Farewell Rocco
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 7, 2009 9:30 PM EST
261 comments
It appears we've seen the last of Rocco Baldelli in a Rays hat and uni. I think it goes without saying that I and every other Rays fan hopes Rocco does well wherever he lands, but man, this is about as surreal as it can get.
Things just didn't work out with Rocco and the Rays at no fault to either side. Rocco's body may have betrayed him over the years, but as we saw over the years his heart, spirit, and mind were still strong and well. Rocco went through more than most of us could endure, and did so without ever lashing out as if he were some innocent victim at the hands of fate.
When news about a potential mitochondrial disorder broke last off-season many people, including myself, assumed he would never play another game as a Ray. In the minors, his performance was not awe-inspiring, but upon reaching the majors, he proved his bat still had some power. His body was still limiting his game, but Rocco had accomplished more by simply making it back to the majors than any baseball performance could have done.
The comparisons to Josh Hamilton are going to be numerous. Those are complete and utterly ridiculous. The two cases are nothing alike, and to compare Baldelli's situation to Hamilton's is being reckless and disregarding Rocco's upstanding character. Rocco didn't choose his body just like he didn't choose to be compared to Joe DiMaggio, yet never did Rocco come across as someone full of self-pity, never did Rocco try and make himself the object of sympathy, and frankly that tells me a lot more about his character and personality than his baseball statistics.
At the same time, the Rays had to move on, and so did Rocco. The additions of Pat Burrell and Matt Joyce designated Rocco as "odd man out" and frankly, that is the smart baseball maneuver. Andrew Friedman is one of the best general managers in baseball, and part of that involves separating emotions and off the field matters from his on the field maneuvers -- with one exception, that being the Elijah Dukes deal. I suppose you could call that his Jeremy Giambi trade.
Rocco still wants to play, but as a contender with limited roster spots, the Rays simply could not bank on his health. Yes, it will sting if Rocco wins a ring with his new team before the Rays do. Hindsight will kick in if Rocco defeats his greatest enemy and becomes a full-time player again, but right here, right now, this is the best move for both sides.
Even still, Rays baseball won't seem right without Rocco, and that's a testament to Rocco the person and the player.
Good luck Rocco.
Ed note: this was written prior to the Red Sox being verified as his new destination.
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Applause and hat tip to the comment
couldn’t agree more. He’ll be missed.
Cannons... fire them.
www.BucEm.com - SBNation's home for discussion of all things regarding the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
by Craig T on Jan 7, 2009 9:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Oh come on
I wish him all the luck in the world but I am not sure how much I can cheer for him in that jersey.
Evan Longoria and David Price - the fight for my heart
by joeybw on Jan 7, 2009 9:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
You don't have to cheer for him...
…just not against him?
This is a shame but I think most of us saw it coming. It was nice to see Rocco contribute down the stretch and have some big moments in the playoffs.
by Lurch's Lobbyists on Jan 7, 2009 9:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I really hope when he has his first AB at the Trop in a Sox uniform that he does not get booed and labled a trator.
I’m sure the trator comments will pour into The Heater.
Rays 2009 Slogan: "Come back with your shield or on it"
by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Jan 8, 2009 7:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you've got it backwards
You’re going to see a lot of comments about how heartless and/or cheap the organization is.
by kericr on Jan 8, 2009 9:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
same thoughts, a joke as well.
Rays 2009 Slogan: "Come back with your shield or on it"
by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Jan 8, 2009 9:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Red Sox :|
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
by P Brady on Jan 7, 2009 9:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I hate seeing him a Red Sox
and if he’s healthy, he’ll pepper that wall
Too bad, he’d have been agreat platoon in RF and back-up in CF
by Raymondo on Jan 7, 2009 9:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Eh, I think Nando can do the same
Good platoon in RF, backup at all 3 OF spots.
Evan Longoria and David Price - the fight for my heart
by joeybw on Jan 7, 2009 9:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Where he was last year?
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
by P Brady on Jan 7, 2009 10:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Playing for an injured Longo and Floyd?
by Raymondo on Jan 7, 2009 10:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking more like super sub?
3B, 2B, 1B, DH and very possibly OF
Evan Longoria and David Price - the fight for my heart
by joeybw on Jan 7, 2009 10:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
As long as he's not beating his wife I don't care if he rides the pine
Dude is ready to play at a moments notice. SH with good power and a steady glove, yeah who needs that?
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 7, 2009 10:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Brett Myers does not like this comment.
Rays 2009 Slogan: "Come back with your shield or on it"
by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Jan 8, 2009 7:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Benedict Baldelli
Damn him…..to Boston? I don’t have the heart to boo him because he was one of my favorites to watch when he played, but I get temporary Tourette’s when I see someone in a Red Sox shirt or jersey
by Jason Collette on Jan 7, 2009 10:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
i hear that
Evan Longoria and David Price - the fight for my heart
by joeybw on Jan 7, 2009 10:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bye Roc thanks for all the memories
Don’t let the haters get you down. You didn’t have a spot here and know that I will never boo you.
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 7, 2009 10:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Ugh.
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2009/01/baldelli_close.html
Smoltz to Boston too for 1/5.5.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 7, 2009 10:13 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Can't throw a ball until late May, 40 YO, coming off 2nd TJ,
Is Smoltz something we fear? I know the guy is a bulldog, but I’d rather watch Curt Schilling talk about how good he is than worry about Smoltzy at this point
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 7, 2009 10:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Low-cost, potentially good reward.
I don’t think we really fear anything the Yanks/Sox can do, unless it’s acquiring Pujols.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 7, 2009 10:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think this is the biggest arena where payroll restrictions come into play
5.5M is something we could not gamble with even if the reward is great, whereas Boston can make this play and if it works out great, and if not so what.
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 7, 2009 10:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cliff Floyd was a mild risk, no?
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 7, 2009 10:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What did he make last year?
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 7, 2009 10:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
2.75 mil.
I thought it was higher. Nevermind.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 7, 2009 10:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't mean that to sound condescending
We go out and add a guy to a great contract of 7 & 9M, he steps in as our third highest paid player, and now we are robbed of our liquidity. The Sox don’t have to play the this or that game as Smoltz doesn’t even have to touch a ball next year. He is just an insurance policy for an overworked Lester, unlucky Matsuzaka, or injured Beckett and a damn fine one at that.
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 7, 2009 10:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I know what you mean.
Plus, don’t forget they signed Penny and have three pitching prospects sitting around too.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 7, 2009 10:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
From what I understand sitting around is not exactly a great way to live up to your potential
If this was both barrels though, they could have done a lot worse.
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 7, 2009 10:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
From what I understand sitting around is not exactly a great way to live up to your potential
If only Delmon would’ve known this sooner.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 7, 2009 10:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
size be damned
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 7, 2009 10:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I just threw-up in my mouth at Pujols with the Sox.
Rays 2009 Slogan: "Come back with your shield or on it"
by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Jan 8, 2009 7:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Smoltz too?
Two of my favorite players in one of the most putrid organizations in baseball. I think I’m going to go throw up.
by floridaroar on Jan 7, 2009 10:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He's going home and into a good situation.
Sure it sucks that they’re our rivals, but otherwise good for him.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 7, 2009 10:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
good situation?
As far as hometown? I would have thought he would have went somewhere that could give him more AB’s to prove his health. I wonder how many AB’s he can get in that lineup.
Rays 2009 Slogan: "Come back with your shield or on it"
by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Jan 8, 2009 7:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not many, that's why it's good.
Expectations for playing time are low.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 8, 2009 11:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
gotcha.
I was under the impression he wanted to go somewhere to get as many AB’s as possible to prove his health thus leading to a bigger deal.
Rays 2009 Slogan: "Come back with your shield or on it"
by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Jan 8, 2009 2:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Phenomenal human being
I wish you nothing but the best. Class act through and through. Inspirational.
Joe
by joedobr on Jan 7, 2009 10:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Like I said on OTM
I’ve always had a big mancrush on Baldelli, I absolutely LOVE his swing. He’s being replaced by Sonnanstine as the player I’d like to steal from the Rays roster.
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Jan 7, 2009 10:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
One of this days, you're gonna wake up and read a headline that says
“Andy Sonnanstine traded to the Red Sox for Julio Lugo and David Pauley”. Just wait. :)
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Jan 7, 2009 10:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Of, if you don't know how bad Pauley is
He’s pretty bad.
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Jan 7, 2009 10:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Is Andrew Friedman dead or simply mentally incapacitated in this alternate reality?
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 7, 2009 10:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He would have been briefly replaced by Matt Millen
Who would also draft a WR in the first round.
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Jan 7, 2009 10:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why does Chuck Hernandez always go for former Rays?
Woonsocket Rocket!
by raysbball on Jan 7, 2009 10:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
With the first overall pick the Lions select
Michael Crabtree, WR, Texas Tech
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 7, 2009 10:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not to be off topic but...
Crabtree is staying if Leach stays.
Woonsocket Rocket!
by raysbball on Jan 7, 2009 10:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and with the 20th overall pick the lions select....
WR Hareem Nicks
oh being a lions fans sucks so much right now! i am one still!
TB Rays in 09!!!
by RaysOfHope on Jan 7, 2009 11:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Me too.
I’m a sadist.
It’ll be that much sweeter when they finally turn it around and win a Super Bowl.
by floridaroar on Jan 8, 2009 12:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How did that work out for you?
Grossly overspending on Lugo so we would not be able to re-sign him I mean.
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 7, 2009 10:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Lugo is a funny dude
He’s a funny dude, and he loves the fans. So much he feels the need to throw them the ball in every single play.
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Jan 7, 2009 10:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You realize our GM offered him a remarkably similar contract right?
Tools Whore
Sign Bonds!
by Tyler on Jan 7, 2009 10:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We don't do no-trade clauses.
Look how that worked out.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 7, 2009 10:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Less money
IIRC it was something like 4/24, they went with 4/32, I’m gonna have to look it up now
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 7, 2009 10:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
4/36 is what they signed him for
Check out the last line for a KLawism.
I think we offered 3/24, but I can’t find any corroboration. That sounds about right.
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 7, 2009 10:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty sure we offered 4/36
At worst we offered 3/27.
I can’t find anything to confirm this either.
Tools Whore
Sign Bonds!
by Tyler on Jan 7, 2009 10:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
R.J.'s worst fear;
“three way trade between Oakland, Tampa, and Boston. The rays are giving Sonanstine and the newly acquired Mark Ellis in return for Mike Timlin.”
Woonsocket Rocket!
by raysbball on Jan 7, 2009 10:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like Timlin when he comes in we win games'
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 7, 2009 10:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Baldelli to the Red Sox is like the Pope converting to Islam.
by floridaroar on Jan 7, 2009 10:26 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I got some good news
Yankees refuse to trade Damon because…….they need him to play CF!
Evan Longoria and David Price - the fight for my heart
by joeybw on Jan 7, 2009 10:35 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd for laughter
Woonsocket Rocket!
by raysbball on Jan 7, 2009 10:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cue the
throws like my kid sister jokes
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 7, 2009 10:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry...
But I won’t cheer for Baldelli. I wish the same fate on him that I do for every Red Sox player. He’s now the enemy and though I wish him good health, I hope he hits .125. If he wanted me to still like him he could have signed with the Pirates.
www.citadel-insurance.com
by SeanDubbs on Jan 7, 2009 10:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
This isn't the NFL man
You don’t have to be an asshole to follow the game.
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 7, 2009 10:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
So fucking true.
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Jan 7, 2009 10:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I thing your actually laughing that you have to go another year with Timlin, and no riverdances from a drunk Pap.
"Don't test the cannon"! screamed Matt Garza after b.J. Upton throws another failed attempt of scoring by a tag-up!
by raysbball on Jan 7, 2009 10:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm actually laughing because that regarding the NFL was funny
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Jan 7, 2009 10:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Those people are savages
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 7, 2009 10:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It could be South American Soccer.
www.citadel-insurance.com
by SeanDubbs on Jan 7, 2009 10:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I live in Argentina
There’s not more stupid than the local soccer. All the players seem to have a single goal: Flop and pretend to be hurt.
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Jan 7, 2009 10:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Have you ever heard of the Carlos Tevez story?
"Don't test the cannon"! screamed Matt Garza after b.J. Upton throws another failed attempt of scoring by a tag-up!
by raysbball on Jan 7, 2009 10:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
He’s a bad singer, if that’s what you mean.
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Jan 7, 2009 10:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The soccer player who when he was little got jumped in the ghetto then they put boiling water in his eyes
"Don't test the cannon"! screamed Matt Garza after b.J. Upton throws another failed attempt of scoring by a tag-up!
by raysbball on Jan 7, 2009 10:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I know
That doesn’t make him any less of a bad singer.
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Jan 7, 2009 10:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He is one of the best soccer players, link this singing.
"Don't test the cannon"! screamed Matt Garza after b.J. Upton throws another failed attempt of scoring by a tag-up!
by raysbball on Jan 7, 2009 10:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Link fail
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgVeKgadtsc
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Jan 7, 2009 11:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you! haha
"Don't test the cannon"! screamed Matt Garza after b.J. Upton throws another failed attempt of scoring by a tag-up!
by raysbball on Jan 7, 2009 11:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Are you trying to belittle all Bucs fans?
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 7, 2009 10:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That is Rglass' job.
Top Josh Paul Pornos- Big Navi Stroking, 2pitchers1cup, BJ to the Balls, Riggans Your Thingans
by SRQman on Jan 7, 2009 10:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm a Bucs fan and am usually embarassed when I watch a game at a bar
Ray Jay is the only stadium of any kind (and I’ve been to a lot) where I have seen more than 5 people dipping in the stands. Including a female.
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 7, 2009 10:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Random
How do you hide your link in other words
"Don't test the cannon"! screamed Matt Garza after b.J. Upton throws another failed attempt of scoring by a tag-up!
by raysbball on Jan 7, 2009 10:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yet you are not ashamed when you fantasize about Karhl?
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
by P Brady on Jan 7, 2009 10:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Her/his writing is usually pretty good
I would like to see her tear open a lobster claw with her bear hands.
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 7, 2009 11:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"If only she could tear me up like that..."
- Sandy kazmir’s Mind
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
by P Brady on Jan 7, 2009 11:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So you're saying you wouldn't get down with a hot post-op tranny
I think you lie to yourself to sleep at night.
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 7, 2009 11:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hot? I thinky ou lie to yourself all of the time
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
by P Brady on Jan 7, 2009 11:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
drunk posting P Brady?
TB Rays in 09!!!
by RaysOfHope on Jan 7, 2009 11:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fact.
Top Josh Paul Pornos- Big Navi Stroking, 2pitchers1cup, BJ to the Balls, Riggans Your Thingans
by SRQman on Jan 7, 2009 11:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
when was the last time sandy kazmir has drunk posted?
TB Rays in 09!!!
by RaysOfHope on Jan 7, 2009 11:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Most of the time when I'm drunk I try to limit my interactions with people
Like New Years when I thought it would be a good idea to pour a punch bowl of Sangria into a wine bottle at 6 am.
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 7, 2009 11:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
haha how did that work out for you?
TB Rays in 09!!!
by RaysOfHope on Jan 7, 2009 11:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I woke up in a purple, blood-stained shirt
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 7, 2009 11:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I said hot which Chrissy is not
Heidi Klum used to be a guy same with Victoria Beckham
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 7, 2009 11:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ur crazy man
i would be all over victoria beckham
TB Rays in 09!!!
by RaysOfHope on Jan 7, 2009 11:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not crazy look it up
You’re telling me that David Beckham isn’t gay? It’s the only thing that makes sense.
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 7, 2009 11:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ya he is probably gay
its ok though, someday i will have arvil lavigne or erin andrews
TB Rays in 09!!!
by RaysOfHope on Jan 7, 2009 11:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You're going to have to wrestle Erin off of Mr. Longoria first
unless he’s already thrown her out like yesterdays newspaper.
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 7, 2009 11:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ok then ill settle for avril
longo could bet the shit out of me, not going to lie.
TB Rays in 09!!!
by RaysOfHope on Jan 7, 2009 11:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Most of her articles bother me.
I think it’s the fact that she almost never properly evaluates defense.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 7, 2009 11:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I've only read a few, nothing consistently,
but she does combine a keen eye with a rudimentary understanding of statistical analysis. I prefer writers that can incorporate stats in their writing and don’t completely base their opinions on them. I like Pos when he isn’t getting preachy or whining about the cesspool known as Cleveland IOW.
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 7, 2009 11:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So you hate me? Damn dawg, I thought we was tight.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 7, 2009 11:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You're not syndicated
I enjoy most of your articles because we think alike.
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 7, 2009 11:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Where in that rambling, incoherent passage
do you see the word hate?
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 7, 2009 11:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
bad thing to think like you?
TB Rays in 09!!!
by RaysOfHope on Jan 7, 2009 11:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It was meant as a compliment
I like that you, Mr. Glass, Brick, and Sky give me ideas to explore other avenues for analysis. It is nice to have somewhere to go where intelligent thought is encouraged and fun times can still be had. To be quite honest out of my friends I’m probably the biggest Rays fan and it is nice to have other people that share that on gamedays.
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 7, 2009 11:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i have 0 friends that i know who are rays fans
besides you guys. here in MN, everyone likes the rays story but i have barely seen people with rays gear on. my friends cant talk shit about my rays no more! haha i love it!
TB Rays in 09!!!
by RaysOfHope on Jan 7, 2009 11:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you were looking for an ego boost
after being compared to Christina
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 7, 2009 11:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Noted
I’ve called you that for too long though so don’t expect miracles
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 7, 2009 11:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I've never been big on football
One of the main reasons back then was that I just liked hockey better, and most NFL were very moronic assholes. I tried to give it a second shot a couple of years ago, and I watched a Bears game. After seeing 2 minutes of watching Sexy Rexy making a ‘throw’, I said to myself “I don’t need this shit” and turned off the TV.
I tried following again this year, and most fans are still very dumb.
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Jan 7, 2009 10:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't mean 'most', but 'many' instead
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Jan 7, 2009 10:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Kerry Collins is a WINNER!
Top Josh Paul Pornos- Big Navi Stroking, 2pitchers1cup, BJ to the Balls, Riggans Your Thingans
by SRQman on Jan 7, 2009 11:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just don't ever ride in a car with him
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 7, 2009 11:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He's also not very pleasant if you're black, I guess
Collins is having nightmares of facing the Baltimore D again in the playoffs. I’m pretty sure that tomorrow he’ll have sex change and become “Kimmy Collins”.
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Jan 8, 2009 12:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ya the Nfl is funny;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaZmHmynIyo
"Don't test the cannon"! screamed Matt Garza after b.J. Upton throws another failed attempt of scoring by a tag-up!
by raysbball on Jan 7, 2009 10:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
great comments
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 7, 2009 10:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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hassnb you are right and this video is like heaven to my eyes
"Don't test the cannon"! screamed Matt Garza after b.J. Upton throws another failed attempt of scoring by a tag-up!
by raysbball on Jan 7, 2009 10:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes I do, go fuck yourself. *Gulp*
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
by P Brady on Jan 7, 2009 11:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I can follow the game however I choose.
I won’t cheer for anyone in a Sox or Yanks jersey.
www.citadel-insurance.com
by SeanDubbs on Jan 7, 2009 10:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Did they sign the other Asian dude from the Chinese league they were looking at?
"Don't test the cannon"! screamed Matt Garza after b.J. Upton throws another failed attempt of scoring by a tag-up!
by raysbball on Jan 7, 2009 10:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure who you're referencing.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 7, 2009 10:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
O, I just saw they were looking to get someone from the Chinese league...
"Don't test the cannon"! screamed Matt Garza after b.J. Upton throws another failed attempt of scoring by a tag-up!
by raysbball on Jan 7, 2009 10:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Odds are, either they got him or he's not good.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 7, 2009 10:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Probably both
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on Jan 8, 2009 12:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Padres or Nationals would work too.
"Don't test the cannon"! screamed Matt Garza after b.J. Upton throws another failed attempt of scoring by a tag-up!
by raysbball on Jan 7, 2009 10:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Basically.
Any team but the Sox or Yanks. I’m still trying to get over Magrane leaving. The first few days of the MLB Network was a Boston/NY love fest.
www.citadel-insurance.com
by SeanDubbs on Jan 7, 2009 10:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
u expected it to be any different?
rocco i still love u man, but i will get over u like i did with beckett and lowell going to the red sox.
TB Rays in 09!!!
by RaysOfHope on Jan 7, 2009 11:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Smoltz and Baldelli
Seems like a lower risk, higher reward for them. Smoltz is nothing more than insurance and is going to be a 4 or a 5. They don’t even “need” Buchholz, so whatever they get out of anyone they have is a blessing. They didn’t make “impact” signings, but made signings that indicate their flexibility.
Joe
by joedobr on Jan 7, 2009 11:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Great job RJ
I dont come over and post much but I had to here. I couldn’t have put it any better. I’ll miss Roc and this is too hard to understand. Great job over here.
by tampabaysportsblog.com on Jan 7, 2009 11:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
In a related story: Gawd I hate this man
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 7, 2009 11:23 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I hope Rocco infects him with his disease
by plasticman on Jan 7, 2009 11:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You hate him just because you can't grow a beard like that?
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Jan 8, 2009 12:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My beard > Poukilis's beard
His looks like he put a bunch of rubber cement on his face and then had some 70’s pornstar sit on his face. I can’t tell if the pornstar was male or female, but that is one ugly virgin. Do you know where I can find a picture of him with that black eye Manny gave him? I really like that picture and it’s what I want to pull up and look at whenever I see him throw a helmet at a teammate.
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 8, 2009 9:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Couldn't find that one, but I found a good response for you talking about his beard
Fear the crazy bald man.
Mother---- him and John Wayne!
by MerryGoByeBye on Jan 8, 2009 12:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A face only a mother could love
I hope when the aliens come back to pick up him and Sam Cassell they don’t lay waste to human civilization
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 8, 2009 12:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Roc you will be missed.
You are the enemy now, though, sorry. I will never boo you, even though this is the second time you have abandoned me, but I won’t root for you until the Sox are out of the pennant race.
by rglass44 on Jan 7, 2009 11:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Everyone sounds like a bunch of spurned lovers in here all I hear is
We need you. Hell, I need you. I’m a mess without you. I miss you so damn much. I miss being with you, I miss being near you. I miss your laugh. I miss your scent; I miss your musk. When this all gets sorted out, I think you and me should get an apartment together.
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 7, 2009 11:33 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
rec'd
did you know that word-for-word or did you spend the time to look up the actual quote?
Rays 2009 Slogan: "Come back with your shield or on it"
by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Jan 8, 2009 8:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Apoligies
Hat tip to IMDB.com
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 8, 2009 9:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So help me god I will kick Baldelli's ass myself if ...
He ends up playing on a regular basis and ends up with some solid numbers. Part of me will be happy for him, but not really. He’s a freakin RedSox guy now.
by TheUltimateBucFan on Jan 8, 2009 12:05 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't be too concerned
How long do you think this deal’s going to be? If it’s a 1 year, he’ll be right back on the market next year.
Personally, I think he’s making a terrible mistake unless he’s going to be getting (and capable of handling) 3-4 appearances a week.
by kericr on Jan 8, 2009 12:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The additions of Pat Burrell and Matt Joyce designated Rocco as "odd man out" and frankly, that is the smart baseball maneuver.
Im not sure why you would use this wording, or state that as some unequivocal fact when it is not.
The Red Sox have Jason Bay, Jacoby Ellsbury, JD Drew, and David Ortiz and their starting depth doesnt make it a “dumb” baseball move that they signed him for 4th OF money to be a 4th OFer, why would it be for us?
how would you call that a “smart baseball move” IF Rocco’s doctors arent lieing (I know its a stretch) and we would have all the information we need right now to give him a 1 year deal and be able to hold onto him for another year as a 4th OFer, especially when you are ignoring the key information which is that BUrrell and Joyce have nothign to do with Rocco’s value as a RH 4th OFer who would come off the bench and work in as a platoon with Joyce and essentially replace Gross. Those signings/trades have nothign to do with Rocco, and in fact make it easier to justify signing him because he would come off the bench and not be relied on to start.
Remember we arent talking about Rocco as a starter, or being paid a high amount of money, in which case it would be appropriate to say it was a “smart baseball move” by Friedman to not keep him. We are talking about as a 4th OFer, for 4th OF money, with doctors saying he is treatable that does not equal “smart baseball move”. Not a dumb baseball move, but not a savvy one either
by Rays4242 on Jan 8, 2009 11:41 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I am okay with Rocco leaving, Im not mad at Friedman
but its not a savvy baseball move, or “the smart baseball maneuver”
by Rays4242 on Jan 8, 2009 11:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, it is.
Leave your nostalgia and emotions out of it.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 8, 2009 11:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
actually I think you should leave your emotion out of it
clearly I used facts, and your use of Burrell, Joyce, Ruggiano, and Gross only show that your wording that it is “the smart baseball maneuver” show you to be using emotion and not facts
by Rays4242 on Jan 8, 2009 11:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have emotions towards Pat Burrell, you're right.
He’s like omg so hawt!
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 8, 2009 11:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and Burrell has nothign to do with Baldelli
by Rays4242 on Jan 8, 2009 11:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...okay.
Because Rocco wouldn’t have played some DH.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 8, 2009 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe he will DH some in Boston too
who knows? He could be used in a lot of roles
He was never on the market as a DH, he wasnt signed as a DH, and none of the teams looking at him were looking at him as a DH. He is seen as having value as an OFer, not just a bat. So again I dont see what BUrrell has to do with it
by Rays4242 on Jan 8, 2009 12:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Umm what?
The Sox 4th OF would have been John Van Every, I will pause while you look up his brief career on bbref. We have Gross, Ruggs, Nando, Aybar, Zobrist, Burrell on our 25 that could all play there. Try looking at this from a different perspective.
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 8, 2009 11:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I didnt say Boston had the same situation as us
I said he is not signing to be their DH (Pat Burrell), or their starting RFer (Joyce) so what do those 2 names have to do with Roccos situation?
Once again…
Gross is lefty and provides no help to Joyce as a platoon
Ruggiano is a .200 hitter as a MLer and even Rays fans debate whether he is anything more than a AAAA player so he should have no say in letting Rocco leave
Perez is the only real argument, but then if Perez is the only player keeping Rocco off the roster then where does Gross fit in? If Perez keeps Rocco off the roster shouldnt he keep Gross off the roster?
by Rays4242 on Jan 8, 2009 11:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Does Gross suddenly have a debilitating illness?
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 8, 2009 11:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hes left handed, I thought it was clear that Joyce is not a lock to start everyday and having arighty would be beneficial
where did you assume Gross’s helath was the reason we might want to replace him?
by Rays4242 on Jan 8, 2009 11:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You debated with yourself whether letting Rocco go was truly a "smart baseball move"
It would seem you have affirmed that it is through this post. If, as you say there is no room for Gross, Ruggs is not capable, and Nando is a positive alternative to Gross then you would seemingly agree that Rocco removed from the equation is a smart baseball move. Likewise when we figure out what to do with Gross it will be an equally smart move provided we don’t give him away for nothing.
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 8, 2009 12:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no no
I clearly said in my original post it will never be seen as “the bad baseball maneuver”, and having 3 capable starters in the OF as well as an everyday DH and as well as a couple quality bench options makes that so
However, we ARE stuck with a LH starting RFer who we dont know if he can hit lefties. We have Gross, who is also lefty and not of any help with that problem, although that doesnt make him any less of a player. And we have Perez who everyone assumes has a place on our 25 man roster ALONG with Gross. So if Perez has a place no the roster iwth Gross, why wouldnt he with Baldelli if Baldelli was replacing Gross?
Again Im not calling it a bad baseball move, just posing an argument towards RJs declaration that it is “the smart baseball maneuver”
by Rays4242 on Jan 8, 2009 12:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Baldelli can't play the field
Brad Ziegler had a scoreless inning streak. Brad Ziegler had not met BJ Upton.
by P Brady on Jan 8, 2009 2:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh boy you've done it now
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 8, 2009 2:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Baldelli cannot replace Gross.
Leave aside the durability issue for a moment, except to assume that Baldelli will not play every day. That means we would like a lefty bat in right field to take the ABs against righties who comprise most of the pitchers we face. That would be so even should Baldelli start against all lefties and some of the righties when he feels well enough.
Who then is that lefty? It is not Perez who appears to be promising as a righty hitter but futile hitting lefty. Despite all the talk, I think it unlikely that either Aybar or Zobrist is considered ready to be a platoon right fielder either. So if the Rays are uncertain about Joyce, and want to have the security of a lefty right fielder on hand, the only option is Gross.
The choice then is between Baldelli and Perez or Ruggiano, not between Baldelli and Gross. If Gross is gone and Joyce is not ready, who is the platoon lefty? Not Perez and likely not Aybar or Zobrist either.
Note too that just for staying on the roster all year Baldelli gets over $2 million. That is a lot to commit when you can keep Gross who is more likely to be healthy and fulfill a need.
by bobr on Jan 9, 2009 7:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Red Sox don't have Gabe Gross, Fernando Perez, or Justin Ruggiano nor do they have a smaller budget.
The difference between Rocco and those trio is likely marginal.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 8, 2009 11:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thats a better point
but Justin Ruggiano and Gabe Gross are non factors because Ruggiano hasnt proven yet that he will be worth a damn and Gabe Gross is lefty, same as Joyce. If Gabe Gross were RH, there wouldve been absolutely no need to entertain bringing Rocco back.
by Rays4242 on Jan 8, 2009 11:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We can depend on their health.
And Gross defense makes him worthwhile despite his handiness. If Joyce really needs to be platooned, give Willy Cliff Floyd’s glove.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 8, 2009 11:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
so defense doesnt matter anymore? Why not sigtn Bobby Abreu?
Again the argument would be, you lose Gross and his salary and replace it with Roccos ( Im guessing it will be something similar) and IF WE ARE TO BELIEVE HE IS HELATHY/TREATABLE then he gives our 25 man roster more balance than having Gross
Again its not a dumb move, because like you said Gross is a quality ball player and we have Perez also as well as starters at every OF position and DH. I just dont like calling it “the smart baseball maneuver” and I think you used some prejudice there from your personal opinions of Baldelli as a ball player
the rest of the article was great, Im not trying to spit in your face or harrass you I am not just arguing as a Rocco homer either. I understand that we have a lot of depth on our roster
by Rays4242 on Jan 8, 2009 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Did I say defense doesn't matter?
All three are better defenders than Rocco. He may hit a bit better, but in the end playing time likely winds up with one of the trio winning out in value.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 8, 2009 12:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you said defense doesnt matter, when you said you would rather platoon Joyce with Aybar than with Baldelli
by Rays4242 on Jan 8, 2009 12:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You aren't very familiar with the defensive spectrum are you?
Moving from third to a corner outfield spot will improve Aybar’s defense.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 8, 2009 12:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Im familiar with heavy footed corner infielders making average or subpar OFers
Or is Ryan Braun going to win the gold glove next year?
Chipper Jones wasnt an above average corner OFer either
Can you name one heavy ffooted corner ifnielder who moved to corner OF and became a plus defender? And then tell me if you think Aybar will do that
by Rays4242 on Jan 8, 2009 12:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ryan Braun is actually a pretty good LFer.
Casey Blake.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 8, 2009 12:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If you're comparing his LF defense to his 3B defense, sure I guess
He also would be an above average catcher compared to his atrocious 3B play.
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 8, 2009 12:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Braun
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 8, 2009 12:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, hey, a 20 run improvement is pretty nice.
If Aybar could improve by 20 runs he’d be the best defensive corner outfielder in the game.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 8, 2009 12:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure on the underlying framework, but would the increase in K's from
a full season of Sheets and a lot of Sabathia inflate those numbers? Also, whats the deal with Sheets? Is a team like the Dodgers gonna end up with him on like a 2/12 type deal?
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 8, 2009 12:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sheet/Sabathia may have given him less chances, but he still made decent with those chances.
-3, which isn’t great, but it’s better than most “lead footed” outfielders do, especially in their first year.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 8, 2009 1:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Casey Blake wasn't flat footed
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on Jan 8, 2009 1:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He also rates as a good defender at 2B.
We could move Aki to RF and let Aybar play second against RHP. Or we could just skip the middle-man.
by rglass44 on Jan 8, 2009 1:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not necessarily
see: Aubrey Huff.
3B to RF is one of those transitions that isn’t always a transition down. 3B requires more quickness, RF requires more speed. Based on what little I’ve seen, I’d say Aybar has more of the former than the latter.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on Jan 8, 2009 1:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
When balling on a budget
It is necessary to factor risk into payroll decisions. Lets say we assign an injury probability to Gross, Ruggs, Nando, Baldelli, and Joyce these might come down as .15, .15, .1, .65, and .25. Wouldn’t you rather take the bird in the hand over the 2 in the bush? You know for a fact that Rocco cannot play everyday and every single one of these other players, may get hurt, but it is significantly less likely. Add in that Joyce, Ruggs and Nando still have options and Baldelli doesn’t and you have a pretty obvious solution. The only way you could argue that Baldelli should stay is because you are using emotion and masking it as “yeah but he’s right handed.” So what if he is righthanded if he is in the ice tub 4 out of 5 days.
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 8, 2009 12:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Im not sure that saying applies here
Gross is no more a “bird in the hand” than Baldelli, because where Baldelli is an unknown healthwise, you have Gross who is the worse fit backing up Joyce because of his handidness
Then you have teh fact that Gross will make a few mil, and Baldelli will make similar
If Gross were a righty and Baldelli was making much more than Gross, than you would be completely right about taking a bird in the hand over 2 in the bush, but Gross isnt an ideal fit
by Rays4242 on Jan 8, 2009 12:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gross isn't
Gross and Joyce are duplicative. But both Perez and Zobrist can back up playing solid RF and hit lefties well. And the Red Sox just need someone to spell guys every so often. I’m worried for them about what happens when Drew inevitably goes down though. Rocco won’t be able to play every day when that happens. If he can, THEN this will prove to be a bad baseball move on our end. I doubt he can though.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on Jan 8, 2009 12:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree, it still wouldnt be a bad baseball move on our part
And I will also say that you bring up a very good point about Zobrist and Perez.
You see, I am assuming that if Joyce makes the opening day roster that Gross WILL BE on this team. If that isnt so, and if Zobrist and Perez are going to be our vackups and either Joyce or Gross wont be on the team than RJ would be right that this is “the smart baseball maneuver”. However my problem is, there is no way of RJ to know that this team has no plans of using Gross to backup Joyce so there is no way of saying right now that this is “the smart baseball maneuver” as an outsider looking in with no knowledge of things that “might” happen in the future
by Rays4242 on Jan 8, 2009 12:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess that's where you differ from most of us then
It seems too dumb to have Gross as the 4th OF for that to actually happen. By the time the season starts, he’ll either be traded or Joyce will be in AAA.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on Jan 8, 2009 12:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I think this is the underlying assumption
that most of us take as a given.
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 8, 2009 12:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I dont think I differ from most of you
I agree it is borderline dumb to have Gross as the 4th OFer since Joyce is our “3rd” OFer
However, if Gross is a guy they felt good enough about to start everygame in the playoffs then Id assume condering his salary that he WILL make the team unless he gets traded before then, which is in some ways out of our control
By the same token, if we would trade a SP who pitched 180+ innings for the AL pennant winners last year for Joyce Id assume until I hear otehrwise that his production from last year will give him every chance to make the roster
Do you disagreew ith either of those points?
by Rays4242 on Jan 8, 2009 12:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
“By the same token, if we would trade a SP who pitched 180+ innings for the AL pennant winners last year for Joyce Id assume until I hear otehrwise that his production from last year will give him every chance to make the roster”
It made perfect sense to trade for a prospect. Addition by subtraction. You can’t honestly tell me that trading away Jackson doesn’t improve the team. It opened a spot in the rotation for Price, who is better than Jackson.
I agree 100% that Gross will make the team if he’s not traded. I just don’t think Joyce will if Gross does. It makes a ton of sense to start Joyce in AAA if Gross is still here:
1) He might not be a platoon hitter long-term, so he could hit full time in Durham to get work in there
2) If he spends 1/3 of a season in Durham, the Rays will control his rights for an extra year
3) If he spends 1/2 of a season in Durham, it will be a year longer before he becomes arbitration eligible
4) He pretty much skipped over AAA to begin with
5) His major league performance last year was out of line with his minor league performance. Maybe it was real improvement, maybe it was just a small sample size. If he’s in AAA, it doesn’t hurt the team if it turns out to be the latter.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on Jan 8, 2009 1:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You said yourself
That Joyce is a better defender than Gross – if Joyce is up, then why keep Gross as the 4th OF at all?
Gross is the contingency if they want to keep Joyce in AAA, simple as that. Unless we can offload Gross, it seems like a near certainty to me that Joyce will start the year in Durham.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on Jan 8, 2009 12:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Or in other words
On this part of the point, I agree with Rays4242. I don’t agree with the overall argument, but he’s got you on this point.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on Jan 8, 2009 12:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually Im assuming Gross and Joyce will both make the team
until I hear anything more than fan speculation regarding Joyce starting in AAA.
I am basing my assumption that Baldelli would have value to this team on the fact that Gross still has value to this team as a bench player.
by Rays4242 on Jan 8, 2009 12:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I realize this is speculation
But considering all the other moves this front office has made, I can’t imagine it would be dumb enough to start the year with both Gross and Joyce when right now they’re pretty much the same player. The advantage of Joyce is that he’s younger and cheaper and under control for longer (and he could be under control for even longer if he starts the year in AAA), but they’re paying Gross this year anyway which negates any real advantage Joyce brings, unless his miraculously close splits in the majors last year were because he suddenly learned how to hit lefties.
Also, I remember seeing a statement from Friedman when he was acquired saying he might start in AAA.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on Jan 8, 2009 12:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is the first Ive heard of that Friedman statement, interesting
but now do you see my point?
As fans, or “outsiders”, can we assume anything BUT that Gross will be on this roster and that Joyce will be also? So if we accept that to be true (since we cant know otherwise), it is not a “smart baseball move” to let a guy who could be a better replacement for Gross sign elsewhere when he owuldve been useful and affordable to us and bought us another year to evaluate him and his longterm health
regardless I wont look at this as a bad baseball move, even though I fully expect Baldelli to ball out if healthy.
by Rays4242 on Jan 8, 2009 12:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Then keep Perez. Doesn't matter.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 8, 2009 12:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
again can anyone show how Perez has any bearing on Joyce or Gross not making the roster?
by Rays4242 on Jan 8, 2009 12:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You can't figure this out for yourself?
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 8, 2009 12:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You cant provide a suitable argument?
Show me where it becomes more than specualtion that either Gross OR Joyce wont be on the roster next year.
by Rays4242 on Jan 8, 2009 12:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This argument would have made more sense
If you said Zobrist instead of Gross. Then again, that would belie your aniti-Zobristness. If he can approach hitting what he did last year, and if his small sample OF defensive numbers are accurate, then he’s by far the best platoon option for Gross/Joyce.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on Jan 8, 2009 12:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
good point, and I think this wraps it up
and I am by no means anti-Zoby. If we know internally that one of either Joyce or Gross WILL NOT make the roster and that the plan is to use Zobrist and Perez as backups I think that would be a much more logical reason for having no interest in BAldelli then if Gross is backing up Joyce.
by Rays4242 on Jan 8, 2009 12:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't mean you
RJ seems to have it out for Zobrist. Not scrappy enough, hits too good, doesn’t defend well enough. I think our fan base seriously undervalues him. A sub who can hit lefties well, hit righties well enough, play decent OF defense at all three positions and fake defense in the middle infield in emergencies is a very valuable player in terms of roster construction.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on Jan 8, 2009 12:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I look at him like he is a mystery right now
Its hard for me to say anybody undervalues him or overvalues him, because I coudl see hsi career sliding either way depending almost entirely on where his bat ends up
He has proven, to me atleast, that he could be a stud offensively or he could suck. This would go a long way in determing how much value he has in the future.
by Rays4242 on Jan 8, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A platoon of Gross/Zobie
would have so much God power that I dare say nothing would land.
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 8, 2009 12:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
.
- Doesn’t defend his natural positions well
- Has flukish power outbreak that certainly won’t last.
- Doesn’t walk as much as previously expected.
Yep, sounds like a good player.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 8, 2009 12:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
whyll you may be right
I think Zobrist shows good defensive tools as a middle infielder. He has good speed, and a strong arm, and he doesnt have rockhands either even though he has had some struggles booting balls. I see a guy who is dependable backing up middle infeld, that can play every other position without being aliability at any of them, and who wasnt a liability LAST YEAR with his bat.
At the very least I love having him as our backup middle infielder next year and as a guy who can backup literally every position, so we can see how his bat progresses/regresses. Its a nice situation for our team
by Rays4242 on Jan 8, 2009 12:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He's a below average defender at short.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 8, 2009 12:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So you argue the one point I agree with you about?
sometimes past stats dont give you the whole story when it comes to young, developing players defensively
by Rays4242 on Jan 8, 2009 12:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He's not young or developing.
He’s 27, he’s practically in his prime.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 8, 2009 12:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
*as far as his future goes as a defender that is
Id love to stay and debate (I knwo it would likely never end with me an you lol) but Im going golfing its phucking beautiful out!
by Rays4242 on Jan 8, 2009 12:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I went this morning.
Summary: i still suck.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 8, 2009 12:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
dont you fools work?
jesus.
I guess I dont because I sit here during the day and read all this shit and post pic of Tebow’s big titted women…
Rays 2009 Slogan: "Come back with your shield or on it"
by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Jan 8, 2009 2:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Personally, I multitask.
But I also dissapear for days at a time, so it’s all about the same.
by kericr on Jan 8, 2009 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
meant golfing.
I know you can work and still post, depending on the job.
Rays 2009 Slogan: "Come back with your shield or on it"
by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Jan 8, 2009 2:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's what I do.
Not to mention it’s 32 outside so I won’t be golfing. Bleh.
by rglass44 on Jan 8, 2009 3:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If I could turn dirt into gold I'd be rich, odds are neither is happening.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 8, 2009 12:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You make it sound like his major league performance is out of line with his MLEs
Only the home run number was high, and as you mentioned he’s walked LESS than his MLEs would indicate. So, if he walks more next year (which is what his track record would indicate) and half his homers are doubles instead (which is also what his track record would indicate), then I fail to see why he’s such a crappy player. Yes, his shortstop defense stinks, but Bartlett will be playing 150+ games there, and if he gets injured, we can call up Brignac in a jiffy. Same goes for 2B. For the 10 or so games he’ll need to play middle infield, he can still serve more than capably backing up Gross/Joyce and Crawford as well as a righty bat.
Please explain why you like Ruggiano but not Zobrist. And not in a snarky way that doesn’t actually give an explanation. Listing Ruggiano but not Zobrist seems just plain silly to me:
- Very similar hitters in the minor leagues
- Both have been old for league and are about the same age
- In SSS, Zobrist’s defensive metrics in OF show he was BETTER in the OF than Ruggiano
- Zobrist can play 7 positions, Ruggiano can play 2
- Both players have a P/PA around 4, only Zobrist strikes out less
- Zobrist had an extraordinarily unlucky BABIP for his LD% last year, indicating he should hit for better average than he did. Ruggiano was also somewhat unlucky, but not as unlucky as Zobrist.
- Both mash lefties, but Zobrist can switch hit against righties if need be.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on Jan 8, 2009 1:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
.
- Very similar hitters in the minor leagues
One is older.
- Both have been old for league and are about the same age
Fine.
- In SSS, Zobrist’s defensive metrics in OF show he was BETTER in the OF than Ruggiano
Too small of samples for either.
- Zobrist can play 7 positions, Ruggiano can play 2
Okay, but as long as you put play in quotation marks for most infield positions.
- Both players have a P/PA around 4, only Zobrist strikes out less
Not enough data for O-Swing%
- Zobrist had an extraordinarily unlucky BABIP for his LD% last year, indicating he should hit for better average than he did. Ruggiano was also somewhat unlucky, but not as unlucky as Zobrist.
Um, really?
Career LD%/BABIP:
Ruggiano: 26/.286
08 LD% BABIP
Zobrist 13.5/.255
Using the lame +.12 trick for xBABIP
Rugg: .380 (unrealistic)
Zobrist: .255
So that’s bunk.
I like Ruggiano because of his power and it appears Zobrist was overmatched in the majors, plus as you know I don’t buy into his power, and his walks haven’t translated. Plus he was an awful defensive shortstop and for the reasons mentioned I’d rather have the power/Ks of Ruggiano in the OF than the awful offense of Zobrist, even if they are on par defenisvely.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 8, 2009 2:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes the LD% is rather SSS too.
For Zobrist I’m guessing you glanced at the wrong year, that or we’re looking at some major discrepancies in source information.
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=7435&position=SS#battedball
Final point: I feel like Ruggiano has more upside than Zobrist, but I’d rather have Perez or Gross over either moving forward.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 8, 2009 2:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't address this point:
- Both mash lefties, but Zobrist can switch hit against righties if need be.
Career splts (minorleaguesplits.com)
Ruggiano .869 OPS v. LHP .917 v. RHP
Zobrist: .817 OPS v. LHP .916 v.RHP
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 8, 2009 2:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So you think it's a better use of resources
To have Ruggiano + a good defense/no-hit MIF backup than to just have Zobrist and have roster flexibility for one extra spot? That’s what my argument boils down to.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on Jan 8, 2009 3:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Especially when
As you have shown, they both hit lefties about the same and neither one stands out over the other defensively in the OF.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on Jan 8, 2009 3:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No.
Perez/Gross and Aybar and Zobrist is fine. I just don’t want Zobrist platooning.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 8, 2009 3:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I should add.
Bartlett and Aki being decent-good erase the need for another all glove MIF and may as well give Zobrist some at-bats and let him prove that it wasn’t a fluke.
by R.J. Anderson on Jan 8, 2009 3:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Big difference
With the Red Sox, he’ll be a 4th OF.
With the Rays, he would have to be a platoon OF.
Big difference between the two. If we could dictate that he would never have to play on consecutive days, it wouldn’t be an issue. The Red Sox can do that; we couldn’t.
Vogt early, Vogt often.
by Brickhaus on Jan 8, 2009 12:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gonna have to make one with a pube beard for when we play these fools
Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.
~George Costanza~
by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 8, 2009 3:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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