Beltre? BEL-YES
With the clocking ticking towards the Thursday afternoon non-waiver trade deadline, the Mariners reportedly are considering deals that would include left-handed pitcher Jarrod Washburn (Yankees), third baseman Adrian Beltre (Rays) and left fielder Raul Ibanez (Mets).
over 3 years ago
P Brady
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Beltre would be a huge pickup
But what happens defensively?
I can hear the Evan to SS talk already.
Bartlett's D is too valuable
If we get Beltre(who btw wont be as expensive as you think because I am sure the Mariners will pay some of his salary)
We will go with this:
C Dioner Navarro
1B Carlos Pena
2B Akinoria Iwamura
SS Jason Bartlett
3B Evan Longoria
LF Carl Crawford
CF B.J Upton
RF Eric Hinske/Gabe Gross
DH Adrian Beltre
I like it, power bat who kills lefties.
No way do you DH Beltre
Beltre is a better defender than Longoria.
I say you move Longoria out to RF for the stretch run.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
...DH him for the next year and a half.
"I'm like a retarded Adam Dunn mixed with Jason Bartlett" - R.J. Anderson
Beltre has 4m left this year, 12m next year and then he walks
As good as Longo is at 3B, Beltre is just as good if not slightly better. DHing Beltre is odd, but it gives us a good bat and a great insurance policy in case something were to happen. I’d also like to see Longo slide to SS against tough righties where Bartlett is awful.
I agree...
And you can have him or Aybar play first against tough lefties…
Why? Floyd yes...
Why Floyd over Aybar? Aybar gives positional flexibility and hits lefties. Floyd adds nothing
Aybar hits nobody lately
and Beltre would hit lefties. Floyd hits rightes. Who would DH against rightes?
Call up Guzman
I can juste see it – the largest infield ever. Beltre-Longoria-Guzman-Pena. That’s more beef than some Division II defensive lines.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
He has been horrible this year vs RHP
I am the only one that isn’t so gung-ho about this. It all depends on what we would have to give up. Hopefully not much if we have to pick up his contract.
No, I think he's overrated as well
Based on the Rays’ current set up, you’d be trading for a guy who DHs and only has value against LHP. He can’t hit righties for anything.
www.raysbb.com
Yes, we really do have fans.
Beltre is a smidge better defensively than Longo
but certainly not so much better than you move Longoria off the position, that’d be idiotic. Longo’s a better hitter and the new face of the franchise, you move him for no one, and sure as hell not RF. Beltre would DH, because he’s not taking Pena’s spot, and as just a DH, his value diminishes drastically. He’s a pretty good hitter (mashes lefties), and playing at Safeco does hurt his numbers, but I’m really not that enamored with the guy.
It’s probably just me, but I’ve never gotten the fascination with him.
www.raysbb.com
Yes, we really do have fans.
I'm sure Safeco depresses power
But Beltre’s OBP is nothing to write home about either
by GomesSweetGomes on Jul 28, 2008 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Bay and Holliday are better options...
But Beltre is probably much cheaper.
in prospects....not dollars
The more I think about it. The more I really don’t think this deal will get done. I can’t imagine Friedman giving up top tier prospects for a guy who would be pretty much be no defensive improvement and be reglegated to a DH vs LHP. Add on that we would be on the hook for 12M next year
Yes.. prospects
If he doesn’t trade a top tier prospects then he is probably saving more than the money difference between Beltre and Bay.
Moving one of the best 3B in the league to RF doesn't make sense.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 28, 2008 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
No, but moving Longoria
doesn’t make any sense either. Last I checked, he’s pretty damn good at the hot corner himself, and he’s a better hitter than Beltre.
www.raysbb.com
Yes, we really do have fans.
Can't move longo...
I agree. Unless they are sure that Longoria can play SS. You don’t move someone of his age and ability off third.
Therefore
unless Beltre can play RF (which I think he can, he can’t be any worse than Hinske out there), there is no point in trading for him. Gomes, even with his struggles, can still hit lefties well and that’s all Beltre would be useful for because he stinks against RHP and he’d have no position defensively.
www.raysbb.com
Yes, we really do have fans.
dh is a bigger problem than RF
everyone talks about Hinske’s D, but for the stat guys, how many games has he cost us with his defensive ability. (I know there is a formula but I don’t know it) I would imagine that it isn’t as much as people would think, especially if you factor in that his below average range is partially covered by the above average range of CC and Upton.
his below average range is partially covered by the above average range of CC and Upton.
by GomesSweetGomes on Jul 28, 2008 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
See Peter's post below
“So much of Beltre’s value is tied up in his defense.
Trading for him and putting him at DH means you almost certainly have overpaid for him.”
We can keep gomes
We can play Gomes and Beltre vs lefties and sit Aybar. Aybar as a pinch hitter has more value there anywyas IMO.
Not a bad idea
But of course keeping them all would mean 1 less bullpen arm (though I wouldnt be too sad to see this happen)
by GomesSweetGomes on Jul 28, 2008 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
All of this makes me wonder
Why we signed Floyd in the first place. 2.75 million seems a lot of money to pay for an excuse not to sign Bonds.
by GomesSweetGomes on Jul 28, 2008 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Can anyone really hold Hamilton against Friedman?
Was there anyone who thought he should’ve been protected in the Rule V draft?
by Peter Bendix on Jul 28, 2008 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
It was an interesting gamble by them,
Which obviously paid off. But hindsight is 20/20 – hard to hold that against Friedman, given the circumstances at the time.
by Peter Bendix on Jul 28, 2008 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
But technically, he is correct. The Cubs got to choose him before the Reds had a shot at him, but the Reds were willing to trade players for him AND guarantee him a spot on the 40 man roster. So I think its fair to say the Reds thought he should have been protected.
by GomesSweetGomes on Jul 28, 2008 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not saying I would have done anything differently than Friedman
But no matter how you slice it Hamilton is a stud (perhaps the best in the game) and we got nothing for him.
And wasn't Bradenton a problem for Hamilton?
Isn’t that where he got into trouble? The guy still has a problem with temptation. Hell, he has a babysitter that I don’t think the Rays would have provided. I don’t think he would have turned out the way he did if he hadn’t left the area. As we all know, sometimes a change of scenery works wonders for a guy.
Anyone who holds Hamilton against the Rays is an idiot. Not to mention if it wasn’t for Friedman, we wouldn’t be talking about Hamilton today. Friedman was the guy that brought him back into the fold.
I think it was a mistake...
To keep TOmas Perez, Damon Hollins, and I think it was Travis Harper on the 40 man roster, then release them all shortly thereafter was a HUGE mistake.
They hung onto Hammy all those yrs, then when he was finally able to come back, they didnt protect him. If they had a bunch of players that were true contributors, I understand the move. BUt the Rays were awful, and should have protected him.
There were a lot of Rays fans saying it before he got picked
It’s hard to hold it against him given his surgery and performance in SS ball, but the point stands that he is the most naturally talented player in the league. But there were people complaining.
Tools Whore
Sign Bonds!
The roster point on Hamilton was
why keep a reliever – Travis Harper – over him, then release the guy you kept the day of the draft? Unless the $100k gotten for selecting and trading the immortal Ryan Goleski in that draft was worth more than Hamilton.
Clearly a case of Monday AM QB’ing, but there were some who thought it was the wrong move at the time. I seem to recall a lot of discussion about this issue here before the 2007 season. And it also appeared in retrospect that the Rays somewhat lost touch with Hamilton’s progress. How could the Reds have known to make that move? Apparently a connection to the Reds’ manager via his brother played a role.
by nyyfaninlaaland on Jul 29, 2008 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
Floyd would be the odd man out. Floyd is clearly a better player than Aybar, but you need some guys with some flexibility.
Agreed
.750 OPS guys are all over the place. At least Gomes and Hinske can pretend to play the outfield.
by GomesSweetGomes on Jul 28, 2008 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
What about .668 OPS guys
Who really can only play 1B and 3B. Which we wouldn’t need if we had Beltre. He can’t play OF. I guess he does play a decent 2B but is that a reason to keep him?
So much of Beltre's value is tied up in his defense.
Trading for him and putting him at DH means you almost certainly have overpaid for him.
And he's really, really good.
LOL, riiiiiiiiight
I like Beltre a lot, I really do. He helped my fantasy team out a lot last year, but this guy is incredibly inconsistent.
His OBP the last 4 years read as such…
.329
.319
.328
.303
He brings 25/15 type power and speed.
He plays strong defense, but I dont know baout making him our DH. Actually Im weary of signing any infielder to put at DH. Liek a Jeff Kent or Adrian Beltre. I think it shows that we are getting VERY VERY desperate for a RH bat.
obviously he should have
and ONLY because our 40 man roster was so pathetic. We had maybe 20-25 guys worth protecting.
If it all went down this year, I wouldnt have as much of a problem with it. If a team like the Yankees or Red Sox wouldve done it, IU wouldnt have had much of a problem with it.
Why?
because they have real 40 man rosters
2 years ago we were a joke, and our 40 man roster was mostly filled with filler and a handful of real talent sprinkled in
Beltre
Maybe we are planning on spinning him off to someone who needs a 3B but doesn’t match up with the M’s? Maybe him and a B-C prospect pitcher of ours will get us a RF? Remember to expect the unexpected!!!!
SC raysfan
Alliterating with Adrian
Ah-huh! Andy and associates align and assume amazingly agile Adrian as an alternate to Atlanta’s awesome A-type.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 28, 2008 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Awful? Act appropriate as all around amazing appears.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 28, 2008 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Alas, All Assimilating Anderson's Annoy.
"I'm like a retarded Adam Dunn mixed with Jason Bartlett" - R.J. Anderson
JOSH HAMILTON DOESN'T CARE ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE.
There, we’re done, He’s a racist, and we’re all glad he’s gone.
"I'm like a retarded Adam Dunn mixed with Jason Bartlett" - R.J. Anderson
Someone's going to take you seriously...
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 28, 2008 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Beltre has a career .784 OPS
and that’s taking into account his 2004 season, which was quite the abberation when you compare to the rest of his career. He’s a good player, mainly because of his glove, but his bat is far from overwhelming.
And yes, I know he’s played the past four seasons in Safeco. What was his excuse in L.A.?
www.raysbb.com
Yes, we really do have fans.
I think we can blame Paul DePodesta
For most of Beltre’s failings.
by Peter Bendix on Jul 28, 2008 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
He was rushed
but it still doesn’t change the fact that he’s merely a pretty good hitter.
www.raysbb.com
Yes, we really do have fans.
I was kidding.
DePo had nothing to do with Beltre, except for making the decision not to re-sign him (which turned out to be the correct call).
by Peter Bendix on Jul 28, 2008 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
It's almost like DePodesta is a good GM.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 28, 2008 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't be ridiculous.
Derek Lowe is incredibly overpaid. JD Drew was a bust. And Brad Penny can’t even be the starter of the NL’s all-star team.
by Peter Bendix on Jul 28, 2008 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Just had a friend call me
He gets an insider email for being a Pirates season ticket holder
The Pirates are in discussions with Boston over sending Jason Bay, Tom Gorzelanny, and prospects for Manny Ramirez and two prospects
He’s forwarding me the email…
Seriously?
All they let us do is eat finger foods with Gerry Hunsicker
by GomesSweetGomes on Jul 28, 2008 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Appearantly its pretty serious
He’s not too happy which usually means something haha
by EminenceFront on Jul 28, 2008 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll forward the email to RJ or STP when I get it....
by EminenceFront on Jul 28, 2008 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll send half the email to RJ
and the other half to STP
by EminenceFront on Jul 28, 2008 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Ooh, ooh! And send the title of the email to me!
B Rad the Ray Fan
www.we-use-more-than-one-stat-here.com
V1@GRA,,,,,P1LL$ m@K3 Y0U B1GG3r
I’ll send you my spam
by EminenceFront on Jul 28, 2008 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh wow! I feel like I'm part of a secret society!
B Rad the Ray Fan
www.we-use-more-than-one-stat-here.com
Makes no sense unless its Masterson and Hansen
"I'm like a retarded Adam Dunn mixed with Jason Bartlett" - R.J. Anderson
Or unless
They were planning on immediately converting Manny into prospects
by GomesSweetGomes on Jul 28, 2008 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
That makes little to no sense.
The only way that makes sense is in a three-way deal where Manny ends up somewhere other than Pittsburgh (Arizona perhaps?).
by Peter Bendix on Jul 28, 2008 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe the Pirates sell him to us...
"I'm like a retarded Adam Dunn mixed with Jason Bartlett" - R.J. Anderson
This ain't your mama's Pirates.
Neal Huntington is in charge now.
by Peter Bendix on Jul 28, 2008 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Ownership denied a pretty good Bay deal.
"I'm like a retarded Adam Dunn mixed with Jason Bartlett" - R.J. Anderson
Unless the other prospects were named and I missed it of course.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 28, 2008 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Those were 2 not too shabby prospects, a reportedly toolsy A ball pitcher, and another for Bay.
Not bad.
"I'm like a retarded Adam Dunn mixed with Jason Bartlett" - R.J. Anderson
Favre talk
Bucs trade for him then flip him to the Vikings, who really want him…is that possible?
This might be the most random thing ever.
But I can’t see the Bucs letting Favre get away from them.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 28, 2008 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Honestly
I just want the situation resolved so the asshats at ESPN can focus on the pennant races
by GomesSweetGomes on Jul 28, 2008 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
What is "Favre"
Is that some sort of slang for “favorite”? Why would Pittsburgh want favorite?
by Peter Bendix on Jul 28, 2008 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
"The Rays reinstated RHP Gary Glover from the disabled list on Monday and then designated him for assignment."
by EminenceFront on Jul 28, 2008 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Fixed
Because Glover is out of options, the Rays can’t send him directly to the majors minors.
by GomesSweetGomes on Jul 28, 2008 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Also in the article
As for tonight’s game here in Toronto, the Rays have Cliff Floyd back from his brief paternity leave and what, for now, passes as their regular lineup:
Wow
by GomesSweetGomes on Jul 28, 2008 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
So who gets called up?
Or are we making room for a multi-player deal maybe?
by EminenceFront on Jul 28, 2008 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I went over to the St. Pete Times Rays page
To see the latest on Glover, and found it funny that the page has a big picture of Maddon smiling
by GomesSweetGomes on Jul 28, 2008 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
This is speculation packaged as an actual rumor it seems
http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/content/printer_friendly/mlb/y2008/m07/d28/c3211613.jsp
That’s the article the writer in this case is quoting.
Rays manager Joe Maddon could use a right-handed bat, a southpaw for the back of the bullpen and a starting pitcher. The Mariners…could fill all the Rays’ needs with Adrian Beltre, Arthur Rhodes and Erik Bedard.
Beltre would be nice. Arthur Rhodes is a better LOOGY option then Trever Miller, but I don’t know if he’s what the Rays need in a reliever at this point, and Bedard is injured and has been pretty inconsistent all year. Also, the fact that Bedard’s second start of the season was supposed to be against the Orioles, but decided that his hamstring hurt for one day so he could get his next start against the Rays instead tells me wonders about this guy’s character.
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