Arbitration Thread

by Tommy Rancel on Jan 20, 2009 8:13 AM EST

Another update from Navarro's agent:

"We were close, but we couldn't get the deal done,'' said Navarro's agent, Kendall Almerico. "I'm willing to continue to talk until the hearing, but that requires the Rays wanting to talk. My expectation is that we will be willing to be listen and they will not be willing to talk.''

Assuming team policy doesn't suddenly change, the Rays will head to arbitration hearings with Navarro and Aybar.

Update: Heater

Jason Bartlett signs for ~1.98 million.

Update: Heater

Rays officials are continuing negotiations with their three arbitration eligible players right up to their self-imposed deadline in an effort to avoid going to a hearing.

"We've made some pretty signficiant progress,'' the agent for C Dioner Navarro, Kendall Almerico, said a few minutes ago.

R.J. explained the arbitration process below and today is the "deadline" for the Rays and their players to come to an agreement. It's not an official deadline, but one set by the Rays front office. If they do not come to terms with an arbitration eligible players by noon today, they will break off talks and wait for a hearing in February. The Rays have three players "unsigned": Jason Bartlett, Willy Aybar and Dioner Navarro. As of last night all three looked to be headed to arbitration. We will update this thread until the deadline. Here is the latest from the Heater:

“The latest update is that I think we’re done talking,’’ Kendall Almerico, Navarro’s agent, said. “Right now, it’s not going to happen and it looks like we’re going to a hearing. We’re working at it but it looks like it’s not going to happen.’’

Bartlett said Monday night he hadn't heard anything about a settlement yet; Aybar's representatives did not return an e-mail.

Rays officials said they did not expect any news Monday night; it's possible talks could resume in the morning.

"Our goal is always to avoid a hearing with each player, and we will continue working toward that effort until we file numbers," senior vice president Gerry Hunsicker said about 9 p.m. "Once we file, however, our policy is to let an arbitrator decide the case.''

As R.J. noted, Friedman has only had two arbitrations and won both of them against Josh Paul. I'd love to listen in on the Jason Bartlett hearing.

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Comments

My gut feeling is

Navi and Aybar settle today. Navi’s agent is using the age old ploy i’ve heard for years

Barty might be looking long term, and i don’t see the rays doing that

by Raymondo on Jan 20, 2009 8:32 AM EST reply actions

I hope Topkin's stupidity doesn't land Bartlett a lot of money.

by Erik Hahmann on Jan 20, 2009 9:06 AM EST reply actions

How much

do you think Bartlett will get? Any ballpark guesses?

by iambored on Jan 20, 2009 9:38 AM EST reply actions

He'll ask for more than he'll get thats for sure.

by Tommy Rancel on Jan 20, 2009 10:01 AM EST up reply actions

Bartlett's a superior fielder.

But it’s not like the arbitrators know what wOBA is. Basically, Bartlett’s case is going to be printing out Topkin’s column and using all those meaningless numbers (like W-L record WAWY).

by R.J. Anderson on Jan 20, 2009 10:04 AM EST up reply actions

W-L are not meaningless. They are all that counts

by Tommy Rancel on Jan 20, 2009 10:11 AM EST up reply actions

He's going to print out 1,000 copies of the column, tape them all over his body, and walk into court.

by Erik Hahmann on Jan 20, 2009 10:31 AM EST up reply actions

Friedman's argument

http://www.firejoemorgan.com/2008/09/its-cool.html

by Tommy Rancel on Jan 20, 2009 10:38 AM EST up reply actions

Bartlett's agent:

YOU AREN’T PAYING ATTENTION AND YOU AREN’T EVEN EXPERTS.

by R.J. Anderson on Jan 20, 2009 10:41 AM EST up reply actions

As he parades Bartlett around the courtroom in a three piece suit made entirely of Topkin's article.

by Erik Hahmann on Jan 20, 2009 11:09 AM EST up reply actions

I wouldn't count on it

Teams USUALLY win the arbitration cases, but not always, and generally the arbitrators aren’t going to be well-versed in advanced metrics and the like. They’re more likely to just look at the basic slash line and rule in favor of whoever’s closer to another player at the same position in the same year of arbitration and adjust for inflation. Eckstein received $2.15M his first year of arbitration about 4 years ago. Juan Uribe also received $2.15M about 3 years ago. Khalil Greene received $2.25M a couple years ago. Felipe Lopez received $2.7M (coming off his good season) a few years ago. Julio Lugo got about $3.25M in his second year of arb coming off a similar season ($1.75M his first year coming off a year when he was a part-time player). I’d expect Bartlett to get something in the $2.4M range.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Jan 20, 2009 10:38 AM EST up reply actions

Batlett's fielding percentage and OPS suck.

Frankly I’m not even sure how he’s in the majors.

by R.J. Anderson on Jan 20, 2009 10:44 AM EST up reply actions

Of the qualified SS

He finished 16/18 in fld%. In terms of OPS for SS with 450 or more PAs he is 19/22. Friedman is going to have to dumb down for his audience to double his dollars.

by Tommy Rancel on Jan 20, 2009 10:53 AM EST up reply actions

Only hit .260 in late and close situations.

Too unclutch. Why the hell do we even employ this schmuck?

by R.J. Anderson on Jan 20, 2009 10:59 AM EST up reply actions

.214 in the World Series.

Way to show up in the most important games MVP

by Tommy Rancel on Jan 20, 2009 11:12 AM EST up reply actions

Scrappiness!

by steve-o1285 on Jan 20, 2009 2:17 PM EST up reply actions

Don't bring Pedroia in to this.

by twenty5psi on Jan 20, 2009 2:28 PM EST up reply actions

As much as i don't care for Boston...

It’s going to be interesting with Papelbon and his first year of Arb. They’re making a big deal of “Theo has NEVER gone to arbitration with a player!” but from what i’ve read, Papelbon is expecting a huge increase in salary, and not just on the level of the Closers…..somewhere around starter money, since HE made the “sacrifice” to go from starter to closer.

Could be something that, by the time he’s eligible for FA, things could be ugly….which would lead to a pretty nasty divorce between the two.

The only one i could see the Rays losing would be Navarro…just because he’s come along a LOT more since his ’07 season.

by chancedj on Jan 20, 2009 9:39 AM EST reply actions

Plus, that fridge of his is probably pretty expensive to stock.

by kericr on Jan 20, 2009 10:26 AM EST up reply actions

“Could be something that, by the time he’s eligible for FA, things could be ugly….which would lead to a pretty nasty divorce between the two.”

Money is a great healer. Boston has it – they can afford to skimp out at first and pay big down the road, especially for a player who’s shown little indication that he’s willing to give a hometown discount. The Rays don’t have that luxury.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Jan 20, 2009 10:40 AM EST up reply actions

I think this is a bad idea

Maybe you end up paying a little less if you go to arbitration, but you lose the benefit of the doubt from your players when it comes to renegotiating later on, and it can create a bit of a rift in the clubhouse. I’m sure Bartlett won’t like to hear it coming out of a team rep’s mouth that his defense wasn’t actually that good last year, or that Navarro won’t like hearing that the team thinks he could stand to shed a few pounds, even if they know it’s true. Hearing it straight from the horse’s mouth can really obliterate any financial benefit you get in the short term.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Jan 20, 2009 10:28 AM EST reply actions

Tact is a wonderful weapon

Slick suits are full of it. I anticipate RFO is smart enough to not throw mud around when all they need to do is submit their bid in writing with emotionless facts supporting. I agree, that it can be a very divisive event, but if handled correctly the player should not feel taken advantage of. The arbitrator is not an expert, clearly, but if you look at past cases it seems like they get a lot more right. I would say they are as successful as humans calling balls and strikes so why come down on one and leave the other untouched. This is a reply to you, Brick, but also sums up my feelings of everyone else’s comments.

Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.

~George Costanza~

by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 20, 2009 11:19 AM EST up reply actions