Neurotic Thoughts Over a $7M Closer
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 10, 2009 8:45 PM EST
135 comments
The thought of these Rays paying a reliever $7M is still fresh and decisively odd. Sky Kalkman and Dave Cameron - two baseball analysts with respect levels from me beyond quantification - discussed the concept on Twitter yesterday afternoon. I'll summarize in paragraph form because after the last four days I am sick and tired of 140 characters or fewer.
Rafael Soriano is probably worth at least $7M next year, assuming he gets plenty of high leverage innings and pitches like the rough projection from yesterday suggests. Regardless, this is the Rays. This is the team of getting the most bang for their buck. Well, yes, but at the same time, the Rays have done such a fantastic job of loading up on depth - cheap depth - and worthwhile starters that there's simply no other place to upgrade, meaning splurging on Soriano isn't as bad because it's not like they're robbing another position of need to pay one with less impact.
Which is exactly why I agree with Dave.
Since the Rays are in a position to do more than challenge for a playoff spot, the marginal value of an extra win becomes worth more than if they were an 80 win team looking for win number 81. Say the Rays just went from a 92 win team to a 94 win team, that's worth a lot in terms of playoff probability. Between the Numbers estimated that a playoff appearance is worth $25M, which trumps $7M three times over. Squeaking another win or two out of a strapped roster is more important now than ever before.
Which is exactly why I agree with Sky.
I am a fan of Soriano. I am a fan of acquiring him for Jesse Chavez. I am a wee bit skeptical at spending $7M on him when his absolute upside might be three wins. Instead, what if the Rays spent that money on Rich Harden. The likelihood of getting no production would've been substantially higher, but so would the potential upside. Plus, how much better is he then Wade Davis? Well then, what's the value of keeping Davis down and avoiding Super-Two status? And what if Harden stays healthy for the entire seasons by some stroke of divinity?
This is also the reason Milton Bradley has long been appealing. He'll come cheaper because of injury concerns, and if you get that one special year. Watch out. Of course, you could also go the other route and minimize risk rather than maximize reward; this is why Brad Penny gets as much money as Harden despite being nowhere near as good. We can go on and on about this, at the end of the day, Soriano combines the two lines about as well as any free agent reliever available did.
This issue isn't black and white in the least. Let's face it, 2010 is going to be the last year with this core. Carl Crawford, Carlos Pena, Soriano, and potentially Pat Burrell are due for free agency after the season. The odds of keeping all of them is something like 0.02%. In many ways, if the Rays are ever going to go all in, this is the year to do it. Further, it's only $7M. Only in the sense that there is no future loss here. They didn't trade Reid Brignac or Jeremy Hellickson or Jeff Niemann for Matt Capps. They didn't trade J.P. Howell for him. They gave up a reliever with some upside who could morph into Soriano if everything strikes just right.
Even some trivial things come to light. Do you realize the Rays are paying Soriano the same amount they paid Chad Bradford and Troy Percival combined last year? Who doesn't take that swap? And the potential for draft picks is pretty tasty. Of course, if the Rays turn around tomorrow and trade Crawford for Will Venable I'll raise some eyebrows, but barring a clear out salary dump of someone important, I guess this really doesn't hurt the team either way.
If nothing else, the complexity of thought raised by this move beats the hell out of "Gabe Kapler signs for one-year, $1.05M".
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I'll agree $7 million is a bit much for an RP
and while Soriano isn’t the bargain we are used to seeing, he’s still a value. Looking around at the roster, it’s hard to see where we could’ve upgraded. Sure, maybe catcher, but theres so few realistic options out there and who’s to say Stu allows for the extra payroll to sign one.
We spent over $10 million in the bullpen on Percival, Bradford, Shouse, Izzy, Nelson alone in 2009 and all of them combined won’t equal a healthy Soriano.With that being said, tt’s not like we’re taking money from another position and throwing it at a RP just because. If Wheeler is dealt, the 2010 pen might actually make less than the 2009 pen, and be much improved.
I also like the fact that it’s a one year deal (I guess two at max) and we didn’t give up a key piece of the Puzzle. Sure, Jesse Chavez was an interesting case, but we have plenty of those available. It’s not an ideal move, but it works.The team improves in 2010 without damaging the future.
www.draysbay.com, www.beyondtheboxscore.com, Twitter @trancel
I feel quite similarly about all this
Going into this off-season, this sort of move was one of the very last things I would have expected from the FO, and it’s a bit of a struggle wrapping my mind around it all. The trade itself seems quite sound (I can’t believe we only gave up Chavez for him), so it’s really just the money that is throwing me off; I can’t believe we’re spending that much on a “proven closer”. It’s crazy, but also rather exciting – this year we’re going all in, balls to the wall. I can’t wait to see this pen in action…
"I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain't never been seen by this generation." - Satchel Paige
by Steve Slowinski on Dec 10, 2009 9:21 PM EST reply actions
In theory, right now Wheeler/Balfour are the 6th/7th inning options.
That’s pretty silly considering they were Choices A2 and B just two seasons ago.
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 10, 2009 9:56 PM EST up reply actions
amazing how one move can make 4 or 5 players "better"
Howell now goes back to being one of the best set-up men in baseball, Wheeler into a less leveraged role and Balfour has the chance to be a bullpen “ace” with the incentive of free agency on the horizon next season. Best part is those 4 relievers should only have to worry about 2 innings instead of 3 to cover with a strong closer and strong rotation.
by raysfaninminnesota on Dec 10, 2009 9:59 PM EST up reply actions
I love the idea of JP roving again
Chillin’ out the game so Soriano can wrap ’em up. Love it.
"I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain't never been seen by this generation." - Satchel Paige
by Steve Slowinski on Dec 10, 2009 10:28 PM EST up reply actions
That was exactly my problem.
A sort of knee-jerk reaction that the Rays were not spending $7 million on a closer. Then I had a discussion with a very bright baseball fan and did some rethinking (unfortunately after posting) and began to see it differently. (Which does not mean I like contemporary closer usage, just that I am resigned to it and recognize that we are adding a very valuable reliever no matter how he is used-and as others point out one who allows other relievers to be used more appropriately.)
This bright baseball fan, his name wasn't Sternfan1, was it?
Don’t believe his lies.
I'm a writer.
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 11, 2009 9:16 AM EST up reply actions
He is bright
and anyone who uses the pseudonym Sternfan 1 has to be respected, but no, it was not he.
So is this move seen as the last piece of the pen for 2010?
Or are we still looking to add another arm? Also was Chavez considered a bullpin guy next year or was he seen more an investment for the futre?
Chavez was in the mix, but there was a decent change he could've started in the minors because he had minor lg options
As it stands: Soriano, Howell, Balfour, Wheeler are in with Cormier, Choate looking strong. That would leave one spot for Sonny/Talbot/Thayer/insert name
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by Tommy Rancel on Dec 10, 2009 9:34 PM EST up reply actions
How dare you put down user LKMoreland's dreams.
by Samwise Sutty on Dec 10, 2009 9:53 PM EST up reply actions
I'm the one who wanted Kiko from the get-go.
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 10, 2009 9:53 PM EST up reply actions
Why don't you just calm down before I have to throw some water on you.
by Samwise Sutty on Dec 10, 2009 9:54 PM EST up reply actions
still could be avail on the cheap in January
may not cost more than Nelson did last year…I’d like to think still could be a possibility depending how the market shakes out…but if not, bullpen still lookin good.
by raysfaninminnesota on Dec 10, 2009 9:57 PM EST up reply actions
Nelson made 1.2 or 1.3 mil last year
Calero signed a 1 yr 500k contract this season with the Marlins and posted solid numbers. He’s 34, has injury history, but has pitched in American League and if healthy is a solid reliever. Depending how things shake out, Nelson’s contract seems like a solid offer.
by raysfaninminnesota on Dec 10, 2009 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
I think he would be a good edition
Im not a big Sonny fan some him in the pen makes my dick shrivel. I think one more veteran bullpin addition and we have a solid solid bullpin
Let's not assume that someone like Wheeler won't be moved
to make better use of payroll
Stu put his money where his mouth is
They’ve always said there is flexibility if the right deal comes along. And as everyone has been saying right here, this appeared to be a special case of a proper place to upgrade, given where the team depth stands. This became a “right deal” situation. Soriano, if it pans out on the field like it does on paper, gives them a top flight closer for a lower-end closer market price. They are not locked into a long-term deal so future seasons are not being plagued by this. This is a situational upgrade by an organization that is wanting to roll the dice on going for it this season without giving up the future. All it cost was Jesse Chavez and prying a little more into Stu’s wallet. The safety net is the Rays getting a decent return if he leaves after this year. (Rays could have 3 type A’s this off-season—theoretically up to 7 first round picks in that mix).
A smart move by an opportunistic FO.
by raysfaninminnesota on Dec 10, 2009 9:46 PM EST reply actions
Soriano
This is a huge statement by the FO to go all in for 2010 without leveraging the future. If Soriano was on the open market it would have likely required at least 2 if not a 3 year deal to sign him. This bully is so much better than the 2008 version, putting Howell, Wheeler, and Balfour back to pitching to their strengths. If they do nothing more, this has been a solid hot stove league for the Rays.
I really think it was brilliant
1st for a team with a tight budget, they had to think on their feet at the arb acceptance curveball and go against the grain of what has been instilled into their fan base.
As bobr pointed out, generally to acquire someone like Soriano, its going to have to be one or more of the following: a multi-yr deal which as we’ve learned through Wheeler, Bradford, and Percy carries quite a bit of risk, the loss of a first rder due to type A status, or the loss of one or more key trading chips. This affected none of those three things and now we have the potential to acquire comp picks or a Chavez type back after the season.
It also was a bit of a perfect storm with teams like the Astros locking up Lyons. Lyons 3/15 of 1/7 Soriano? Life is good.
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Exactly.
One thing that is often ignored on this site (with good reason) is what a move signals to the “common fan.” The ownership group was mired with the cheap label after the Kazmir deal, and this move acts as a signifier that that isn’t the case. they addressed the issue that was probably the most malligned in the media and to the common fan with a smart deal. Good will should be bought with $7 million, and hopefully come April it will be rewarded.
Crawford+Pena+Burrell+Soriano+maybe Wheeler=40 million off 2011 payroll
Basically the RFO might already have budgeted for 2011 season in the low mid 50’s which means 2011 dollars spent for the 2010. It’s called a win now pay now approach, nothing really new. You got a lot of big name big money contracts coming off the books after the next season. You can thank the Longoria and Shields team friendly contracts to help the RFO cause for the upcoming years. Arbitration raises and players contracts raises won’t be near the 40 million the Rays will be able to reduce payroll in 2011 so we can sleep well. Today was a good move by the RFO and shows how much they want to win.
Here's the way i look at it
If they couldn’t (add him) they wouldn’t
We read every year how all these teams are losing money. Hell a couple years ago i read where the NYY lost $50 million dollars. I don’t believe it for a minute.
Every time a team goes up for sale there’s always several suitors clamoring to buy it, at a price much more than what the previous owner paid
Accounting methods used to show P and L are as hidden from the public as Ft. Knox
Let’s just enjoy this ownership and show our thanks by supporting his efforts by showing up at the Trop
Well there is still the question if it is efficient allocation of resources
It seems they have done such a magnificent job stockpiling deeply discounted talent, that perhaps it was the best use of resources. Even if we still use the DRB closer methodology based on leverage not inning, its one more high leverage reliever. We are probably best served using Soriano as a 9th inning guy however to ensure Type A status.
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As i was told once about spending so much
on a closer, it is something you have to do if you can’t produce one from your own system
I like the Percy/Bradford analogy
Regardless, DRB doesn't run the Rays.
Mira Sorvino...Paul Walker...T-Pain...Fall 2010...HEADSTONE MAFIA, A LOVE STORY OF REVENGE. "5/5 stars!!!" - DRB User "Andy Hellicksonstine"
by PlayOnWords on Dec 11, 2009 7:37 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Regardless, DRB doesn't run the Rays.
We’ve had a closer since 2007. As much as we like to think the Rays and this site are on the same brainwave, we aren’t on this issue. Matthan, it pains me to say, was right. We are a closer team. So why this baffles you all is surprising.
Mira Sorvino...Paul Walker...T-Pain...Fall 2010...HEADSTONE MAFIA, A LOVE STORY OF REVENGE. "5/5 stars!!!" - DRB User "Andy Hellicksonstine"
by PlayOnWords on Dec 11, 2009 7:39 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I agree with matthan as well
The position drb did share with the FO is generally spending a lot of $ on a closer or high leverage reliever was noy an efficient use of resources.
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Even so, $7m isn't a helluva lot in closer dollars. Didn't Hoffman get $10m last year from the Brewers? I know they gave Gagne a 1/$10m deal.
So its still quasi-Raysesque, to borrow from PK.
Mira Sorvino...Paul Walker...T-Pain...Fall 2010...HEADSTONE MAFIA, A LOVE STORY OF REVENGE. "5/5 stars!!!" - DRB User "Andy Hellicksonstine"
We're not anti-closer
We’re anti using lesser relievers in the toughest situations while saving your best RP for the final three outs. Or sticking with your crappy closer in the 9th, while better options are availabile (Percival’d).
Even with Soriano, to me Howell is our best RP and Maddon can feel free to use him in those situations now.
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by Tommy Rancel on Dec 11, 2009 8:58 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
and a smarter opportunistic choice
We spent 7.5 mil on Bradford and Percival. We blew money on risks such as Nelson, Isringhausen, etc.
Instead of rolling the dice, we spent the money on one player who should pay more dividends than all those guys combined.
by raysfaninminnesota on Dec 11, 2009 9:02 AM EST up reply actions
There is still no guarantee
Soriano could be an enormous bust, but its a 1 yr deal, and didn’t affect the long term model at all (maybe it helps if we get comp picks).
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relief is always a risk
but there are much better odds on a 30 yr old coming off a very good season vs a few has been’s and never was’s
by raysfaninminnesota on Dec 11, 2009 9:06 AM EST up reply actions
Which is why I think they were more comfortable with Soriano than Wagner.
The injuries were not so recent.
Mira Sorvino...Paul Walker...T-Pain...Fall 2010...HEADSTONE MAFIA, A LOVE STORY OF REVENGE. "5/5 stars!!!" - DRB User "Andy Hellicksonstine"
and it only cost Chavez
this was an opportunity that fell into the Rays lap and they pounced on it. I love this FO
by raysfaninminnesota on Dec 11, 2009 9:09 AM EST up reply actions
Sure, I'm for the move
Its easy to forget that Nelson was a pitcher with injury history whow e signed coming off a career year FIP 3.45. K/9 of 10. He seemed a lot less risky at the time than Isringhausen who was still recovering.
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It's nice when you have multiple high-leverage relievers
whether you choose the closer model or not, the only way a bullpen operates successfully is if you have multiple guys who can get the job done. Adding Soriano gives another guy who can help out in leverage situation.
Better yet, the Rays didn’t pay top notch price for potentially a top notch closer. That makes it a good deal to boot.
by raysfaninminnesota on Dec 11, 2009 9:00 AM EST up reply actions
That's what I feel is the biggest plus to this deal.
JP can rove the land again and slay dragons.
Mira Sorvino...Paul Walker...T-Pain...Fall 2010...HEADSTONE MAFIA, A LOVE STORY OF REVENGE. "5/5 stars!!!" - DRB User "Andy Hellicksonstine"
Accounting losses and economic losses are very different things.
No pro sports team actually loses money.
I'm sure plenty of sports teams actually lose money in a given year
But over time, the FMV of the team still offsets any losses.
There’s a reason why, until very recently, ownership of minor league teams changed hands so frequently. It’s a tough business, and where you’re relying on ticket sales, you can lose a lot more than you make. Obviously in MLB, there isn’t as much of an issue because of revenue sharing, but some teams probably do lose real money in some years. They just end up getting it back over the long haul. You’d need to really screw up for EBITDA (excluding CapEx) to not be positive.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I'm sure Stu knows whether or not he can afford a $7m reliever
Better than you or me. I also think that they didn’t believe Soriano would be available through any other channel than free agency. So when he said we won’t add a $7m reliever, I think he was specifically talking about Wagner, who they have obvious reservations about physically.
Mira Sorvino...Paul Walker...T-Pain...Fall 2010...HEADSTONE MAFIA, A LOVE STORY OF REVENGE. "5/5 stars!!!" - DRB User "Andy Hellicksonstine"
by PlayOnWords on Dec 11, 2009 7:34 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Aslo getting him the way they did, allows for a one year deal
As a FA he’s looking multi year, and that spells trouble
Obviously he knows better.
I’m not claiming to know the economics of this team’s ledger one way or the other. I’m working within the reported restrictions.
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 11, 2009 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
In addition to multi year deal
also the loss of 1 or 2 draft picks
I think to a large degree this makes us more a traditional team
as it relates to using a bullpen. We had strayed from that based on rexources, yet we all should remember the bullpen had defined roles as early as ’07 ( Reyes & Co)
What i’d like to see is a bit more thinking ‘outside the box’. For example re-call the ALCS this year when the Yankees came back to take the lead 6-4 v LAA. Girardi used three or four relievers to eventually lose the lead in the bottom of the 7th. Then trailing in the 8th he brings Mo in to “protect” a deficit. Why not use Mo in the 7th to hold the lead and allow him to pitch the 8th, taking your chances that the 90+% rule (teams leading aftr 8 win) will hold up?
Resources meaning a large investment (7 mill)
Defined roles have largely existed with the team in the Maddon era.
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The FO gave Maddon an extension, so to a degree we also have to believe that they also believe in defined roles.
Mira Sorvino...Paul Walker...T-Pain...Fall 2010...HEADSTONE MAFIA, A LOVE STORY OF REVENGE. "5/5 stars!!!" - DRB User "Andy Hellicksonstine"
also, ergo, have, also.
Mira Sorvino...Paul Walker...T-Pain...Fall 2010...HEADSTONE MAFIA, A LOVE STORY OF REVENGE. "5/5 stars!!!" - DRB User "Andy Hellicksonstine"
It's perfectly fine to have defined roles as long as the manager
Understands that they aren’t set in stone (Hillman). That’s where designated tags become dumb. Don’t continue to use Jamey Wright just to save Soria from throwing to an extra batter.
Without official titles, we know the Rays bullpen had defined roles for the past few seasons, but in a lot situations Maddon showed willingness to use his best RP in the toughest situation late in games. Now with Howell, Soriano, Balfour and even Wheeler, he has multiple options to get those final 6-9 outs making his job a lot easier.
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by Tommy Rancel on Dec 11, 2009 8:52 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Do you agree with my 'outside the box' thinking?
I recall the three game sweep of the Royals last year when they had leads in the 8th all three games yet Hillman waited till the 9th to use his closer for the save he never got
That's generally the site's leitmotif.
Mira Sorvino...Paul Walker...T-Pain...Fall 2010...HEADSTONE MAFIA, A LOVE STORY OF REVENGE. "5/5 stars!!!" - DRB User "Andy Hellicksonstine"
dude, i'm out of college over 30 years, that's a bit heavy this early
i’ll assume it means their agenda
by sternfan1 on Dec 11, 2009 8:47 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You are a kid--you just had a baby
hell i’m lucky if i can piss out of that thing anymore
I can't promise there won't be a Ball-Four response or two
but please know this, i am a passionate if not always rational Rays fan
Stay out of my archives Z-man or i'll come over and
force you to watch Golden Girl re-runs with me
I still have to work, no daytime reruns for me for the foreseeable future
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
It means their recurring theme, or an image or idea that brings cohesion to a series of essays, stories, songs, articles, etc.
Mira Sorvino...Paul Walker...T-Pain...Fall 2010...HEADSTONE MAFIA, A LOVE STORY OF REVENGE. "5/5 stars!!!" - DRB User "Andy Hellicksonstine"
BACK IN OUR DAY, WE WALKED THIRTY MILES JUST TO BUY A PACK OF GUM TO GLUE OUR SNOW SHOES BACK TOGETHER
by Samwise Sutty on Dec 11, 2009 9:21 AM EST up reply actions
UP HILL BOTH WAYS.
I'm a Brett Favre honk so FUCK YOU!
by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Dec 11, 2009 10:22 AM EST up reply actions
Yea of course
It also matters when the heart of the order is up which leverage indices don’t take into account
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Closers around the league:
LAA Fuentes 2/17.5
ATL Wagner 1/7
MIL Hoffman 1/7.5 (1/7 ext.)
CLE Wood 2/20.5
NYN Rodriguez 3/37
PHI Lidge 3/37.5
CIN Cordero 4/46
BOS Papelbon 1/6.25 (last year to avoid arb. likely make more than Soriano this year)
MIN Nathan 4/47
CHA Jenks 1/5.6 (1st year of arb. last year)
Rivera 3/45
All in all, he’s probably going to be about the 15th highest paid reliever next year. Most of those guys were acquired via trade/FA where a lot more was given up too.
Yea, I'm curious the total cost in draft picks/prospects surrendered plus contract
Soriano has to stand out as the top assuming you believe in 1 year deals for expensive relievers
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Ya wasn't offered
funny thing is he wanted to stay in Chicago so badly he told the GM (who is almost like a father to him) he would sign for anything, but fearing the players union and wanting Wood to be able to make top dollar he declined.
the ghost of stokes, camp, lugo strikes TB-sept 2009
by CubFanRaysaddict on Dec 11, 2009 4:29 PM EST up reply actions
and only Papelbum was a closer in his prime available for a 1 year deal outside of Soriano
and that’s only because he was an arb guy
by raysfaninminnesota on Dec 11, 2009 9:33 AM EST up reply actions
still the Rays have found a rarity
there have been no closer in his prime available on free agency or trade in recent years on a 1 year deal. Way to take advantage of that opportunity.
by raysfaninminnesota on Dec 11, 2009 9:38 AM EST up reply actions
No reason to
Thats apples to oranges, this is just looking at established closer acquisitions by new teams.
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Glass's Win Curve
With only 8 starters (no RF) and 4 starting pitchers (no Davis), RGlass’s conservative WAR projections are 8.5 Wins light of FG community projections. Good times ahead.
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Those seemed pretty high when looking at them.
I don’t think FG users discount enough for possible injuries.
I don't disagree.
But 95 conservative wins is fantastic. Once more FG projections are in we can look at the ALE on FG for apples to apples.
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good point.
It’s really going to be interesting to see because the O’s could be a projected 80 win team depending on what all they do. They’ll probably still only win 70 games.
I agree with you on injury projections
In my projections, I haven’t really included injuries unless it’s a player like Harden or Hamilton who has a longstanding history of missing time with injuries. It’s hard for me to speculate that this will be the year Zobrist or CC will pull a hamstring and miss three weeks, even though I know it will probably happen to one or more of our players. For the most part my projections like most, will be best case scenarios of everybody staying healthy.
lol... yes
OT from MLBTR:
Jason Bay Rumors: Friday
By Tim Dierkes [December 11 at 8:23am CST]
As you know, the Mets topped Boston’s Jason Bay bid by $5MM by offering four years and $65MM yesterday. John Tomase of the Boston Herald provides some insight into Bay’s asking price: he says Bay’s agent countered the Boston offer with six years at $16-18MM annually. So, between $96-108MM. It’s been speculated by one official that the team offering Bay five years will get him.
This is the best case scenario.
The Mets sign him, so the Sox don’t even get their 1st round pick. Here we go Mutts!
how about we sign santiago casilla
worth a minor league deal right?
He's not too good, but for minor league depth he'd be fine.
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 11, 2009 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
So he has that in common with you
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by FreeZorilla on Dec 11, 2009 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
ImusMark2
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by FreeZorilla on Dec 11, 2009 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
If we didn't already know how old you were
That comment right there would have given away your age. I’m older than most on this sight and even I associate Imus with old guys.
In a vacuum 7 million is way too much
However there are way more dynamic factors at work. If the Rays had a set payroll # and a set # of wins they want to reach then perhaps paying 7 million is the best way to get to that point based upon how the current roster was constructed.
Remember this is a short term thing. Next year that 7 million can be better used on a hole that develops. This year the money was best used at reliever.
Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.
I'm having a hard time understanding why Zaun went to the Brewers
What was our offer?
Please don't mention his name.
It still hurts.
Mira Sorvino...Paul Walker...T-Pain...Fall 2010...HEADSTONE MAFIA, A LOVE STORY OF REVENGE. "5/5 stars!!!" - DRB User "Andy Hellicksonstine"
by PlayOnWords on Dec 11, 2009 11:51 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Zaun/Replacement
Shoppach’s career OPS vs RHP is .704 while Zaun’s is .730. We netted a comp pick for Zaun. Playing about 50% fo the time Zaun is worth about 1.5 Wins. Playing 25% of the time its .75 Wins. Its not unrealistic to expect Jaso or Lobs to be worth .25-.5 wins playing exclusively vs RHP. So for the cost of .25-.5 wins we saved 1.5 Million and received a 2nd rd pick. Those savings helped out with Soriano.
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by FreeZorilla on Dec 11, 2009 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
You heartless bastard. I've got one thing to say to you, in your own infernal tongue
101111010101010001011101011010111101110101010100000111101010101010100001010101.
Mira Sorvino...Paul Walker...T-Pain...Fall 2010...HEADSTONE MAFIA, A LOVE STORY OF REVENGE. "5/5 stars!!!" - DRB User "Andy Hellicksonstine"
by PlayOnWords on Dec 11, 2009 12:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
'½T]kÝT ª¡'???
I guess I should have known there were binary code translators available, but it’s still surprising.
the ghost of stokes, camp, lugo strikes TB-sept 2009
by CubFanRaysaddict on Dec 11, 2009 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
Soriano threw 75 innings last yr and was worth 2 WAR
Nelson, Springer, Bennett and Percy comined for 79 innings and were worth a combined -1.3 WAR. This is really a 2 Win upgrade minimum should Rafa stay healthy.
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Not to mention there will be fewer Walks
saved on the tums too
by Transplanted on Dec 11, 2009 1:11 PM EST up reply actions
Why the comparison between Rafael Soriano's hoped value and those guys
he should be getting compared to his replacements, who in this case would have been servicable options (Sonny/Thayer/Chavez > Nelson/Bennett/Percy). I don’t think this is a 2 WAR Upgrade, and, even if it is, 7 mil for 2 WAR, while technically market value, is not something I ever want to be paying a player, particularly an injury-prone reliever with alternatives still left on the market. This money would have been better served getting the Bradley deal done in my opinion with some left over to potentially sign a cheaper reliever option.
Maybe they picked Soriano up thinking they could flip him? but we have more leverage than the Braves because, when push comes to shove, we can eat the contract if we really want/need to. Wishful thinking but…
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