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Reviewing David Price

Well it didn't take too long for David Price, the Rays top prospect, to make his debut. After being promoted from Triple-A Durham prior to this weekend's series Price warmed up yet was not placed into either of yesterday's games in part due to James Shields masterful performance. Today however Edwin Jackson lasted two innings before being yanked leaving Price debuting against the same team he faced in spring training when he faced Wilson Betemit, Shelly Duncan, and Jason Lane and struck each of them out.

Star-divide

Price would get through parts of six innings on 87 pitches. I suppose we should thank Joe Maddon for giving us a glimpse of what to expect from Price and his velocity in a starter's role. 57 of those pitches were fastballs while the other 30 are going to be classified by PitchFx as "cutters" although in reality Price throws a slider and a change-up. Before we jump into the data and graphs I wanted to share my impressions.

The fastball is the beginning and end of most at-bats. In fact Price's first opponent, Xavier Nay, took a swing at his first pitch, a 95 miles per hour heater, and promptly grounded to third baseman Evan Longoria. One pitch and one out, Price's career started effortlessly. Robinson Cano would step into the box and Price would face his first left-handed batter of the day. Price hurled three straight fastballs, including a delightful 96.4 MPH pitch that prompted a swing and miss, as Cano lined out to left fielder Eric Hinske.

Next up was Pudge Rodriguez. Price immediately met the future hall of famer with a 97.2 MPH fastball fouled off. Almost teasingly, Price slung his slider, which registered at 89.5 and broke in to righties, Rodriguez swung and missed, leaving him in an 0-2 count and giving Price the chance to record his first strikeout and inning. Naturally Price went back to his heater and Rodriguez chased it at 95.9.

Two things I noted:
A) How much of his velocity was due to being pumped up?
B) How much of the velocity would remain moving forward?

I'll save you my further attempts at being Len Kasper and skip to some unorganized details.

Price did give up two runs on three hits including a Derek Jeter homerun. I am not sure if that homerun came on a slider or change. He could start in five days and would be at least a league average third starter. The Alex Rodriguez hit will show as a double, but the ball was a blooper that landed near the side right field wall and bounced over. Price will throw his fastball at any time against anyone. The reports and murmurs of control issues will soon be gone; he seemed to be in control of his pitches quite well. I really cannot wait until he takes a full-time starting job.

Okay, now let's get into the fancy stuff, first a fastball velocity chart:

Pricefastball_medium

Overall pretty impressive, although you can certainly see the downward trend beginning at about the 30 fastball mark. Of course we're talking about going from sitting around 96 on average to around 94 and some change. It appears either Price made a conscious (or perhaps unconscious) effort to slow his pitch down. That or it could simply be a misclassification, take your pick. Sustaining good velocity is not going to be a concern for Price.

Price's "cutter" sat at 87.09 on average and topped out at 91.1. We're talking about mostly, if not all, sliders going at 87+. I did a quick search on FanGraphs and immediately noticed Tim Lincecum sitting in similar ranges for his slider and fastball combo. I took Lincecum's seasonal averages to create this:

Pitcher FBv FBhb FBvb SLv SLhb SLvb
Price 94.75 3.44 6.9 87.09 -1.27 2.3
Lincecum 95.06 -3.3 11.04 85.01 1.92 1.69

The two distinct differences, outside of Lincecum's fastball having more "up-break" are their arms of choice (which also explains why Lincecum's fastball horizontal break is "negative" or inside to righties and why his slider is "positive" or away from righties) and the fact that Price will not be competing for the National League Cy Young anytime soon.

References

Josh Kalk's player cards.

Brooksbaseball.net

 

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Or this year

Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.

by P Brady on Sep 14, 2008 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe

Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.

by P Brady on Sep 14, 2008 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Edwin's statline has been especially bad two of his last three starts

Both against the Yankees, with a 7 inning start at Boston sandwiched in-between where he basically lost the game in the first inning. I’d imagine Maddon will do what most teams do and go to a 3-man rotation (with Kaz, Shields, and Garza being the three) once the playoffs get here, but if he’s got eyes set on a division title still, he should either yank E-Jax from the rotation and ride other teams lack of knowledge of Price, or just go to a 4-man rotation.

by kericr on Sep 15, 2008 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was at the game

The loss sucked especially since the Sox won but I am SO happy I went, a man only has 1 debut(sorry for the John Maddon line) and even though I was was wayyyyyy up there, I heard him pounding Navarro’s glove.

No one was able to get Jeter out and he got the HR off Price but then Price made him hit into a double play.

God, he looked great. I know its bad to mess with the rotation at this point but Price needs to take Jackson’s spot. Let Jackson pitch game 2 of that double header

by joeybw on Sep 14, 2008 7:50 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

why is it bad to mess with the rotation?

if there’s significant reason to believe Option A is better than Option B, should you go with Option B just because it’s been around for a while?

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Sep 14, 2008 8:19 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I have no idea.

I do know Price is > Jackson and I would be all for that switch immediately. I sincerely hope the Rays do not consider tenure in this process.

by R.J. Anderson on Sep 14, 2008 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am hoping their first concern is the division

And Price being in that rotation spot gives them a better chance

by joeybw on Sep 14, 2008 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If they still intend Price to pitch one of the doubleheader games on the 23rd, then a switch right now doesn’t really make sense. If the order doesn’t change, Jackson only has two starts remaining anyways (MIN, @ BAL).

by RATW on Sep 14, 2008 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Depending on the outcome of the series against the Sox at the Trop, I may or may not agree

If Jackson pitching is a guaranteed loss, then the Rays can’t afford to simply hand over two games with Boston this close. I believe P Brady said it best a week or so ago when procaiming that E-Jax was regressing at the worst possible time; it was supposed to be a joke but it’s looking a little more prophetic at this point.

I’d also like someone to send Aubrey Huff a Giant Box of Porn®. Hopefully that’ll keep him out of the series.

by kericr on Sep 15, 2008 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's fair.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Sep 14, 2008 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And what I do know is

Price>Sonny and I would be all for that switch immediately. Jackson needs to stay in the rotation to increase his value at the end of the year.

by dannythegreat on Sep 14, 2008 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So still in the minority with thinking Sonny is better I guess

Kazmir – Shields – Garza – Price – Sonny is the rotation we should go with rest of the way

by joeybw on Sep 14, 2008 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i agree with you joeybw

who gives a crap about ejax’s value this offseason, i dont really think all too much about the offseason yet, because alot of stuff comes out of no where during it and with that rotation it gives up the best chance to win every game, ya sonny isnt amazing but he gets the job done, ejax has the tools to be dominant but he cant prove it consistently, and also would you rather see the rays lose a game in the standings or improve ejax’s “value”? remember the rays are only up 1 game in the standings right now, not clinched already like the angels

Evan Longoria=ROY. Andrew Friedman=Executive of the year. Joe Maddon=Manager of the year. David Price= the next best pitcher TB Rays fan 2002-the day i die!

by RaysOfHope on Sep 14, 2008 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i'm with you

2007 ERA (for those who care about that sort of thing)
Sonny: 4.47
Jackson: 4.33

Sonny has more strikeouts, fewer walks, and fewer homeruns allowed.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Sep 16, 2008 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure.

If you really want to put trade value over winning.

by R.J. Anderson on Sep 14, 2008 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

what? i think ill take winning over trade value

Evan Longoria=ROY. Andrew Friedman=Executive of the year. Joe Maddon=Manager of the year. David Price= the next best pitcher TB Rays fan 2002-the day i die!

by RaysOfHope on Sep 14, 2008 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

NO priority 1 is OBVIOUSLY winning...to increase the lead we'd make off of boston...games we would need to win the division...to help us...win (now)

either way i just hope they find a way to get rid of him this offseason

"It felt good to be out there, I wasn't nervous anymore, and I felt like I belonged out there." -David Price after his ML debut.

by RaysOfHope on Sep 14, 2008 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

NO PRIORITIE WON IS OBVIOUSLY TRADE VALU BECUZ WE NEED TO STOCKPILE OUR TALENTZ

we’re supposed to be good for like the next 8 years, we won’t do that by ‘only’ making the playoffs then spending all that hard earned money on free agent busts.

by kericr on Sep 15, 2008 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Most of you (except RATW) are missing the obvious.

Price has 1 start remaining. Jackson has 2. Switching them wouldn’t really matter at this late in the game. Also Jackson could always be skipped at the end if we needed one of our big guns to go on 3 days rest to help us win the division. We would be better off (as a team) to have Price work out of the pen as much as he can so he can get used to the role come playoff time.

It is safe to say we are going with a 3 man playoff rotation with Sonny possibly pitching a game if we get way up in a series.

by matthan on Sep 15, 2008 1:03 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

And while everyone knows that Price > EJ long run

There is no guarantee that Price will outperform Jackson over a span of one start especially since we are talking Prices first start ever.

I agree Jackson’s trade value shouldn’t matter much. It is probably priority #10 at this point. I just think the team is better served sticking with what we have. If this was a month ago I’d be all for Price being in the rotation. At this we are just talking 1 more start for David and 1 less for Jackson.

by matthan on Sep 15, 2008 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What was most impressive...

He went seven batters before throwing a ball to a batter that disn’t already have two strikes on them. Seriously… no balls except on 0-2 counts? THAT is very impressive

If you're not having fun, what are you having? There's already WAAAY too many serious moments in life.

by Manny Stiles on Sep 15, 2008 3:07 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

He pitched pretty well.

If he repeats his performence then I’ll say give him a chance to be a starter.

by Penaholic on Sep 15, 2008 5:10 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'd still expect a few bumps in the road for Price

He didn’t tear up AAA – small sample size notwithstanding. Now Jax will likely have the same bumps, but overall his performance this year has been fine. He’s earned his spot, and likely won’t start in the playoffs anyway. Given that latter fact, it wouldn’t be a bad thing to move Jax to the pen so he can adjust to the role for postseason. However, I don’t think you can say that Price is a guaranteed improvement in the short run. Giving him some experience is valuable – but competing for the division is as high a priority.

As you can see, I’m of 2 minds on this one. But a big issue is Price’s 2009 innings availability – a la Joba. He’s at 125 IP – likely won’t get beyond 140 max. Confining him to 2008 + 30 doesn’t make him a full season starter, and shouldn’t. So I’d keep Jax into 2009 if I were you, and start Price in AAA to control his innings load early. Have to carry or lose Niemann, so have he and Jax take Hamell’s spot and #5 at outset. Bring Price in when innings meet targets, injury strikes, etc. Likely the other 2 or injury to others will make the decision for you. Good pitching depth is key – you’re not likely to get by with less than 10 starts from outside the top 5 starters again next year. And there’s always a market for young SP’s.

by nyyfaninlaaland on Sep 15, 2008 9:03 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Hey BJ

Way to post the same thing on both your blogs.

by rglass44 on Sep 16, 2008 1:07 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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