Jeff Niemann vs. David Price

by Kenny845 on Jan 8, 2009 11:34 PM EST

Does spring training determine the 5th spot in the rotation?

(I been getting tired of people putting Price over Sonnanstine lately)

I feel like it won't determine the 5th starter and the organization will have their minds made up in February. But I also feel like it will be Niemann. The guy won at a .656 clip with a 3.78 ERA in 49 games at Durham over the last two years, No Lincecum or Price numbers from him, but nobody should be too upset if he gets a shot.

Now...Price is the goods and he will be up in May, but..

Who else thinks Niemann pitches for us this year and does really well? Boston and New York fans should be shitting themselves.

This post was written by a member of the DRaysBay community and does not necessarily express the views or opinions of DRaysBay staff.

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Is this a joke, Price 99 out of 100times.

"Don't test the cannon"! screamed Matt Garza after b.J. Upton throws another failed attempt of scoring by a tag-up!

by raysbball on Jan 8, 2009 11:57 PM EST reply actions

There's little question that Price is more talented

but the issue is who actually gets the rotation spot. The key is that Niemann is out of options, so the Rays three options are:
1. Keep him on the 25-man roster
2. Trade him
3. Put him on waivers to try to get him to AAA.

Since the Rays seem done this offseason, it’s between 1 and 3, and obviously 1 is what’s going to happen. The problem with Niemann is that he takes a long time to warm up, so he may not work as a reliever, and would have to be in the rotation. And Price, who still has options, can start the year in Durham.

As twenty5psi below me said as I was typing this up, I would work with Niemann on his warming-up method in the spring, and then ease him into a relief role in April and May(ie always having him start an inning rather than having to warm up quickly and entering with guys on base.

www.raysprospects.com
Trade for Billy Butler!

by Imperialism32 on Jan 9, 2009 12:16 AM EST up reply actions

(he would obviously get claimed by another team if he were placed on waivers)

www.raysprospects.com
Trade for Billy Butler!

by Imperialism32 on Jan 9, 2009 12:16 AM EST up reply actions

With in seconds.

In the name of Shinji Mori, we shall win!

by thebaddancingraysfan on Jan 9, 2009 1:27 AM EST up reply actions

FIRST QUESTION..before all of this.

Does Price start throwing February 15??? No? ok then when? 123 IP last year,,

2008 Tampa Bay Rays: The Longest of Longshots

by Kenny845 on Jan 9, 2009 12:21 AM EST up reply actions

Actually Price through about 130 innings if you count playoffs.

Even though Price is a horse, I can’t believe they’d make him throw more than 160 IP next yea

Also, most of the post-season staff is going to have a light spring. Friedman/Maddon made a comment to this effect after the WS ended. It sounds like they’ll take longer looks at Niemann, Talbot, Davis, Hammel, et al. and give the rotation a break.

by Lurch's Lobbyists on Jan 9, 2009 1:45 AM EST up reply actions

Her threw almost 200 IP as a sophomore in college

Between college and his stint on Team USA

I don’t think a possible sudden increase in workload is a big issue

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Jan 9, 2009 8:45 AM EST up reply actions

thats important

maybe he will just start ST a little late and be in the rotation all year.

2008 Tampa Bay Rays: The Longest of Longshots

by Kenny845 on Jan 9, 2009 2:51 PM EST up reply actions

True

I just think with last year’s elbow strain they will continue to err on the side of caution.

by Lurch's Lobbyists on Jan 9, 2009 2:55 PM EST up reply actions

I think early on he just overthrew

Nothing serious he was just amped and trying to show what he can do. This year he should be a bit more mellow.

Anyway, as I was lying in the puddle, I think I may have found a way for us to get Bonds and Griffey, and we wouldn't have to give up that much.

~George Costanza~

by Sandy Kazmir on Jan 9, 2009 2:59 PM EST up reply actions

its almost too bad we dont have a veteran SP to guide/pace him

kind of like Floyd did for the hitters. Although I think a pitcher can learn a lot more from anotehr vet pitcher, than young hitters can from a vet. I dont think it will effect Price’s career much, although it made me think of this when you said he overthrew or was amped up to start the year.

by Rays4242 on Jan 9, 2009 6:44 PM EST up reply actions

actually Kazmir and Garza would benefit a lot also

Sonny and Shields seem to be the 2 who dont let emotion effect them negatively ever

by Rays4242 on Jan 9, 2009 6:46 PM EST up reply actions

Veteran SP would be nice

Unfortunately a decent veteran SP would cost a lot more than a Cliff Floyd. It seems like Maddon/Hickey do a servicable enough job with the staff. I know the rumor is that Hickey lost Kaz, but Garza seems to have really gotten himself in check. ALCS Game 7 is ample evidence for that.

by Lurch's Lobbyists on Jan 10, 2009 3:29 AM EST up reply actions

I think Kazmir and Garza will be great next year, for the record

and its hard to lay “blame” on a pitching coach for a pitcher who posted a 3.49 ERA last year and made the all star team. It was the worst developmental year of his career, but I dont think its anythign to worry about right now. Even though Kaz didnt have “it” for a lot of starts his stuff was still good enough tousually give us the lead through 5 innings. But Kaz and Garza could definitely benefit from a vet

I actually dont think we should sign a vet SP. We have no room, and the only thing they would do is block somebody like Price, Niemann and Davis who should all be ready this year. It’s actually an amazing thing that we cant even entertain bringing in a vet SP in any capacity, but I guess if we could there are some intangibles that some of our guys could benefit from

by Rays4242 on Jan 10, 2009 2:50 PM EST up reply actions

That should factor into the decision

but professional innings/pitches are more stressful than college, especially at the MLB level.

by Aaron Campeau on Jan 10, 2009 12:55 AM EST up reply actions

They should spend some time with Neimann to developing an effective way for him to warm up in the Bullpen.

Unless something happens the starting spot is Price’s to lose.

by twenty5psi on Jan 9, 2009 12:12 AM EST reply actions

Niemann should get a chance to win the #5 spot.

I have no problem with Price starting in Durham for a couple months to refine a change-up.

by Lurch's Lobbyists on Jan 9, 2009 12:44 AM EST reply actions

As well as delay his service time clock.

by R.J. Anderson on Jan 9, 2009 1:02 AM EST up reply actions

I don't think it would make much of a difference, or have a negative effect

The team actually has somewhat of an incentive for him to stay in the majors sooner, since his salary is predetermined through 2012. If they leave him in the majors now, then they’ll get two extra cheap years when he would normally be arbitration eligible.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Jan 9, 2009 8:42 AM EST up reply actions

Scratch that

I should read better.

“# Price may void salary & file for arbitration in any year he is arbitration-eligible”

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Jan 9, 2009 8:43 AM EST up reply actions

Yeah, that's the catch.

by R.J. Anderson on Jan 9, 2009 10:34 AM EST up reply actions

I agree only...

If Niemann is tremendous in ST. On the flip, if Price is terrible, then he should stay in AAA for a few months or so. The point is to have the best rotation possible to begin the season, right?

Don’t get me wrong, I like Niemann, I really do. I just don’t like him more then I do Price or Sonny.

In the name of Shinji Mori, we shall win!

by thebaddancingraysfan on Jan 9, 2009 1:31 AM EST up reply actions

Ok so I dont think ive ever told this story here

but a few years ago, when Niemann was first invted to spring training, I went to the 711 on the corner of 9th and 22nd around 12 am. I bought my beer and who was in line in front of me, well it was Jeff Nieman. I was very excited, since this was the first time I had seen him in person and since it was his first spring training, hardly anyone probably knew who he was. So i was thinking about what I would say as I walked up in line behind him and before I could say anything, he asked the 711 clerk for a large pack of magnum condoms and a pack of gum. haha I couldnt help but laugh and felt really awkward to say anything. Needless to say, when he was walking out the door, I wished him good luck on the next season. Just a really wierd moment to meet an athlete you follow in that way.

by BossmanJunior333 on Jan 9, 2009 2:14 AM EST reply actions 1 recs

..

haha! i dont believe it.

2008 Tampa Bay Rays: The Longest of Longshots

by Kenny845 on Jan 9, 2009 8:26 AM EST up reply actions

That's how he got the nickname Big Red.

by R.J. Anderson on Jan 9, 2009 10:34 AM EST up reply actions

Hahaha. That's great.

Big Z is the MAN.

by .Taylor on Jan 9, 2009 10:16 PM EST up reply actions

I think Niemann is still vastly underrated by Rays fans because we are so overloaded with pitching prospects

I think we will convert him into a reliever THIS YEAR and he wont have a chance to start, but I think he is goign to be a really good pitcher who is still going to develop more and more once he starts facing ML hitters

by Rays4242 on Jan 9, 2009 1:52 PM EST reply actions

Don't Rule out Trade

Niemann still rates high compared to many teams 4 and 5 starter. I would still not be surprised to see a trade in Feb. as camp is starting or possibly even during ST. (I don’t think its that common to pull anything but minor ST deals, but anyway). Think NL team. Maybe for an RP and a minor leaguer?

It will be interesting to see what the Rays do with Niemann if he stays, but I don’t think it would be shocking for them to be conservative with Price’s workload.

by Thejeffg on Jan 10, 2009 2:00 PM EST reply actions

I think Niemann for a RP is terrible value

In fact I think we would struggle to get what Iwould call fair value for Niemann at this moment. Hes pitched 2 years in AAA with very good, but not great, numbers and he is a 25/26 year old prospect. He hasnt really had a chance to show out because of our pitching depth. On literally ANY otehr team in baseball last year he wouldve cracked the starting rotation at some point, if not out of Spring Training

by Rays4242 on Jan 10, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions

Niemann's trade value

Should be no less than an above average reliever and a good OF prospect in the low minors.

by Lurch's Lobbyists on Jan 10, 2009 5:01 PM EST up reply actions

You're overvaluing him IMO

Good prospect or not, he’s an unproven 26 year old with a huge injury history on a roster with too many pitchers. He’s not going to look that attractive to most teams, and the ones that do like him recognize that they can probably get him for less than fair value since the team will need to trade at least one good pitcher before the season starts.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Jan 12, 2009 9:11 PM EST up reply actions

he may prove to be more valuable to us than what we get in a trade for him

2008 Tampa Bay Rays: The Longest of Longshots

by Kenny845 on Jan 12, 2009 9:48 PM EST up reply actions

He may

But he may not. If we can fill a position of need or get a decent prospect, it’s not that likely unless he can learn how to warm up quickly enough to relieve.

Vogt early, Vogt often.

by Brickhaus on Jan 15, 2009 9:52 PM EST up reply actions