Posnanski on the Rays

by R.J. Anderson on Aug 13, 2008 12:03 PM EDT Comment 109 comments

Maybe the best sportswriter in America on our little team:

I think about that Mets team because although I wasn’t especially baseball aware at the time — being two years old and not having ESPN yet — I’ve got to believe the conventional sportswriting wisdom was that there was no way the Mets could win. They couldn’t hit, they had all that young pitching, the Cubs had so many established great players and so on.

That’s precisely the general vibe I get when it comes to the Rays … I think most people still expect them to fold. They’re young, they’re beat up, the Red Sox have so much talent and experience, the Yankees are the Yankees and so on. But, I don’t know. The Rays have that talented young pitching (and when do they try to change the whole landscape of this pennant race by bringing David Price into the picture?). I’ve been on the Rays since the start. I’m still on them. I think they win it.

Yes, I know the comparisons have been thrown out there before, but it's Posnanski for crying out loud.

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I thought it would be 2009

I am starting to think its 2008 if they can get a bat and Longo &CC Healthy.

Devil Rays World Series 2009

by Japhei on Aug 13, 2008 12:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

CC is done

by sternfan1 on Aug 13, 2008 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

CC is not done,

there’s a very good chance he will be back by the last week of the season. and when we make the playoffs, he will be definitely be back for that.

by davidsmarch on Aug 13, 2008 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I dont know if it is a good chance…sounds like a pretty invasive surgery, and everything would have to go perfectly to get him back at all for the end of the regular season and the playoffs. Personally, I’m more concerned about getting Longoria back, and if Baldelli can do much with the bat.

by td32 on Aug 13, 2008 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I, for one,

Rec this.

Good stuff. I like Posnanski.

by Vin on Aug 13, 2008 12:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

This would make me feel better if Posnanski could play 3rd

by GenghisJohn on Aug 13, 2008 12:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I second this motion

by Acadien on Aug 13, 2008 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like how Pos can use stats

without beating you over the head with them. Also, he mentions anecdotes, writes objectively, and tells a story. Kind of a middle ground between the heroic story tellers of old and the new age statistical writers.

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 13, 2008 1:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I'd like to model myself after him more.

by R.J. Anderson on Aug 13, 2008 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You are the 'beating over the head with stats' type

Normally, you approach a topic and provide stats to back up your point of view. I imagine if this doesn’t work, you have a piece of masking tape with the word ‘stats’ written on it which you affix to a crowbar and proceed to bludgeon anyone who disagrees with you helpless with.

by kericr on Aug 13, 2008 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like using facts.

by R.J. Anderson on Aug 13, 2008 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So then another piece of tape with 'facts' written on it attached to a morningstar?

by kericr on Aug 13, 2008 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't use tape.

by R.J. Anderson on Aug 13, 2008 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You completely crap all over any ability I might have to use this as a joke.

by kericr on Aug 13, 2008 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Facts never kissed a woman.

Facts never felt the cool summer breeze. Facts never climbed a mountain, never sailed on the ocean, never tasted a magnificantly-aged wine, never experienced true love.

Most importantly, facts never won a World Series.

by Peter Bendix on Aug 13, 2008 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i don't think Pos and RJ are trying to do the same thing, though

although there is probably room at a site like DRB for “entertainment baseball writing”. we don’t have a lot of posts with funny anecdotes and inside the locker room stories. probably because nobody here is a reporter.

if one of us got into a discussion over the value of Edwin Jackson with Pos, he’d do one of three things

1. say he didn’t know
2. go look up some numbers somewhere
3. make up his own numbers

1 is honest but not helpful, #2 is the best idea, and #3 is respectable but not all that helpful except in the sense that it would help Pos’ own understanding of stats. Pos would not bring up some cool story of how Edwin Jackson is like Richard Nixon and then draw a conclusion based on that. story telling and analysis are different.

my blog // calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy // past results do not guarantee future performance

by Sky Kalkman on Aug 13, 2008 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well get to work

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 13, 2008 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i love reading Pos' writing. i'd read something he'd written about the life cycles of protazoa

and i respect his open-mindedness for numbers—he’s what I picture Bill James as during his young days. if Pos can turn around more people to being smarter baseball fans, then great.

but let’s remember that writing well with some numbers doesn’t make you a good analyst. we still need the uber-stats-geeks to do the heavy lifting. if i want to know something about valuing baseball players, i’ll go with the uber-geek. when i want to be entertained with baseball drama, i’ll read Pos.

my blog // calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy // past results do not guarantee future performance

by Sky Kalkman on Aug 13, 2008 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

There is a distinction, but sometimes

don’t you just wanna read a good story. A lot of times I read articles that tear down old-timers who might have gotten by on “intangibles”. Part of loving your team is having some characters that go beyond stats. Only one team can win it all every year. For the years that you can’t win it all it is nice to not be so serious or cynical and just enjoy the moment.

For the most part I would argue that the World Series winner is not the team with the best statistics, but the team that can get rolling at the right time. Sure you have to be one of the top teams to even be in the hunt, but that doesn’t mean you need the best player at every roster spot.

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 13, 2008 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yes, i love good stories

and sometimes i love the analytical aspect of figuring out/understanding baseball.

sometimes sabr-people forget that people want entertainment, not just to be right.

and sometimes the entertainment people forget that drama isn’t far from bullshit.

my blog // calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy // past results do not guarantee future performance

by Sky Kalkman on Aug 13, 2008 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I can agree with this

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 13, 2008 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You mean kind of like

if Will Carroll started a blog about electoral politics?

Not sure how many people realize it’s the same Will Carroll, but he does have one, with a projection system based on Pecota.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Aug 13, 2008 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's not Will Carroll

That’s Nate Silver.

by R.J. Anderson on Aug 13, 2008 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/

by R.J. Anderson on Aug 13, 2008 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i'm sure if Obama pulls a hammy Will Carroll would be a guest writer, though

my blog // calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy // past results do not guarantee future performance

by Sky Kalkman on Aug 13, 2008 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeargh

Yeah.

One of those BPro guys.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Aug 13, 2008 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i really enjoy

how Silver openly presents all his methodology. it’s like he’s figuring everything out as he’s going along and tweaking the projections appropriately. good stuff.

he also has some charts and graphs that are really well done.

my blog // calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy // past results do not guarantee future performance

by Sky Kalkman on Aug 13, 2008 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

OT: Magrane

I just walked into the breakroom here at the office and what do I hear coming from the TV? The sweet, sardonic voice of our own Joe Magrane doing the Olympic baseball coverage.

FYI, USA lost to Korea and Japan lost to Cuba.

by RATW on Aug 13, 2008 2:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The Soul of Baseball is pretty much the best baseball book since Moneyball.

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 13, 2008 2:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Maybe we should have a required reading list once the offseason starts

There is so much junk out there that it is nice to hear recommendations from opinions I trust.

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 13, 2008 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

the only opinion Top Gun & I both trust:

by Acadien on Aug 13, 2008 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That guy looks too lazy to read

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 13, 2008 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He doesn't make love, baby he makes magic

by Cory Alexander on Aug 13, 2008 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

nope thats bj upton who is too lazy for that

Longo=ROY. Friedman=Executive of the year. Maddon=Manager of the year. BJ UPTON IS NOT LAZY! ! ! Gabe Gross= clutch. David Price is the next big time pitcher.

by RaysOfHope on Aug 13, 2008 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, I love this idea.

by R.J. Anderson on Aug 13, 2008 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Me too

Am i the only asshole who hasn’t read moneyball?

by Acadien on Aug 13, 2008 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

he eats his veggies

They do it all with gills!

by LONGO4PREZ08 on Aug 13, 2008 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No

I always thought moneyball was a book on the lottery. The lottery is a tax on people who are bad at math.

by kericr on Aug 13, 2008 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You should change your avatar to a picture of Oprah Winfrey if you implement this

Seriously, I’m against it. It’s not going to make enough of an impact to justify the embarassment of being the only sbnation blog to have a book club.

by kericr on Aug 13, 2008 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

disagree

Nothing embarrassing about being the smartest blog on the sbnation.

by rglass44 on Aug 13, 2008 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Point of Contention: "It’s not going to make enough of an impact"

by kericr on Aug 13, 2008 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It just makes RJ and SaberTooth look smarter, not the rest of us

God forbid we give these guys yet another ego boost.

by kericr on Aug 13, 2008 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pretty sure that would be rain drops in an empty bucket.

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 13, 2008 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't get your anology

by kericr on Aug 13, 2008 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

RJ and STP's Ego = Empty Bucket

Book Club’s returns = rain drops

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 13, 2008 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So you're saying they have no ego...

...and thus completely spoiling my attempt at humor?

by kericr on Aug 13, 2008 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m just saying that doing this wouldn’t really make us look any smarter.

by kericr on Aug 13, 2008 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

There I go saying things as fact again

*I’m just saying that I don’t think doing this would really make us look any smarter.

by kericr on Aug 13, 2008 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Guest lectures would!

by R.J. Anderson on Aug 13, 2008 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

WRITING a book would!

by kericr on Aug 13, 2008 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Clearly the aim of any book club is to make the participants look smarter.

CLEARLY

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 13, 2008 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What's the opposite of a book club?

by R.J. Anderson on Aug 13, 2008 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Anybody who says "Fight Club" loses.

by kericr on Aug 13, 2008 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Joy Luck club?

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 13, 2008 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not the one you should be responding to on that point.

by kericr on Aug 13, 2008 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m just saying that I don’t think doing this would really make us look any smarter.

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 13, 2008 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Up the thread

Nothing embarrassing about being the smartest blog on the sbnation.
by rglass44 on Aug 13, 2008 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

by kericr on Aug 13, 2008 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

True enough, but he responded to

Seriously, I’m against it. It’s not going to make enough of an impact to justify the embarassment of being the only sbnation blog to have a book club.

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 13, 2008 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't get the embarassment part?

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 13, 2008 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Embarassment is probably too strong of a word to have used

perhaps ‘idea’ is more appropriate. There’s no embarassment about being part of this place.

by kericr on Aug 13, 2008 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

/sarcasm.

by R.J. Anderson on Aug 13, 2008 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not really

Half my life has been spent on computers, and I’m not really that old. I’ve seen enough forum communities to know which ones are smart collectively and which one’s aren’t. The vast majority of people here are at least pretty smart, baseball wise; that’s an incredibly hard thing to find in a forum.

by kericr on Aug 13, 2008 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And it's not like there are only 5 or 6 people here that post.

by kericr on Aug 13, 2008 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No, it is like that. Everyone is either my backup account, RJ's or Patricks.

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 13, 2008 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cockytherooster.

by R.J. Anderson on Aug 13, 2008 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What are you talking about?

by AllstotFan40 on Aug 13, 2008 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

B.J. Askew is better than you.

by R.J. Anderson on Aug 13, 2008 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fuck you porch monkey

by AllstotFan40 on Aug 13, 2008 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Your view is askew.

by Vin on Aug 13, 2008 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

All athletes named B.J. own.

by R.J. Anderson on Aug 13, 2008 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

BJ Surhoff

THEORY FAIL

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 13, 2008 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And here I thought everyone here was related to Patrick. Instead, everyone IS Patrick.

by RATW on Aug 13, 2008 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't get the impact part?

Does this blog have a mission that I have missed?

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 13, 2008 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's a misinterpretation

by kericr on Aug 13, 2008 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think the B.J. truth campaign compares favorably to the Crusades.

by R.J. Anderson on Aug 13, 2008 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I can see how a book club would set that back.

Lazy people don’t like to read anything but Menthol Cigarette wrappers and Liner notes (if you know what I’m saying)

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 13, 2008 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'll supply the watermelon flavored kool aid.

by R.J. Anderson on Aug 13, 2008 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fuzzy Zoeler would be pleased.

by kericr on Aug 13, 2008 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I've got the grape flavored pencils

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 13, 2008 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's debatable

but we gotta have more traffic/comments/posts per day than just about anybody. I’ll stop by some of the other ones and you might not see action for days at a time.

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 13, 2008 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, i've been disappointed.

i thought other sites would be like draysbay, but generally that’s not the case.

anybody know of other good sbnation sites other than LL?

my blog // calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy // past results do not guarantee future performance

by Sky Kalkman on Aug 13, 2008 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Beyond the Box Score is good

You only get a post every 2 weeks or so, and most of the time it’s a cross-post from here, but still…

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 13, 2008 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The guys that run it...

are know-it-alls that bang you over the head with stats.

by rglass44 on Aug 13, 2008 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs

gotta rec this

honesty is a lost art form

Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

by Sandy Kazmir on Aug 13, 2008 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

McCovey Chronicles is pretty good.

by R.J. Anderson on Aug 13, 2008 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sounds like Big Black Sci-Fi

by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 13, 2008 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Minorleagueball used to be great

Until they changed the posting format, it was great. Once it switched, combined with a sock puppet war, readership probably dropped by 3/4. Still pretty big though.

Camden Chat is alright.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Aug 13, 2008 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs