Rays Acquire Chad Bradford for PTBNL
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 7, 2008 2:43 PM EDT
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PrintBradford is the owner of a funky delivery chronicled in Moneyball. He's not a strikeout pitcher (only 2.90 K/9 this season) however he doesn't walk anyone either and gets an amazing amount of groundballs (nearly 70%) which makes him a nice fit for the Rays infield defense. He's also the owner of a sub-4 FIP and a 2.64 BERA.
Bradford is only 33 and is under contract through next season at 3.5 million.
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Awesome
Exactly the kind of relief specialist we needed. He will probably give up a few more hits on the turf, but at the same time, will get more double plays
who is going to be DFA reyes?
Longo=ROY. Friedman=Executive of the year. Maddon=Manager of the year. Rays=WS champs 08! fiddler cat=best way to show your excitement. BJ UPTON IS NOT LAZY! ! ! Gabe Gross=caption clutch.
Chad Bradford can just look unhittable for long periods of time.
Good lord it would be nice if Salas came up to replace Reyes and we got rid of Miller here. (Obviously Maddon’s BFF Percival isn’t going anywhere).
Funky doesn't begin to describe it.
Nice addition.
look at the elbow, its lower than his left knee
ive always been jealous of teams that have these guys, they never seem to get roughed up or hit outta games. too odd a delievery to tee off on, always seems to have guys guessing.
BOHICA
by Mr. Tonight TB on Aug 7, 2008 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
how did he slip through the dumbass red sux and the yankees
this is just great, i was hopeing that the rays would upgrade some part of their bullpen soon and this definetly is it, btw he is supposed to be joining the rays tomorrow where a roster move will be made.
http://tampabay.rays.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20080807&content_id=3268964&vkey=pr_tb&fext=.jsp&c_id=tb
Longo=ROY. Friedman=Executive of the year. Maddon=Manager of the year. Rays=WS champs 08! fiddler cat=best way to show your excitement. BJ UPTON IS NOT LAZY! ! ! Gabe Gross=caption clutch.
Great Pickup off the waivers
he had/has a post season scoreless streak of 15 innings, not shabby. better than a few of the guys we have now.
BOHICA
Great guy to have
though i wont be seeing him the next time i go to Birdland
by BrendanHarrisLives on Aug 7, 2008 2:57 PM EDT reply actions
I'm not sure what we're giving up for him, but it's damn sure less than was wanted for Fuentes or Marte.
Bradford is superior to both
This is untrue.
Fuentes and Marte are both better than Bradford.
But, given the likely price, I’d rather have Bradford.
In front of this defense
The gap between them becomes much smaller
by GomesSweetGomes on Aug 7, 2008 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
All pitchers get better with good defense.
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 7, 2008 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
SRSLY?
It’s a pretty simple argument: the more reliant a pitcher is on outs made on balls in play (especially groundballs vs. fly balls), the more he is reliant upon his defense. This explains, in passing, why someone like Walter Johnson was still able to be so goddamn dominant despite playing his entire career for a godawful (both offensive and defensive) Washington franchise: he struck people out instead of letting them get a bat on the ball.
I root for the two worst teams in baseball, non-ironically.
Pardon me, Mr. Maddon Bear, it's hard to tell sarcasm in these situations.
There are tons of baseball noobs out there.
I root for the two worst teams in baseball, non-ironically.
The effect is multiplied with the GB%
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 7, 2008 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
His BABIP is .285 this season.
That sounds about right. I don’t know as the Rays defense can cause his BABIP to fall much below .285.
It might be able to. You would have to check the O's defensive stats this season.
Or, much better, actually have watched them all year so you’re familiar with their infield defense. (I’m one of those guys who still doesn’t trust any of the defensive metrics currently available.)
I root for the two worst teams in baseball, non-ironically.
baltimore infield this year...
Roberts, above average
Millar, average
Mora, below average
variety of shortstops, below average
OF: above average (Markakis and Jones are good)
my blog // calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy // past results do not guarantee future performance
True
But GB pitchers even more so than pitchers who rely on the K
by GomesSweetGomes on Aug 7, 2008 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
This would explain Shawn Camp's non-suck season so far
Certainties in Life: Death, Taxes, and Gabe Gross coming through in the ninth
by JMB on Aug 7, 2008 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Camp wasn’t that bad when he was with us. Our defence was awful last year.
by putupyourDUKES on Aug 7, 2008 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
bradford will take advantage of the good defense more than a high-K pitcher
my blog // calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy // past results do not guarantee future performance
You have some mad man love on Bradford.
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 7, 2008 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Bradford is so good.
If he were a little smarter he’d be the best. He can conceal his stuff, he’s got a short delivery distance, and he keeps the ball in the park.
Fuentes and Marte have got to have much higher RAs (I say without looking it up)
by Top Gun Numba 1 on Aug 7, 2008 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Goofy delievery guys are normally pretty good for a few batters. Will be good to have this option for the playoffs, that’s for sure.
by putupyourDUKES on Aug 7, 2008 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Bradford replacing Reyes?
Sounds logical to me
Certainties in Life: Death, Taxes, and Gabe Gross coming through in the ninth
it is either going to be him or trevor miller it seems like
Longo=ROY. Friedman=Executive of the year. Maddon=Manager of the year. Rays=WS champs 08! fiddler cat=best way to show your excitement. BJ UPTON IS NOT LAZY! ! ! Gabe Gross=caption clutch.
Since Bradford is a RHP, replacing Reyes would make more sense than replacing Miller
Certainties in Life: Death, Taxes, and Gabe Gross coming through in the ninth
by JMB on Aug 7, 2008 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
You don’t replace a lefty with a righty. Miller stays on until we call up a lefty.
Price.
by putupyourDUKES on Aug 7, 2008 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
My point exactly
Certainties in Life: Death, Taxes, and Gabe Gross coming through in the ninth
by JMB on Aug 7, 2008 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
i hope that price replaces miller soon
our bullpen will be much better with bradford and price in it
Longo=ROY. Friedman=Executive of the year. Maddon=Manager of the year. Rays=WS champs 08! fiddler cat=best way to show your excitement. BJ UPTON IS NOT LAZY! ! ! Gabe Gross=caption clutch.
I'd like to see them both on the playoff roster
Which is very possible
by GomesSweetGomes on Aug 7, 2008 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
that last pitching spot on the roster is going to be an interesting battle
hammel, niemann and salas are going to be battling it out for that last playoff bullpen spot
Longo=ROY. Friedman=Executive of the year. Maddon=Manager of the year. Rays=WS champs 08! fiddler cat=best way to show your excitement. BJ UPTON IS NOT LAZY! ! ! Gabe Gross=caption clutch.
miller's good if he only faces lefties
my blog // calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy // past results do not guarantee future performance
And he can't...
Miller is facing less righties this year than ever before. It seems that the average lefty specialist faces roughly 60% lefties and that’s what Miller is at.
I understand the desire to have a lefty specialist but Miller just isn’t very good. He walks too many batters and just isn’t that effective. He allows 34% of lefties to reach base which is the same as Bradford (though bradford does allow many more hits).
Stop
Certainties in Life: Death, Taxes, and Gabe Gross coming through in the ninth
by JMB on Aug 7, 2008 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
If he isn’t hustling out of his car, we need to fire gruden and let alstott be the full time back.
by putupyourDUKES on Aug 7, 2008 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
I would have LOVED to have seen an attempt at a logical defense of that ‘BP Hustle’ comment. If players actually focused on the game during BP, then attendance at BP would fall in half.
‘No time for autographs kids….That’s lolly-gagging’
by GomesSweetGomes on Aug 7, 2008 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
We don't know yet
Certainties in Life: Death, Taxes, and Gabe Gross coming through in the ninth
by JMB on Aug 7, 2008 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
ah now i get it
I didn’t realize that was an actual acronym. I thought it was some weird Draysbay thing.
Nope. Player To Be Named Later
Certainties in Life: Death, Taxes, and Gabe Gross coming through in the ninth
by JMB on Aug 7, 2008 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Most likely a 2nd or 3rd tier minor leaguer.
by putupyourDUKES on Aug 7, 2008 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
No idea
Which is why I asked. You abbreviate the names of some people here so at first I thought there was just some popular minor leaguer with like 5 different names.
Wouldn't that likely mean
someone on the 40 man roster? Otherwise, why not just announce it since he would not have to clear waivers? I am not sure about the rule. Can you withhold someone’s name in a trade until after the season and thus avoid the need for waivers?
Or is it possible we give the Orioles a few names from which they pick one? Whatever, it is unlikely to be anyone more than roster filler or a failed prospect.
I'm not sure about specifics
Though withholding a guy until after the season doesn’t seem like it would violate the purpose and spirit of the waiver deadline.
by GomesSweetGomes on Aug 7, 2008 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
The O's and Red Sox did it a couple years ago
with the Adam Stern / Javy Lopez deal, so I know it’s allowed. That was the year Friedman blocked the move from happening right away because he claimed Stern on waivers, so they just waited until the end of the season to complete the transaction.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
A good acquisition at a (presumably) low price.
If anyone here on this board hasn’t seen Chad Bradford pitch before, you’re in for an awesome treat. One of the funkiest, coolest deliveries on the planet. He is the ULTIMATE submariner in baseball, bringing his arm so low as he pitches that his knuckles literally will sometimes scrape the mound.
I root for the two worst teams in baseball, non-ironically.
I have to say I'm surprised he wasn't blocked on a waiver claim by the Sox or Yanks or Twins.
I root for the two worst teams in baseball, non-ironically.
The yankee’s are having roster issues as it is.
by putupyourDUKES on Aug 7, 2008 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed.
I’m really not sure how he got through them.
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 7, 2008 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Bradford has made a career out of his delivery for the same reason that Brad Ziegler is currently so soul-crushingly dominant.
Imagine being a hitter raised your entire life to recognize balls coming at you in a certain fashion – sidearm occasionally, but mostly overhead. That’s how your natural “pitch recognition” has been imprinted through tens of thousands of at-bats’ worth of real and practice experience. Then along comes a guy like Bradford or Ziegler…good luck scanning that one correctly unless you have Bonds-level eye/hand coordination. Or are just a lucky guesser.
I root for the two worst teams in baseball, non-ironically.
It was pretty amazing watching bonds HR off a guy like Mike Meyers, brought in just to take out bonds.
by putupyourDUKES on Aug 7, 2008 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
The real tragedy of Bonds' steroid use....
...is that it has made a lot of casual fans forget the fact that, even before he became a PED cheater, he still was naturally gifted with Top 5-10 all time talent level. His batting eye was (is?) insanely good.
I root for the two worst teams in baseball, non-ironically.
This is false
Bonds was a HOF’er before the PED’s but he was not even close to top 5-10 all time. He was not even on the All Centry Team. I don’t think he was even the top player of the 90’s..Grif was.
by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Aug 7, 2008 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Most Talented or Most POPULAR?
I think those MVP awards he had before he juiced outweigh any honor bestowed by Century 21
by GomesSweetGomes on Aug 7, 2008 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah....remember that Stan Musial had to be added after the fact to the "All-Century Team" because idiot fans didn't vote for him.
Talk about a disgrace. Stan Musial of all people! Therefore I think we’re on extremely solid ground in labeling the All-Century voting a mere popularity contest. And Bonds was NEVER popular (outside of San Francisco). Hell, I hate him myself, even while recognizing his objective mastery.
I root for the two worst teams in baseball, non-ironically.
Pretty sure
they didnt send out a mass company email to all their realitors to vote on that. Was it not the media (I know they hated him) and past players that voted? Com’on, you cant name me 5-10 players better all time than him before his head trippled in size?
by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Aug 7, 2008 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
You are 100% wrong.
The All-Century Team was voted on exclusively by FANS.
And fans, in aggregate, are dumber than a sack of rocks.
I root for the two worst teams in baseball, non-ironically.
not saying I dont agree
just saying, Top 5-10 pre-roids is pushing it.
by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Aug 7, 2008 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Who would be better?
Pre-roids = pre-1998. And at that point I would put (from the modern era) Ruth, Cobb, Mays, Aaron, Mathewson, Johnson, Gehrig, and maybe Musial ahead of Bonds. We can argue about the rankings of these guys (and whether pitchers should be on a separate list than hitters), but still…Bonds was THAT FUCKING GOOD, even without the home runs, once you factor in a normal decline period.
I root for the two worst teams in baseball, non-ironically.
You misread.
I mean that Bonds wasn’t using steroids before 1998. Which isn’t a proven fact, obviously, but all sorts of sources date his use to after the Sosa/McGwire home-run chase and the numbers certainly seem to back that up.
I root for the two worst teams in baseball, non-ironically.
Top 10 OF
and yes, he’s ahead of Griffey for the 90’s.
Whether he’s a top 10 all-time position player if his career ended in 2001 regardless of position is very questionable. If you give him a normal tail to his career, he probably still gets there though.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
Assuming he had a normal decline
He STILL would have wound up with 600+ HR’s, 500 SB’s (maybe more if he hadn’t gotten so big) and 3 MVP awards
by GomesSweetGomes on Aug 7, 2008 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Him not being on that team is a joke
And he was a way better player than Griffey was in the 90’s.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/bondsba01.shtml
http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/griffke02.shtml
There is not one year in the 1990’s where Griffey had a better OPS+
Tools Whore
Sign Bonds!
Bonds should finish ahead of Mantle, Griffey, and Rose.
I root for the two worst teams in baseball, non-ironically.
What list?
You keep talking about Top 10 all-time like there is a place we can reference it. If you are asking which All-Century team member he should replace, then the easy answer would be Griffey
by GomesSweetGomes on Aug 7, 2008 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions
You've been asking for one of these guys for years.
Tools Whore
Sign Bonds!
Yep - I love these types of pitchers
Teams all want lefty specialists but a majority of batters are right-handed. Why not have a righty-specialist?
by Jason Collette on Aug 7, 2008 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
This has always puzzled me too.
Somebody dismissed Bradford as a “righty specialist.” My response is, “and that’s supposed to be a BAD THING?” Given that most hitters are RH, isn’t it a positive friggin’ BOON to have a guy who is death to RH batters?
I root for the two worst teams in baseball, non-ironically.
I read this three times and only then did I understand you meant David Price and not double play.
by R.J. Anderson on Aug 7, 2008 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Speaking of double plays..
Is Bartlett back in the field tonight? Any ideas?
i hope so then rocco is might be back tonight as well
Longo=ROY. Friedman=Executive of the year. Maddon=Manager of the year. Rays=WS champs 08! fiddler cat=best way to show your excitement. BJ UPTON IS NOT LAZY! ! ! Gabe Gross=caption clutch.
I hope they keep him as DH, and not burn him out before september.
by putupyourDUKES on Aug 7, 2008 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Nothing
Assuming they have the Francisco Rodriguez trick up their sleeve ion Ryu
by GomesSweetGomes on Aug 7, 2008 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Huh?
Certainties in Life: Death, Taxes, and Gabe Gross coming through in the ninth
by JMB on Aug 7, 2008 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Ryu is hurt
And has been for months. Assuming he stays hurt, RFO can call him up and immediately place him on the DL. This opens up an injury exception to the 8/31 deadline for playoff rosters. Teams pull this all the time
by GomesSweetGomes on Aug 7, 2008 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Its is the Francisco Rodriguez exception
Because he was added to the ‘02 Angels in the very same way, and dominated in the playoffs.
by GomesSweetGomes on Aug 7, 2008 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Right
http://www.draysbay.com/2008/8/6/587705/our-most-valuable-septembe
It’s ‘sneaky’ but perfectly legal. Follow the links within if you have more ?’s
by GomesSweetGomes on Aug 7, 2008 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Another interesting point:
Given the Orioles’ historic reluctance to trade within the division (Peter Angelos’ directive, natch), I’m surprised that the Rays and O’s were able to work out a deal so quickly. Wonder who the PTBNL is…
I root for the two worst teams in baseball, non-ironically.
I'd like to think hatred of the Yanks and Sox outweighs any such considerations.
Although to be honest, New York is a secondary evil these days. Satan clearly resides in Boston right about now.
I root for the two worst teams in baseball, non-ironically.
Plus
Baltimore isn’t really a small market team. Up until recently they were always among the top 10 in payroll
by GomesSweetGomes on Aug 7, 2008 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Angelos is a quirky guy to say the least
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the fan in him played a role in this acquisiton
by GomesSweetGomes on Aug 7, 2008 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Keep a lookout for one of these outside the Trop
by Albertrayon on Aug 7, 2008 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Sometimes there's a perfect time and place for a certain joke.
This was one of them. Very well played.
I root for the two worst teams in baseball, non-ironically.
Any Greeks in our system?!
Top Josh Paul Pornos- Big Navi Stroking, 2pitchers1cup, BJ to the Balls, Riggans Your Thingans
BELIEVE in 08!
ZOMG!! THE AL IZ OUT OF POZISHUN PLAYERZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Certainties in Life: Death, Taxes, and Gabe Gross coming through in the ninth
by JMB on Aug 7, 2008 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
What about
Half Greeks? Better than being forced to adopt Greek God of Walks, I suppose.
by GomesSweetGomes on Aug 7, 2008 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions
PTBNL
is often a player on the DL (DL’d players can’t be traded) or a recent draft pick (can’t be traded until a year after drafted). there might also be a list of players the Orioles are waiting to pick from or the quality of the player might depend on how well Bradford performs for the Rays.
my blog // calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy // past results do not guarantee future performance
This wouldn't be a situation where a draft pick is PTBNL would it?
Though you’re probably just listing that as a general statement.
nope and yup
my blog // calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy // past results do not guarantee future performance
anyone think this could be a pretty decent player (PBNL)
like a Justin Ruggiano or Mitch Talbot.
I am with the group suprised the Os would trade n the division so I am guessing they are getting something decent back.
Doubt it.
Especially since the Rays are picking up the entire contract.
It could be a guy who has the chance of being a 25th man if all goes well, but probably not better than that.
The O's desperately need someone in the organization that could play SS
Zobrist would have been a great fit but he’s on the 25 man roster now which negates him being part of the PTBNL
damn we could have given them andy cannizaro
Do we even have other SS besides Beckham and Brignac in our minors (not counting Josh Labandiera)
They have 6 months to name the player
So they can wait till the offseason and get around the waiver deadline
by GomesSweetGomes on Aug 7, 2008 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Usually no
Although I’ve heard a couple stories where that’s the case. More often, it’s the other way around when there’s a choice involved – the Rays could have 3 or 4 guys on the table, and the O’s wait until after the season to see which one looks the best to have a longer evaluation period. That’s how the PBTNL in the ARod deal worked.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
I agree
Certainties in Life: Death, Taxes, and Gabe Gross coming through in the ninth
by JMB on Aug 7, 2008 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Tim Dierkes agrees too
Just saw this in the comments of the blurb about Bradford
Prediction: the PTBNL will not be anyone notable and will not play in the Majors.Posted by: Tim Dierkes | August 07, 2008 at 02:16 PM
FAIL
Certainties in Life: Death, Taxes, and Gabe Gross coming through in the ninth
by JMB on Aug 7, 2008 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Well he shouldn't be making preditions have a Posted By line that looks like the one from the heater
In other news: Yes, I fail. I should know who he is since I go to that site a few times a month.
the dude reads EVERYTHING on the web, which is great
but i’ll pass on his analysis
my blog // calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy // past results do not guarantee future performance
PTBNL cannot be anyone on the 25 man roster
It could be someone on the 40 man roster if that person has cleared/clears waivers. The fact that it isn’t anyone yet tells me they can’t make up their mind and the O’s will pick from a list or we are sliding someone through waivers to send back to them off the 40 man roster at some point.
by Jason Collette on Aug 7, 2008 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
-Heater
Finally – for now – Triple-A Durham SS Reid Brignac is headed to the disabled list with a possibly fractured left wrist after being hit by a pitch on Wednesday
9 = 8
Argh
I’m sure some asshat with 20/20 hindsight will use this as proof that he should have been called up.
by GomesSweetGomes on Aug 7, 2008 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
What's his line today?
Certainties in Life: Death, Taxes, and Gabe Gross coming through in the ninth
by JMB on Aug 7, 2008 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Not yet
but if he’s figured out major league hitters, it won’t be long
Certainties in Life: Death, Taxes, and Gabe Gross coming through in the ninth
by JMB on Aug 7, 2008 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Obviously not yet.. That was a statement on his future.
Tools Whore
Sign Bonds!
And FWIW
For all of this talk of the PBTNL being someone on the 40-man, I still think it’s probably Rollins or Cobb at best.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
Sounds like the PBTNL will be nobody special
Andy MacPhail made no bones about that when I talked to him a few minutes ago.“We just thought going forward, it gives us an opportunity for other people in our system who have some upside, to get a look for the rest of ‘08 and ‘09. I think we have that guy (a right-handed setup guy) in our system and I’m going to need to fill some other needs, so I can use the dough.”
Vogt early, Vogt often.
Bradford's a good add
Of course, I thought you should have gotten him as a FA before last season. A position roundly decried at the time here. Something about the inconsistency of relievers. Check his “inconsistency” on his career stats.
Maybe he wouldn’t sign then, but that was also the time period where “Rays FA acquistion” couldn’t cost more than a mil, and more often than not were minor league signings. Also the time when payroll was cut significantly, so budget wasn’t the issue. Reyes was the big “steal” in the pen, then Dohmann. Maybe you do get what you pay for sometimes.
But no biggie. Got him now when you really need and didn’t have to pay him for the intervening time. It is odd that the Sox didn’t block this one, or more, actually try to acquire him themselves. Perhaps the same for the Yanks, though they are tight roster wise and have quite a few RP prospects.
i agree. i can't believe the tigers, yanks, sox, or half the other teams in the AL didn't claim him.
friedman must’ve shit a brick when he found out he was the first owner to claim him
9 = 8
It would have been foolish to sign him
in the off-season. As has been pointed out often, the issue of signing free agents is less one of money than it is one of proper timing. Prior to the season, there was little reason to think Bradford could be important to the Rays. There was little thought of contending in 2008. The fact that the Orioles signed him and Walker and Baez when they should have been focusing on rebuilding was an indictment of their lack of proper planning, much like the Astros trading for Wolf this year. Part of that is the fact that relievers are generally unreliable, but that is only part of the point.
As for “getting what you pay for”, it is very easy to adduce numerous examples where that is definitely not true, in both ways (Gagne, Baez or Balfour, Reyes in 2007)
What the sequence of events proves is just how correct that view is. Once the unexpected happened, there Bradford was, available. And if not him, someone else would have been. Remember there were also all sorts of nonsensical criticisms of the Rays for not overpaying last year and 2 years ago for Riske or Speier or Gagne et al. But they were right, even if Speier was good, because he simply was not worth the commitment at that point in the Rays building cycle.
They seem to be on the right track now
although I understand the real problem is Angelos. I am much more impressed with Huntington in Pittsburgh and have been since he was signed. I think he is emulating the Rays, not just in specifics but in his overall approach to building a contender. He won’t be panicked or intimidated into moves to assuage public opinion and will certainly be in for a lot of criticism in the next few years. I think he will prevail though.
We've been through this before...
but I just completely disagree with your argument here. You can only sign a free agent when they’re available. How would it have hurt the Rays to sign him then? It would have certainly helped the team last season. Anything replacing Stokes would have been good. The money was plenty available – the Rays cut payroll $11 mil heading into ‘07. It would have helped this season – Glover could have been let go covering almost 1/3 his cost, another 1/3 is being paid now.
It also seems to me that signing Gagne was a good thing for Texas last season – he pitched well for them, then got them Gabbard, Engel Beltre, and David Murphy in trade. And most of the O’s signs were bad, but not Bradford. They’re just selling him off for too little at the wrong time.
That Bradford luckily became available at the right moment doesn’t prove your argument. The O’s are selling low here to save a few bucks now to see a prospect (whoever he may be) for an extra 3 weeks. Bradford’s value would have been higher at almost any point in the future unless he isn’t healthy. Your same argument (“if not him, someone else would have been”) would have a good starter available for the Yanks right now – there isn’t. Washburn being too expensive in my estimation. Nor is there another good reliever near as good as Bradford as far as I know.
And my “you get what you pay for” was intended to refer to what you get when you don’t pay much. A la Glover, Dohmann, Andrade, etc. – the Rays Pen acquisitions i prior to ‘07. Reyes turned out good last season, this not so much.
by nyyfaninlaaland on Aug 7, 2008 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
My point remains
that a team still rebuilding should not spend money on mediocre free agents or on relief pitchers even if they are good. They are too fungible and too unpredictable to take up resources or space when other needs are far more important.
I won’t quibble over the specific names as I am sure we can both come up with lists to support our points or disagree over the relative value of players signed cheaply (Dohmann) or for more money (Hawkins). And I do think that ordinarily there are plenty of options available to plug into the bullpen. Whether they work out is another story. For example, a few years ago the Yankees picked up Witasick from SD, a good decision that did not work out. But given that they were in a pennant race, it made sense. It would not make sense for a team anticipating a building year to pick up a middle reliever for $3 million per year over 2 years or so when there are so many other options available.
The issue is not the intrinsic value of the player or the possibility of dealing him later but the timing and the needs of a team at that particular moment. The Orioles may have gotten good work from Bradford, but so what? They still ended up far out of contention and did not (or could not) deal him for anything of value at the trading deadline.
And you will note that in 2008 the Rays did invest more in the bullpen because they figured to be closer to contention than in 2007 when such investment would have been wasted. They extended Wheeler & signed Percival and Miller, all recognizable names. At the same time, they reaped the benefits of lesser deals in 2008 and from earlier with Reyes, Howell and Balfour, and in my view with Dohmann as well.
Incidentally, having Bradford last year would not have helped the Rays at all. They won 66 games. Maybe Bradford would have helped win a few more, but so what? There may have been some ancillary benefits had they dealt him, but at that point it all becomes far too speculative to be useful to consider. In 2007 he would have been a minor footnote in a bad season, like Dave Martinez having a pretty decent year in 1999. In August, 2008 he might be an important part of the fabric of a winning team.
As does my point
that having a player you need and that fits your desired criteria be available when you need them at aceptable terms.
If this were true Tampa would have a right handed batting RF or DH right now.
by nyyfaninlaaland on Aug 8, 2008 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
They probably do.
If they felt they needed a RH DH or RFer, they would have acquired one.
But that is not the point anyway. My point about availability only applies to relievers who are nearly always available. And even more to the point, my argument has to do with timing. For a building team to squander resources on relievers while still looking at contention over a year away is foolish.
In fact, I think the Orioles were foolish not to have dealt Sherill while his value is high. It might be less egregious for KC to hang onto Soria because he really may be useful when they are ready to compete, but even they should have traded him if a team would have yielded up a top flight prospect or a few promising ones. They certainly ought to have found a buyer for Mahay. And Pittsburgh was smart to deal Marte.
By the same token, the Rays were absolutely right to deal Roberto Hernandez years ago as well as Baez, although each had had excellent results. And they were similarly right not to pay for Riske (whom they did pursue but with a clear cap in mind) or Speier or any of the other free agent relievers after the 2006 season.
Paying Bradford last year would have been a waste. Paying him for the remainder of this year and next is a reasonable gamble.
On a purely fan level
I guess it also irks me that the O’s have helped you guys when I’m certain they likely could have done a good deal with the BoSox (wouldn’t have wanted to see that either) Mets, Phillies, Rox or any number of teams before the deadline. But apparently they couldn’t, despite many teams searching for relief help. Though maybe the deal with the Rays is better than I expect.
What makes it worse is apparently the “prospect” they needed to get a look at for the additional 3 + weeks in August is soon-to-be 29 year old Rocky Cherry.
by nyyfaninlaaland on Aug 8, 2008 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
By the end of the month:
Percival – 112 ERA+
Wheeler – 192 ERA+
Howell – 170 ERA+
Balfour – 301 ERA+
Bradford – 176 ERA+
Hammel – 103 ERA+
Price – N/A
Vogt early, Vogt often.
wheeler and percival are not as good as their current ERAs
check out the K/BB rates and FB rates. Wheeler’s a high 3.00 ERA guy and Percival’s in the low 4.00s.
my blog // calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy // past results do not guarantee future performance
Fantastic move
The Rays add a well-above average RP for what presumably will be not too much.
There have only be 28 relievers to post and ERA+ and pitch over forty innings the past three years and Bradford is in that group. Thayer and Salas are good but are not in the same league right now as Bradford.
xFIPs last three years...
2006: 3.20
2007: 4.50
2008: 3.55
He’s a step up from Percival and Wheeler, right around where JP Howell’s skills are at (although JP’s a bit overrated by fans right now).
my blog // calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy // past results do not guarantee future performance
I resent the use of Chad Bradford in an A’s uniform.
Enjoy him—he gave us two good, dependable, quality years. He was one of the guys that didn’t make me want to pull my hair out in ‘07. I wish him and y’all nothing but the best.
"Yesterday I was lying, today I am telling the truth." -- Bob Arum
I always thought chad looked a little pudgy on tv
But his picture makes him look… well, hot. Check out that jawline: the man is sexy.
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