Why Edward Jackson Should Be Bullpen Bound
Let me say this first -- both Edwin Jackson and Andy Sonnanstine should be in the rotation through the end of the 2008 regular season. David Price is the only prospect with a chance to be an upgrade over them right now, and it's better for his development to be in the bullpen.
But going into the playoffs (knock on wood) and the 2009 season, I'd much rather see Sonny stick in the rotation and EJax moved to the bullpen (or traded for a right fielder). There are two reasons. One, Sonny is the better pitcher and two, Jackson would gain more by moving to the bullpen.
ERA, as has been discussed around here before, can be misleading. Fielders determine the percentage of balls in play that go for hits, and batters determine what percentage of flyballs go over the wall. There are three main skills that fall directly under pitcher control: K-rate, BB-rate, and GB-rate. Striking out batters is good, because an out has been recorded without a chance of the ball finding a hole in the defense or a path out of the ballpark. Walks are bad because they automatically put runners on base. Groundballs are good, because they can never turn into homeruns.
In fact, a combination of these three skills is a better predictor of future ERA than ERA itself. This predicted ERA is often called xFIP (eXpected Fielding-Independent Pitching). You can also just look at the three skills on their own. How do Jackson and Sonny stack up? Here are eyeballed averages of their 2007 and 2008 performances:
Jackson: 6 K/9, 4 BB/9, 43% GB, 5.00 xFIP
Sonny: 6 K/9, 2 BB/9, 40% GB, 4.35 xFIP
Even though Jackson is a power pitcher, he doesn't strike out any more batters than Sonny -- he just walks more. His 2008 ERA is only lower thanks to Rays fielders turning 5% more batted balls into outs for him versus Sonny. Unless you think Jackson still has significant room to grow as a pitcher (and some do), Sonny is expected to post the better ERA going forward.
(Side note: both pitchers' have posted almost the exact same xFIP in 2007 and 2008, even though their ERAs are drastically lower in 2008. They're not better pitchers this year, they've just had better luck and better fielders behind them.)
On to point number two. On average, pitchers post ERAs a full run lower in the bullpen than in the starting rotation. There are a few reasons for this -- they can throw harder for fewer pitches, they can feature only their best one or two pitches, and they don't need adjust to a hitter the second time through the order. Earlier today, I asked RJ for his scouting report on both starters, without telling him why I was asking (although, he might be smart enough to figure it out.) Tell me which one you think can take advantage of being a reliever more:
Pitcher A throws primarily a fastball and slider with an occasional change-up. His fastball is in the low to mid 90s, but can be cranked up higher.
Pitcher B throws a fastball, cutter, slurve, and changeup. His fastball sits in the high 80s.
I'd rather have Pitcher A (Jackson, in case you didn't figure that out) in the bullpen. He can focus on his two best pitches and throw them harder. Pitcher B wouldn't gain as much of an advantage because four pitches aren't needed and he doesn't have one or two that are significantly better than the rest.
So there you go. Not only is Sonnanstine the better starter (by almost 3/4 of a run per nine innings) but his ERA wouldn't drop as much as Jackson's would by moving to the bullpen. Would you rather have a 4.35 ERA starter and 3.75 ERA reliever or 5.00 ERA starter and a 3.50 reliever? That's what I thought.
When the time comes to drop David Price into the rotation next season, or to move a starter to the bullpen for the 2008 playoffs, it's a no-brainer. Sonnanstine stays and Jackson goes.
This post was written by a member of the DRaysBay community and does not necessarily express the views or opinions of DRaysBay staff.
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Let me end this before it begins:
Flaming comments in this thread will not be tolerated. Sarcasm is one thing, calling someone stupid or a tool is going to result in a ban.
I'm just not sold on Edwin.
People are saying he’s improving, but I look at his K/BB rate and it’s below last year’s, his homerun rate is slightly higher than last year’s, and he’s only giving up slightly less line drives. To his credit he’s made the walks go down a bit, but so did the Ks.
He’s entering arbitration this off-season (thanks Dodgers!) and honestly I just don’t know if he’s going to be THAT much better than Sonnanstine for the next three seasons if at all.
in theory
You’re right – Jackson should be an effective bullpen pitcher.
In reality – he looked even worse in the ‘pen than as a starter when that was his role in the past. Of course, that was a few years ago, and at the time he didn’t look like a MLB pitcher in either role.
I also think you’re right on a couple fronts – if we see the playoffs, I think we’ll see both available in the pen for the first few games. I don’t see us deciding the #4 starter before the series starts (if indeed there is any series), and I don’t see any reason why they shouldn’t both initially be available.
If you believe MLB.com
he may be outfield-bound
Do not think that what is hard for you to master is humanly impossible; but if a thing is humanly possible, consider it to be within your reach.
Edwin Jackson should be (insert team name here) bound
There has to be some left handed bullpen guy or prospect we can get back for him in the off-season. Same goes for Niemann for that matter
Rotation
Kaz
Shields
Price
Garza
Sonny
Pen
Howell
Talbot/Hammel
Salas
LHP through trade
Wheeler
Balfour
I feel like if he was given his fair chance
Niemann could be at least as good as Sonny in the rotation, probably better consider he has greater upside. I’d like to see him get his chance and Sonny sent to a NL team or converted into the right handed version of JPeezey.
Move Jackson this offseason (Price moves to rotation), move Sonny next offseason or trade deadline (Davis moves to rotation), move Kazmir in a couple years (Hellickson mvoes to rotation).
i agree with some of the stuff that you say
i agree move ejax this offseason, since his trade value right now has probably never been higher and if he continues to do good some team might bite the hook and trade for him while his value is at the peak, maybe this offseason winter meetings? move sonny to the pen where he belongs and next year have davis in the rotation and im not sure about the kaz trade since he is the ace and might sign here after his current contract is up, hellickson will find a place somewhere on this team but we dont have to worry about that just yet
longo=ROY. friedman=Executive of the year. Maddon=Manager of the year. Rays=WS champs 08! fiddler cat=best way to show your excitement middle name lamar=success, last name lamar=fail, sorry chuck! pause not!
can someone please explain what Rays fans don't like about Sonnanstine?
His K/BB ratio is better than 3:1
His ERA is right around 4.00
His expected ERA is around 4.25
I understand that Price and Davis will likely eventually be better options. But to say that Sonnanstine belongs in the bullpen or isn’t a decent option as a starter is ridiculous. He’d be a solid third starter in most rotations. A #2 in the bad ones.
my blog // calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy // past results do not guarantee future performance
Some fans rag Sonnanstine
because when he gets hit, he gets hit hard. When Ed Jackson screws up, it is because he can’t find the plate. When Sonnanstine screws up, he tends to leave his fastball or slider up over the plate in a hitter’s nitro zone and it results in a lot of extra base hits. I’d rather he miss out of the zone but he seems to have this aversion to walks and while minor league hitters might fly out on those types of pitches, the big league boys have crushed them.
by Jason Collette on Aug 6, 2008 6:27 AM EDT up reply actions
His HR rate is in the lower tier of starters
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 6, 2008 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
screw you and your data
my blog // calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy // past results do not guarantee future performance
While his HR rate is in the lower tier....
he has the highest SLG% against on the team at .458 – 36 points higher than Jackson’s .422
Garza .369
Kazmir .388
Shields .405
Jackson .422
Sonnanstine .458
pretty large jump there at the end
by Jason Collette on Aug 6, 2008 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Skyking
You answered your own question. Sonny does not have a future as a starting pitcher in Tampa Bay. Edwin Jackson probably does not, but at least he has a chance due to his upside. If you move Jackson to the pen instead of Sonny you effectively eliminate the chance that he moves past the guys that we have or he fends off some of the younger guys. Sonny just doesn’t have the upside.
I prefer Jackson over Sonny because of Jacksons upside and well I’d rather have a few walks than a guy that gets hit harder. As shown Sonny has by far the highest slugging against. That frankly scares me come playoff time. That doesn’t mean Sonny is bad or not a good option. I’m fully aware the numerous shitty starters out there, but thankfully Tampa Bay has some good arms now and for the future.
I think the best move is to trade both of them eventually prior to being truly bullpen bound. You want to get the most you can out of the trade.
honestly i choose ejax over sonny because i have always like ejax since the day we traded for him
when that trade went down in 2005, i think? i was like wow how are the dodgers just going to give up on that big power arm for almost a couple of bullpen arms and a backup catcher! edwin has finally come around on his potential this year and im really proud of the guy, some guys with his talent never figure it out, but it seems like he is, sometimes he is inconsistent but ill take this year for the rest of his career, i would be surprised if the rays dont trade him this offseason, ill miss edwin if they do trade him, as even if his future isnt a starter here i think he could be an amazing setup man or even a closer someday with the type of arm he has, sonny just has bullpen bound writen all over him either when price is brought up or next year.
longo=ROY. friedman=Executive of the year. Maddon=Manager of the year. Rays=WS champs 08! fiddler cat=best way to show your excitement middle name lamar=success, last name lamar=fail, sorry chuck! pause not!
good point, i was thinking back before a couple starts ago
my blog // calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy // past results do not guarantee future performance

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