Posnanski on the Rays
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 13, 2008 12:03 PM EDT
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I think about that Mets team because although I wasn’t especially baseball aware at the time — being two years old and not having ESPN yet — I’ve got to believe the conventional sportswriting wisdom was that there was no way the Mets could win. They couldn’t hit, they had all that young pitching, the Cubs had so many established great players and so on.
That’s precisely the general vibe I get when it comes to the Rays … I think most people still expect them to fold. They’re young, they’re beat up, the Red Sox have so much talent and experience, the Yankees are the Yankees and so on. But, I don’t know. The Rays have that talented young pitching (and when do they try to change the whole landscape of this pennant race by bringing David Price into the picture?). I’ve been on the Rays since the start. I’m still on them. I think they win it.
Yes, I know the comparisons have been thrown out there before, but it's Posnanski for crying out loud.
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I thought it would be 2009
I am starting to think its 2008 if they can get a bat and Longo &CC Healthy.
Devil Rays World Series 2009
by Japhei on Aug 13, 2008 12:25 PM EDT reply actions
CC is not done,
there’s a very good chance he will be back by the last week of the season. and when we make the playoffs, he will be definitely be back for that.
Really?
I dont know if it is a good chance…sounds like a pretty invasive surgery, and everything would have to go perfectly to get him back at all for the end of the regular season and the playoffs. Personally, I’m more concerned about getting Longoria back, and if Baldelli can do much with the bat.
I like how Pos can use stats
without beating you over the head with them. Also, he mentions anecdotes, writes objectively, and tells a story. Kind of a middle ground between the heroic story tellers of old and the new age statistical writers.
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.
I'd like to model myself after him more.
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 13, 2008 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
You are the 'beating over the head with stats' type
Normally, you approach a topic and provide stats to back up your point of view. I imagine if this doesn’t work, you have a piece of masking tape with the word ‘stats’ written on it which you affix to a crowbar and proceed to bludgeon anyone who disagrees with you helpless with.
Facts never kissed a woman.
Facts never felt the cool summer breeze. Facts never climbed a mountain, never sailed on the ocean, never tasted a magnificantly-aged wine, never experienced true love.
Most importantly, facts never won a World Series.
by Peter Bendix on Aug 13, 2008 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
i don't think Pos and RJ are trying to do the same thing, though
although there is probably room at a site like DRB for “entertainment baseball writing”. we don’t have a lot of posts with funny anecdotes and inside the locker room stories. probably because nobody here is a reporter.
if one of us got into a discussion over the value of Edwin Jackson with Pos, he’d do one of three things
1. say he didn’t know
2. go look up some numbers somewhere
3. make up his own numbers
my blog // calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy // past results do not guarantee future performance
Well get to work
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 13, 2008 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
i love reading Pos' writing. i'd read something he'd written about the life cycles of protazoa
and i respect his open-mindedness for numbers—he’s what I picture Bill James as during his young days. if Pos can turn around more people to being smarter baseball fans, then great.
but let’s remember that writing well with some numbers doesn’t make you a good analyst. we still need the uber-stats-geeks to do the heavy lifting. if i want to know something about valuing baseball players, i’ll go with the uber-geek. when i want to be entertained with baseball drama, i’ll read Pos.
my blog // calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy // past results do not guarantee future performance
There is a distinction, but sometimes
don’t you just wanna read a good story. A lot of times I read articles that tear down old-timers who might have gotten by on “intangibles”. Part of loving your team is having some characters that go beyond stats. Only one team can win it all every year. For the years that you can’t win it all it is nice to not be so serious or cynical and just enjoy the moment.
For the most part I would argue that the World Series winner is not the team with the best statistics, but the team that can get rolling at the right time. Sure you have to be one of the top teams to even be in the hunt, but that doesn’t mean you need the best player at every roster spot.
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 13, 2008 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
yes, i love good stories
and sometimes i love the analytical aspect of figuring out/understanding baseball.
sometimes sabr-people forget that people want entertainment, not just to be right.
and sometimes the entertainment people forget that drama isn’t far from bullshit.
my blog // calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy // past results do not guarantee future performance
I can agree with this
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 13, 2008 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
You mean kind of like
if Will Carroll started a blog about electoral politics?
Not sure how many people realize it’s the same Will Carroll, but he does have one, with a projection system based on Pecota.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
That's not Will Carroll
That’s Nate Silver.
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 13, 2008 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
i'm sure if Obama pulls a hammy Will Carroll would be a guest writer, though
my blog // calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy // past results do not guarantee future performance
i really enjoy
how Silver openly presents all his methodology. it’s like he’s figuring everything out as he’s going along and tweaking the projections appropriately. good stuff.
he also has some charts and graphs that are really well done.
my blog // calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy // past results do not guarantee future performance
OT: Magrane
I just walked into the breakroom here at the office and what do I hear coming from the TV? The sweet, sardonic voice of our own Joe Magrane doing the Olympic baseball coverage.
FYI, USA lost to Korea and Japan lost to Cuba.
The Soul of Baseball is pretty much the best baseball book since Moneyball.
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 13, 2008 2:22 PM EDT reply actions
Maybe we should have a required reading list once the offseason starts
There is so much junk out there that it is nice to hear recommendations from opinions I trust.
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 13, 2008 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
That guy looks too lazy to read
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 13, 2008 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
nope thats bj upton who is too lazy for that
Longo=ROY. Friedman=Executive of the year. Maddon=Manager of the year. BJ UPTON IS NOT LAZY! ! ! Gabe Gross= clutch. David Price is the next big time pitcher.
Me too
Am i the only asshole who hasn’t read moneyball?
he eats his veggies
They do it all with gills!
by LONGO4PREZ08 on Aug 13, 2008 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
You should change your avatar to a picture of Oprah Winfrey if you implement this
Seriously, I’m against it. It’s not going to make enough of an impact to justify the embarassment of being the only sbnation blog to have a book club.
It just makes RJ and SaberTooth look smarter, not the rest of us
God forbid we give these guys yet another ego boost.
Pretty sure that would be rain drops in an empty bucket.
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 13, 2008 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
RJ and STP's Ego = Empty Bucket
Book Club’s returns = rain drops
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 13, 2008 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
There I go saying things as fact again
*I’m just saying that I don’t think doing this would really make us look any smarter.
Clearly the aim of any book club is to make the participants look smarter.
CLEARLY
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 13, 2008 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m just saying that I don’t think doing this would really make us look any smarter.
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 13, 2008 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Up the thread
Nothing embarrassing about being the smartest blog on the sbnation.by rglass44 on Aug 13, 2008 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True enough, but he responded to
Seriously, I’m against it. It’s not going to make enough of an impact to justify the embarassment of being the only sbnation blog to have a book club.
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 13, 2008 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Embarassment is probably too strong of a word to have used
perhaps ‘idea’ is more appropriate. There’s no embarassment about being part of this place.
Not really
Half my life has been spent on computers, and I’m not really that old. I’ve seen enough forum communities to know which ones are smart collectively and which one’s aren’t. The vast majority of people here are at least pretty smart, baseball wise; that’s an incredibly hard thing to find in a forum.
I don't get the impact part?
Does this blog have a mission that I have missed?
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 13, 2008 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the B.J. truth campaign compares favorably to the Crusades.
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 13, 2008 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I can see how a book club would set that back.
Lazy people don’t like to read anything but Menthol Cigarette wrappers and Liner notes (if you know what I’m saying)
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 13, 2008 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
That's debatable
but we gotta have more traffic/comments/posts per day than just about anybody. I’ll stop by some of the other ones and you might not see action for days at a time.
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 13, 2008 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, i've been disappointed.
i thought other sites would be like draysbay, but generally that’s not the case.
anybody know of other good sbnation sites other than LL?
my blog // calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy // past results do not guarantee future performance
Beyond the Box Score is good
You only get a post every 2 weeks or so, and most of the time it’s a cross-post from here, but still…
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 13, 2008 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
The guys that run it...
are know-it-alls that bang you over the head with stats.
by rglass44 on Aug 13, 2008 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
gotta rec this
honesty is a lost art form
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 13, 2008 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Minorleagueball used to be great
Until they changed the posting format, it was great. Once it switched, combined with a sock puppet war, readership probably dropped by 3/4. Still pretty big though.
Camden Chat is alright.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
I support the idea of a book club, but it should only be with books are WAY too much work to read.
And people will just get the wikipedia entry about them to discuss, and everyone will be debating back and forth someone elses wrong opinion.
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 13, 2008 4:43 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
First up, our discussion of Finnegan's Wake
According to “Wikifan112” Joyce is trying to establish the cyclical nature of life through his writting structure.
NO! “JaYhAwKz RULE” says that ultimate destiny and fate are denied to the individual so…..
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 13, 2008 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Reading Faulkner is like reading a series of apostrophies occasionally interrupted by letters.
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 13, 2008 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Billy Beane rubbed his magnificent chest as sweat dripped down his brow.
He gave a boyish grin my way as he unbutton his shirt.
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 13, 2008 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Twins have a 15 game road trip coming up
that may take care of them
I’m hoping WC comes from ALE
Thinking about this from the beginning of the season
This would be rather amazing, considering that a lot of people thought the Rays were going to be good enough to spoil any chance of the wild-card coming out of the ALE.
If we beat hell out of Boston and ALC gets hot it may still happen
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.
by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 13, 2008 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions
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