The Angels are apparently close to a Mark Teixeira deal.
about 1 year ago
R.J. Anderson
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As I've said before
If the Rays offer up Pena in this deal then the benefit of bringing Teixeria declines significantly since the Rays need to pick up offense more than anything else. Pena’s swinging a mighty hot stick right now and he’ll probably remain productive for the rest of the year. Having these two rotate between 1B and DH is the best option.
If they do send Pena on his way, hopefully we pick up more pieces then just Teix in the trade.
by kericr on Jul 29, 2008 5:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
They most likely wont send pena, also, JESUS CHRIST:
Aki
Beej
Longo
Tex
Pena
CC
Navi
Hitske/Gross/Gomes
Barty
"I'm like a retarded Adam Dunn mixed with Jason Bartlett" - R.J. Anderson
by P Brady on Jul 29, 2008 5:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
COMPLETELY UNCALLED FOR
I don’t see Zobrist anywhere in that lineup.
by kericr on Jul 29, 2008 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Olney says the Braves want pitching for Tex.
Posted by Buster Olney
“As the Braves consider offers on a possible deal for first baseman Mark Teixeira, they’re faced with the real possibility that the injury to Tim Hudson’s pitching elbow is significant. According to sources, the early indications from teams in talks about Teixeira are that the Braves are asking for some form of pitching in return.”
We have some of this to give without giving up Pena.
Protect the Trop: Keep northerners out.
by St Pete Native on Jul 29, 2008 5:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
*Stares at Barnese*
So long, good friend
"I'm like a retarded Adam Dunn mixed with Jason Bartlett" - R.J. Anderson
by P Brady on Jul 29, 2008 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldnt be that upset about give Barnese up.
Mainly because he is so young and still relatively an unproven commodity, he is still in the NYPL. Also more personally I guess I havent become attached to him like I have with Price, Hellickson, and Davis.
ESPN -- The Red Sox Network
by St Pete Native on Jul 29, 2008 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This deal makes so much sense any way its sliced
If they pull the trigger, this could pan out one of 2 ways.
1. They can use the 12 million they save towards resinging Tex, or
2. They can call up Dan Johnson, get similar, albeit inferior production from what Pena has given them thus far this year, and use the 12 mil they saved on extending Upton, Howell, Balfour, etc…or finding a RF upgrade on the open market…Plus they’d get 2 First round draft picks.
Yes, Pena is a very good player in a team friendly contract. But he’s very replaceable…especially if he continues to hit like he has in every year except for last.
by GomesSweetGomes on Jul 29, 2008 5:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I should have said
They could use the 18 mil they saved
by GomesSweetGomes on Jul 29, 2008 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Math?
I thought that Pena was running at an 8mil/yr clip.
by kericr on Jul 29, 2008 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's making 6 this year
His salary goes up through the life of the contract, meaning that the best marginal utility in the savings could very well lay in the last 2 years.
by GomesSweetGomes on Jul 29, 2008 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He isn't that easy to replace...
Yes, Teixeira replaces him this year but not next year.
Dan Johnson is not Carlos Pena offensively or defensively…
The one thing Carlos Pena offers is the potential to be what he was last year. Dan Johnson has the potential to be what Carlos Pena was this year.
Since 2000 there have been about 16 players per year that post a 120 OPS+ or better at first or DH. Players like Carlos Pena aren’t easy to replace.
by tallyray on Jul 29, 2008 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Milton Bradley continues his pace
He will be one of them, right? Also, isn’t Travis Hafner one of them too? It was a great season no doubt, but it is starting to look like the exception. I’m not suggesting Dan Johnson should be expected to completely replace Pena, but that Dan Johnson, and a better right fielder or DH could easily replace Pean + what we have now. Dan Johnson doesn’t have to replace Pena for the Rays to stay in contention for years to come.
by GomesSweetGomes on Jul 29, 2008 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't see why
we couldn’t send then Dan Johnson if a first baseman doesn’t have to be the centerpiece. I doubt many teams could match that kind of throw in.
by Vin on Jul 29, 2008 5:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That works too
Its not crazy to assume another team would want him, as we did have the 1st chance at him
by GomesSweetGomes on Jul 29, 2008 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
STREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET
A’s GM Billy Beane is fielding offers from teams and still may deal closer Huston Street. The Dodgers, Rays, Brewers, White Sox and Mets have all checked in. It’s believed the Mets are reluctant to surrender their top prospects, though, so it may be tough for them to get Street. Another possibility for the Mets would be to promote hard-throwing reliever Eddie Kunz at some point this year.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 29, 2008 5:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
STREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET
"I'm like a retarded Adam Dunn mixed with Jason Bartlett" - R.J. Anderson
by P Brady on Jul 29, 2008 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
1 month ago, in fact
"I'm like a retarded Adam Dunn mixed with Jason Bartlett" - R.J. Anderson
by P Brady on Jul 29, 2008 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hate being a buyer on the trade market
It was much easier in the past being a seller because I didn’t stress about it. I’m way too worked up this week at a time when I do not need to be.
by Jason Collette on Jul 29, 2008 5:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Although it's funner this year.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 29, 2008 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will say
The prospect of them not making a move stresses me a lot more than the prospect of overpaying, which wouldn’t be felt for a few years.
by GomesSweetGomes on Jul 29, 2008 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno about that
When the season is over, and especially in ST ‘09, I think most of you would appreciate not dealing our prospects for a rental.
Especially since I’m fairly confident we could land someone like Kemp for whoever it is we’d be trading away in the offseason anyway.
by Vin on Jul 29, 2008 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We don't need to field the greatest triple A team in the world
We need to field the greatest MLB team in the world. I understand your point, and prospects are great. But there comes a point where you don’t need so many major league ready players (or close to major league ready).
by matthan on Jul 29, 2008 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The greatest MLB team in the world for a few months...
Even then that guarantees you nothing in the playoffs.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 29, 2008 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure
But the better the team is the higher the chance of success in the playoffs. I’m all for a great farm system, but we don’t want our prospects to rot in the minors just because we want depth just in case the charter plane crashes and we need to promote 9 players at a time.
by matthan on Jul 29, 2008 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
There also comes a point
when aging, under producing veterans need to be replaced by guys in the minors.
We’re going to have a retarded amount of MLB ready talent in ST next year. But ignoring all that, I still think we could land a young, team controlled RF’er for any of these guys we’re talking about trading if we wait until the offseason.
by Vin on Jul 29, 2008 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just don't see us at that point
Before 2010 at the earliest
by GomesSweetGomes on Jul 29, 2008 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We are already at that point in terms of starting pitching
Position players is a whole different matter. So why not flip the excess starters to fill holes at the major league level?
by matthan on Jul 29, 2008 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You just said it
‘especially in ST ‘09’
We are talking about what stresses us now.
by GomesSweetGomes on Jul 29, 2008 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And thats fine
but I don’t think the line-up is as bad they’re playing right now. A 3 week slump hurts, bad, but trading away Sonny/Jackson/Niemann/Davis/Hellickson/blah/blah/blah for a rental would be an overreaction, IMO.
by Vin on Jul 29, 2008 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A bat is far more important than Street
Christ just do it already
Dan Johnson, Jeff Neimann, Edwin Jackson/Andy Sonnanstine for Teix and Ohman
by matthan on Jul 29, 2008 5:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Then Hammell for a few starts
Then the Price becomes right
by matthan on Jul 29, 2008 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then Price moves to the pen for the playoffs
We go with a Kaz, Shields, Garza rotation for the playoffs (perhaps sneaking Andy/Edwin/Price in for 1 start).
by matthan on Jul 29, 2008 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Davis to pen Price as that mop-up 4th starter guy
"I'm like a retarded Adam Dunn mixed with Jason Bartlett" - R.J. Anderson
by P Brady on Jul 29, 2008 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think that would happen...
Though I can see Atlanta enjoying a deal that sends Neimann and Jackson/Sonny there way. Those are two major league ready starters who could be above average NL starters.
by tallyray on Jul 29, 2008 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It should happen
The Rays would barely feel it pitching wise once Price comes up. Plus our pen is improved. It is a net gain for both teams
by matthan on Jul 29, 2008 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather throw Price out there then Hammel, have you see his #s?
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 29, 2008 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well I mean Hammel for a couple starts
Maybe even skipping the 5th spot for a round. Just to give Price a couple more starts in the minors. But really that is nitpicking
by matthan on Jul 29, 2008 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It does hurt the Rays
Because it kills their depth. The Rays have the benefit now of having two options in case of injury (Neimann than Price). If they trade Niemann and a current starter they are really counting on players staying healthy.
I still think it’d be a good trade, just don’t think the Rays won’t suffer.
by tallyray on Jul 29, 2008 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is getting late in the season though and an injury is unlikely
Also, if Kaz or Shields goes down we are shit out of luck anyways.
by matthan on Jul 29, 2008 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about Garza, Price, or Sonny/Jackson?
If one of them goes down now then we have Niemann. If we trade Niemann and Jackson then we have nothing to back it up.
Depth has a lot more value than most realize.
by tallyray on Jul 29, 2008 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Davis would get smashed starting right now...
Kazmir/Shields/Garza/Price/Sonny
Then who? Hammel? that’s it. The replacement level depth disappears.
Again, I’m not arguing they shouldn’t be traded, I am just saying that the depth is very valuable.
by tallyray on Jul 29, 2008 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even in that worst case scenario where Davis has to start he would have a limited number of starts
The damage would be minimal even if we went by your assumption that he would get smashed.
by matthan on Jul 29, 2008 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Remember we are talking about the #5 starter late in the season
by matthan on Jul 29, 2008 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Assuming you're both right
The “minimal” damage could cost the Rays a playoff spot.
Jackson and Sonny are both coin-flips each start. If Davis goes out and is a guaranteed loss, that’s the season.
by kericr on Jul 29, 2008 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ugh
Sonny: 3ER or less in 9 of his last 11 starts.
10 of his last 11 if Reyes doesn’t give us that fucking HR after getting ahead 0-2.
by Vin on Jul 29, 2008 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see your point
I didn’t look at the numbers, but what I’m trying to say is still valid. Neither of those guys are guaranteed losses, and if Davis is, then that’s a problem.
by kericr on Jul 29, 2008 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course that is assuming such a wide gap between them and Davis
And also assuming how many starts we would force be forced to have the #5 guy make
by matthan on Jul 29, 2008 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And next...
Considering Niemann would help then as well.
by tallyray on Jul 29, 2008 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that is giving up way to much
You have to take that Jackson/Sonny part out of the trade. I know we get Ohman with your trade, but I still feels like to much to me. I’d rather change it to Barnese or something
by KazforPresident on Jul 29, 2008 5:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
I’d rather have Barnese than Edwin or Sonny at this point from the standpoint of this trade. Yes Edwin/Sonny have more overall value to the average MLB team, but they shouldn’t to us. We have tons of ML ready starters and we need to think those numbers by 1 or 2.
by matthan on Jul 29, 2008 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are putting the idea
that Barnese will be as good as Edwin or Sonny. We have no idea how good he can be and both have proven this season to be able to be a solid starter
by KazforPresident on Jul 29, 2008 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But Edwin and Sonny have limited value to the Rays
Because they will be passed up on the totem pole very soon. At least one will 100% guaranteed due to Price.
by matthan on Jul 29, 2008 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is a valid point that I didn't think of.
I wouldn’t mind that trade as much just because I know we need a bat and with one very good bat I honestly think we could do some damage in the playoffs.
by KazforPresident on Jul 29, 2008 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Once Price starts the one player between Sonny/Jackson will lose a boatload of value
1. Teams know we would want to trade him
2. Relievers have less value
Right now we are in a position of strength with them and they will be at their peak value.
by matthan on Jul 29, 2008 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Part 1 doesn't fly
Since the demand doesn’t change. The price the Rays ask may change but that is under their control. Teams need starters and there are plenty of teams in need of capable starters.
by tallyray on Jul 29, 2008 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Apprently Kotchman for Tex is in the works
according to Stark
by CCisawesome on Jul 29, 2008 5:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The Angels will be moronic to do that
by matthan on Jul 29, 2008 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They have a much greater ability to sign him than the Rays do
by tallyray on Jul 29, 2008 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beat me to the punch
Teams like Boston, NY, and ANA work within a different paradigm…One that usually allows them to go after the best player.
by GomesSweetGomes on Jul 29, 2008 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I told you
Well, not you specifically. But still.
by Vin on Jul 29, 2008 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
Manny without the ability to be Manny
by GomesSweetGomes on Jul 29, 2008 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Royals are idiots so I'd start the offers
1. dozen bats for Jose Guillen
2. dozen autographed bats for Jose Guillen
3. Wade Hendrickson for Jose Guillen
4. Matt Walker for Jose Guillen
by matthan on Jul 29, 2008 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
5. We’ll take Jose Guillen off your hands for < 9000!!! dollars.
by kericr on Jul 29, 2008 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No...Can't get along with anyone, anywhere
Only thing that would even remotely interest me with him is he said he’s so desperate to get out he’ll defer his salary for ‘09-10…Decent bat..sorry attitude….
by arkansasraysfan on Jul 29, 2008 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He doesn't have the power
To defer his salary unless he signs an extension. It would violate the Collective Bargaining Agreement. The Royals can take on his salary.
by GomesSweetGomes on Jul 29, 2008 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Id rather have...
Beltre or Francour
by CCisawesome on Jul 29, 2008 5:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
LOOKS LIKE I PICKED THE WRONG WEEK TO QUIT DRINKING
According to an American League source, the Angels and Braves are close to a deal that would send Mark Teixeira to the Angels for first baseman Casey Kotchman and pitcher Stephen Marek.
"I'm like a retarded Adam Dunn mixed with Jason Bartlett" - R.J. Anderson
by P Brady on Jul 29, 2008 5:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
ESPN News
reporting that its a done deal.
by Vin on Jul 29, 2008 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sickels rated Marek as a C+
So Kotchman was the only piece. They seemed to be pushing hard for Conor Jackson as well. If they wanted a first base replacement then there is nothing Friedman could have done.
by tallyray on Jul 29, 2008 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And by a little too
I’d cornered the Airplane joke market for the thread
by GomesSweetGomes on Jul 29, 2008 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They must really have wanted a 1B back bad
That has to be the only reason why the Rays couldn’t pull the trigger on this, they wouldn’t offer Pena. They could have offered Pena and easily a better pitching prospect. If the Braves had to have a league-ready 1B, I’m glad the Rays didn’t do this.
by kericr on Jul 29, 2008 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Couldn't they have at least waited
Till a night that Anaheim wasn’t playing Boston?
by GomesSweetGomes on Jul 29, 2008 6:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
not really
at least he’s not in the AL East.
by Vin on Jul 29, 2008 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the Braves got more for him than the Rangers
by matthan on Jul 29, 2008 6:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Much batter than Saltalanotgonnaworkhereanymore
by GomesSweetGomes on Jul 29, 2008 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
...
...
"I'm like a retarded Adam Dunn mixed with Jason Bartlett" - R.J. Anderson
by P Brady on Jul 29, 2008 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Salty was/is a top catching prospect. Give me him over Kotchman
"I'm like a retarded Adam Dunn mixed with Jason Bartlett" - R.J. Anderson
by P Brady on Jul 29, 2008 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention the two other top prospects Texas got.
Kotchman has a .774 OPS and hacks as much as crawford. Basically hes a 1B version of Crawford offensively.
"I'm like a retarded Adam Dunn mixed with Jason Bartlett" - R.J. Anderson
by P Brady on Jul 29, 2008 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Feliz and Andrus plus Harrison and Beau Jones
the Rangers cleaned the Braves clock on that deal
by Jason Collette on Jul 29, 2008 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You realize Pena is better better than Kotchman, right?
You wanted to replace Pena a few weeks ago, now you’re willing to say he’s a good haul for Teixeira?
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 29, 2008 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the Rangers had kept him they'd be battling for the wild card right now
by matthan on Jul 29, 2008 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They've scored 56 runs more than any other team in the AL
I don’t think he’d have mattered that much unless he’s been working on his slider.
by tallyray on Jul 29, 2008 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, if the Rangers had a defense they'd be battling for the wild card.
Teixeira would add some D, but his offense would’ve been dessert, not dinner.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 29, 2008 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kinsler
Young
Bradley
Hammy
Tex
....
"I'm like a retarded Adam Dunn mixed with Jason Bartlett" - R.J. Anderson
by P Brady on Jul 29, 2008 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and kinsler, young, and hamilton have been below-average defensively
Young and Kinsler to a great degree
by Sky Kalkman on Jul 29, 2008 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Young's range is gone...Kinsler's defense was never a strongsuit
but if Kinsler keeps hitting like that, who cares :)
by Jason Collette on Jul 29, 2008 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and that is their double-play, up the middle combo
Maybe there is something to being strong at 2, 4, 6, 8.
Duh
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.
by Sandy Kazmir on Jul 30, 2008 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, there goes that idea.
Do not think that what is hard for you to master is humanly impossible; but if a thing is humanly possible, consider it to be within your reach.
by Orlando Rays on Jul 29, 2008 7:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
# # The Rays are looking for a right-handed bat, and here comes one—Rocco Baldelli. After hitting well and playing the field in Double-A during a second rehab assignment, Baldelli is playing well enough and recovering well enough to bring it back to the Trop. Baldelli was always the fall-back position if a bat couldn’t be found at the Rays’ designated price, and as it turns out, it couldn’t. For those wondering, I’m told the Rays never made a competitive offer for Teixeira.
by R.J. Anderson on Jul 30, 2008 12:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If this works out
I smell Disney movie
by GomesSweetGomes on Jul 30, 2008 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Disconcerting
The ‘never made a competitive offer’ part. If they were dead set on getting a 1B, then I agree that Kotchman has more theoretical trade value than Pena, and we probably wouldn’t have wanted to give up Pena AND a good prospect, but we could have given two good major league players without it hurting us, and that would at least be a competitive offer. I guess it all depends on how much you like Kotchman. I historically hate him, but I can see where some teams would value him highly.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on Jul 30, 2008 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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