ve been protected in the Rule V draft?

by Peter Bendix on Jul 28, 2008 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

It was an interesting gamble by them,

Which obviously paid off. But hindsight is 20/20 – hard to hold that against Friedman, given the circumstances at the time.

by Peter Bendix on Jul 28, 2008 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

But technically, he is correct. The Cubs got to choose him before the Reds had a shot at him, but the Reds were willing to trade players for him AND guarantee him a spot on the 40 man roster. So I think its fair to say the Reds thought he should have been protected.

by GomesSweetGomes on Jul 28, 2008 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

And wasn't Bradenton a problem for Hamilton?

Isn’t that where he got into trouble? The guy still has a problem with temptation. Hell, he has a babysitter that I don’t think the Rays would have provided. I don’t think he would have turned out the way he did if he hadn’t left the area. As we all know, sometimes a change of scenery works wonders for a guy.

Anyone who holds Hamilton against the Rays is an idiot. Not to mention if it wasn’t for Friedman, we wouldn’t be talking about Hamilton today. Friedman was the guy that brought him back into the fold.

by rayweaver on Jul 28, 2008 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it was a mistake...

To keep TOmas Perez, Damon Hollins, and I think it was Travis Harper on the 40 man roster, then release them all shortly thereafter was a HUGE mistake.

They hung onto Hammy all those yrs, then when he was finally able to come back, they didnt protect him. If they had a bunch of players that were true contributors, I understand the move. BUt the Rays were awful, and should have protected him.

by td32 on Jul 28, 2008 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

There were a lot of Rays fans saying it before he got picked

It’s hard to hold it against him given his surgery and performance in SS ball, but the point stands that he is the most naturally talented player in the league. But there were people complaining.

Tools Whore

Sign Bonds!

by Tyler on Jul 28, 2008 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

The roster point on Hamilton was

why keep a reliever – Travis Harper – over him, then release the guy you kept the day of the draft? Unless the $100k gotten for selecting and trading the immortal Ryan Goleski in that draft was worth more than Hamilton.

Clearly a case of Monday AM QB’ing, but there were some who thought it was the wrong move at the time. I seem to recall a lot of discussion about this issue here before the 2007 season. And it also appeared in retrospect that the Rays somewhat lost touch with Hamilton’s progress. How could the Reds have known to make that move? Apparently a connection to the Reds’ manager via his brother played a role.

by nyyfaninlaaland on Jul 29, 2008 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

Floyd would be the odd man out. Floyd is clearly a better player than Aybar, but you need some guys with some flexibility.

by matthan on Jul 28, 2008 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

.750 OPS guys are all over the place. At least Gomes and Hinske can pretend to play the outfield.

by GomesSweetGomes on Jul 28, 2008 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

What about .668 OPS guys

Who really can only play 1B and 3B. Which we wouldn’t need if we had Beltre. He can’t play OF. I guess he does play a decent 2B but is that a reason to keep him?

by Sveet on Jul 28, 2008 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

So much of Beltre's value is tied up in his defense.

Trading for him and putting him at DH means you almost certainly have overpaid for him.

by Peter Bendix on Jul 28, 2008 4:17 PM EDT reply actions  

Damn

I was seriously thinking we might get to see Ruggiano sometime soon

Blake
USF--Class of '09

by usfraysfan on Jul 28, 2008 4:22 PM EDT reply actions  

And he's really, really good.

LOL, riiiiiiiiight

I like Beltre a lot, I really do. He helped my fantasy team out a lot last year, but this guy is incredibly inconsistent.

His OBP the last 4 years read as such…

.329
.319
.328
.303

He brings 25/15 type power and speed.

He plays strong defense, but I dont know baout making him our DH. Actually Im weary of signing any infielder to put at DH. Liek a Jeff Kent or Adrian Beltre. I think it shows that we are getting VERY VERY desperate for a RH bat.

by blazinrayz on Jul 28, 2008 4:28 PM EDT reply actions  

obviously he should have

and ONLY because our 40 man roster was so pathetic. We had maybe 20-25 guys worth protecting.

If it all went down this year, I wouldnt have as much of a problem with it. If a team like the Yankees or Red Sox wouldve done it, IU wouldnt have had much of a problem with it.

Why?

because they have real 40 man rosters

2 years ago we were a joke, and our 40 man roster was mostly filled with filler and a handful of real talent sprinkled in

by blazinrayz on Jul 28, 2008 4:32 PM EDT reply actions  

Beltre

Maybe we are planning on spinning him off to someone who needs a 3B but doesn’t match up with the M’s? Maybe him and a B-C prospect pitcher of ours will get us a RF? Remember to expect the unexpected!!!!

SC raysfan

by SC raysfan on Jul 28, 2008 4:32 PM EDT reply actions  

Alliterating with Adrian

Ah-huh! Andy and associates align and assume amazingly agile Adrian as an alternate to Atlanta’s awesome A-type.

by R.J. Anderson on Jul 28, 2008 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Affirmitavely Ashamed

"I'm like a retarded Adam Dunn mixed with Jason Bartlett" - R.J. Anderson

by P Brady on Jul 28, 2008 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Awful.

"I'm like a retarded Adam Dunn mixed with Jason Bartlett" - R.J. Anderson

by P Brady on Jul 28, 2008 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Beltre has a career .784 OPS

and that’s taking into account his 2004 season, which was quite the abberation when you compare to the rest of his career. He’s a good player, mainly because of his glove, but his bat is far from overwhelming.

And yes, I know he’s played the past four seasons in Safeco. What was his excuse in L.A.?

www.raysbb.com

Yes, we really do have fans.

by killa3312 on Jul 28, 2008 4:38 PM EDT reply actions  

He was rushed

but it still doesn’t change the fact that he’s merely a pretty good hitter.

www.raysbb.com

Yes, we really do have fans.

by killa3312 on Jul 28, 2008 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was kidding.

DePo had nothing to do with Beltre, except for making the decision not to re-sign him (which turned out to be the correct call).

by Peter Bendix on Jul 28, 2008 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't be ridiculous.

Derek Lowe is incredibly overpaid. JD Drew was a bust. And Brad Penny can’t even be the starter of the NL’s all-star team.

by Peter Bendix on Jul 28, 2008 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just had a friend call me

He gets an insider email for being a Pirates season ticket holder

The Pirates are in discussions with Boston over sending Jason Bay, Tom Gorzelanny, and prospects for Manny Ramirez and two prospects

He’s forwarding me the email…

by EminenceFront on Jul 28, 2008 4:44 PM EDT reply actions  

Seriously?

All they let us do is eat finger foods with Gerry Hunsicker

by GomesSweetGomes on Jul 28, 2008 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Appearantly its pretty serious

He’s not too happy which usually means something haha

by EminenceFront on Jul 28, 2008 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

MEMEMEME

"I'm like a retarded Adam Dunn mixed with Jason Bartlett" - R.J. Anderson

by P Brady on Jul 28, 2008 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

:O

"I'm like a retarded Adam Dunn mixed with Jason Bartlett" - R.J. Anderson

by P Brady on Jul 28, 2008 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Makes no sense unless its Masterson and Hansen

"I'm like a retarded Adam Dunn mixed with Jason Bartlett" - R.J. Anderson

by P Brady on Jul 28, 2008 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or unless

They were planning on immediately converting Manny into prospects

by GomesSweetGomes on Jul 28, 2008 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

oubt it

"I'm like a retarded Adam Dunn mixed with Jason Bartlett" - R.J. Anderson

by P Brady on Jul 28, 2008 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

That makes little to no sense.

The only way that makes sense is in a three-way deal where Manny ends up somewhere other than Pittsburgh (Arizona perhaps?).

by Peter Bendix on Jul 28, 2008 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe the Pirates sell him to us...

"I'm like a retarded Adam Dunn mixed with Jason Bartlett" - R.J. Anderson

by P Brady on Jul 28, 2008 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

WANT.

Don’t like his attitude, fielding, or antics. BUT WANT HIS BAT! I CAN HAS? PLZKTHXBAI!

B Rad the Ray Fan
www.we-use-more-than-one-stat-here.com

by BWoodrum on Jul 28, 2008 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Favre talk

Bucs trade for him then flip him to the Vikings, who really want him…is that possible?

by matthan on Jul 28, 2008 4:53 PM EDT reply actions  

Are you lost, sir?

B Rad the Ray Fan
www.we-use-more-than-one-stat-here.com

by BWoodrum on Jul 28, 2008 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Honestly

I just want the situation resolved so the asshats at ESPN can focus on the pennant races

by GomesSweetGomes on Jul 28, 2008 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

What is "Favre"

Is that some sort of slang for “favorite”? Why would Pittsburgh want favorite?

by Peter Bendix on Jul 28, 2008 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rays manager Joe Maddon could use a right-handed bat, a southpaw for the back of the bullpen and a starting pitcher. The Mariners…could fill all the Rays’ needs with Adrian Beltre, Arthur Rhodes and Erik Bedard.

Beltre would be nice. Arthur Rhodes is a better LOOGY option then Trever Miller, but I don’t know if he’s what the Rays need in a reliever at this point, and Bedard is injured and has been pretty inconsistent all year. Also, the fact that Bedard’s second start of the season was supposed to be against the Orioles, but decided that his hamstring hurt for one day so he could get his next start against the Rays instead tells me wonders about this guy’s character.

by kericr on Jul 29, 2008 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

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