Reaction to Roy Halladay Trade and Mike Cameron Signing

by R.J. Anderson on Dec 15, 2009 1:42 AM EST

Roy Halladay Likely Getting Dealt

Toronto gets some prospects, Halladay gets a realistic shot at pitching in the World Series, and Seattle gets Cliff Lee. This one is a win for the Rays because it gets perhaps the best pitcher in the division out into that other league and eliminates any chance of him becoming a Red Sox or Yankee ace within 12 months.

Selfish thought: "Boy I hope Michael Saunders is dealt so the Mariners have to sign Gabe Gross to replace him."

Boston Signs Mike Cameron

During the 2008 season, some bozo on local radio compared B.J. Upton to Cameron as if that would be a bad thing. Cameron's career has been a thing of beauty. Since 2002 he's posted five seasons worth 4 or more wins and 30 wins overall. He's one of the best defensive center fielders we've seen, and yeah, he strikes out a lot. Sue him for being awesome but not super radical. The bad news is he's probably better than Jason Bay, the good news is that he's not Matt Holliday. Unfortunately he came cheaper than he should've too.

Selfish thought: "I cannot wait until silly Boston fans boo Cameron and Drew; two of the most underrated outfielders of the 2000s."

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Best case scenario for the Cameron signing

is the Sox stick him in LF and allow Jacoby to continue his grit in CF. Also U.S.S. Mariner is pretty funny right now, I wonder if Dave likes Lee?

the ghost of stokes, camp, lugo strikes TB-sept 2009

by CubFanRaysaddict on Dec 15, 2009 1:49 AM EST reply actions

Wait just a cotton-pickin' minutes, Halladay lives in Tampa?!

Why not give out a hometown discount and come to the Rays? He’d be as likely to win a title here.

Me babe, steppin' out
Into the night, into the light

by Orlando Rays on Dec 15, 2009 6:15 AM EST reply actions

Even with the discount he's looking for 20M

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by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 15, 2009 9:38 AM EST up reply actions

So does this end their pursuit of Bay and Holiday?

by sternfan1 on Dec 15, 2009 7:18 AM EST reply actions

Probably

The Sox might end up signing Beltre now to potentially replace some of Bay’s power numbers. The bigger question now is where does Bay end up? Seattle? New York?

by PhillyRays on Dec 15, 2009 9:12 AM EST via mobile up reply actions

I figured it would be NY once they got Granderson, since he doesn't make crazy money.

I can’t think of anyone else ready to spend that kind of money.

I'm a writer.

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 15, 2009 9:40 AM EST up reply actions

Greet the Mets...

by rglass44 on Dec 15, 2009 11:27 AM EST up reply actions

Omar Than A Feeling?

LINK

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by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 15, 2009 11:30 AM EST up reply actions

One guy is going into his prime the other heading toward retirement years

What no mention that Cameron should have regression going to the AL again? He doesn’t know the present AL pitchers. Bay is heading toward his prime years and his stats prove it. Cameron will face a lot more/better left handers in the AL East and he isn’t going to make up the 49 RBI’s Bay had over him in 2009. One’s WAR stats coming from the NL Central at age 37 and never with much of history facing the current group of AL pitching won’t mean he will be a plus 4 WAR player anymore.

by rickrays on Dec 15, 2009 9:35 AM EST reply actions

He'll probably be hitting 6th or 7th with a bunch of good OBP guys ahead of him, RBI's won't be a problem, if you're into that sort of thing

Their defense was atrocious last year, they are wise to shore it up, though it seems like a waste to have someone with Ellsbury’s speed in a small LF. They should be looking to get Beltre to continue the trend.

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by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 15, 2009 9:43 AM EST up reply actions

Cameron isn't going to make up 49 rbi's

Good, I hope they put Ellbury in LF.

by rickrays on Dec 15, 2009 10:18 AM EST up reply actions

You do know that RBI's are virtually meaningless, right?

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by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 15, 2009 10:19 AM EST up reply actions

Not as a team stat they aren't

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Dec 15, 2009 10:54 AM EST up reply actions

I mean, there's a better measure for the same thing (runs)

but it’s at least something everyone knows that ties in to wins and losses.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Dec 15, 2009 10:55 AM EST up reply actions

We can admit that it is more a function of who is ahead of you, than any sort of individual skill.

I'm a writer.

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 15, 2009 11:04 AM EST up reply actions

Point being, it is silly to say that Cameron is less of a player because he has X number of less RBI's.

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by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 15, 2009 11:05 AM EST up reply actions

Cameron wil be a much better player with the Sox

B/c His RBI total will increase

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by FreeZorilla on Dec 15, 2009 11:33 AM EST up reply actions

Faux, that still won't be why he's better

Having a top-5 hitting environment for half his games should allow him to ball out for 2 years and get one more decent contract. Provided, the city of Boston doesn’t ask, who is that negro out there and what is he doing on this team?

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by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 15, 2009 11:37 AM EST up reply actions

I was kidding

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by FreeZorilla on Dec 15, 2009 11:41 AM EST up reply actions

I know this, I just wanted to throw in some sort of Boston is racist crack

I guarantee he’s lynched before this deal is over.

I'm a writer.

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 15, 2009 11:42 AM EST up reply actions

How funny was the Good Will Hunting shtick on Sunny?

Hardest I’ve laughed at that show

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by FreeZorilla on Dec 15, 2009 11:43 AM EST up reply actions

You're just a janitor

Charlie is one of my all-time favorite characters, nice to see you coming around, it gets funnier the more you know the characters.

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by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 15, 2009 11:44 AM EST up reply actions

The LEague was renewed for 13 episodes

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by FreeZorilla on Dec 15, 2009 11:45 AM EST up reply actions

In 1984

Don Mattingly had 110 RBIs. Not bad, but not superstar quality, so the next year, the Yankees replaced him at 1B with….Don Mattingly. I guess they decided to give him another chance, and he made the most of it. He drove in 145 runs to lead the league. But the next season he reverted to form, managing just 113 RBIs despite hitting .352 with 53 doubles, 31 home runs and a league leading 388 total bases.

That year he also led the league in hits, OPS, OPS+, doubles, slugging % and plate appearances. But he apparently was not a good RBI man except for that one outlier year the previous season, at least not as good as Joe Carter who did lead the league that year or Tony Armas who did it in 1984. Maybe Donnie Baseball was just not clutch, or maybe he didn’t have that extra drive that Armas and Carter had to bear down with runners to drive in.

So what happened in 1985? Perhaps he wanted to prove something. Or perhaps someone lit a fire under him. Or perhaps-well we can let the sportswriting psychologists do the “analysis”.

Wait, it couldn’t be that in 1985 the Yankees acquired Rickey Henderson who had a .419 OBP that year hitting in front of Mattingly, could it? Or that the next year Rickey slumped to a .358 OBP?

As for Cameron, his defense will certainly help Boston, his bat is fine and why mention lefty pitchers? Cameron is right handed and has a career OPS vs lefties of 859.

by bobr on Dec 15, 2009 11:37 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs

Rec'd

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by FreeZorilla on Dec 15, 2009 11:42 AM EST up reply actions

Boom Shaka Laka

to use the parlance of our times.

I'm a writer.

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 15, 2009 11:43 AM EST up reply actions

I love you.

I'm a Brett Favre honk so FUCK YOU!

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Dec 15, 2009 12:00 PM EST up reply actions

Jason Bay is not heading towards his prime.

He’s heading towards a decline.

by R.J. Anderson on Dec 15, 2009 11:44 AM EST up reply actions

You could not be wronger

Last 3 years RBI totals: 84, 101, 119

It would appear to me he is getting better every year.

I'm a writer.

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 15, 2009 11:48 AM EST up reply actions

He'll still knock in 30 plus HR's and 100 RBI's with a good club

Over a 100 runs scored last year even with average hitters behind him. I’ve heard too many excuses about Bay. He’s too slow, he can’t field. Fact is he took Boston to two postseasons while playing for the Red Sox. I’ll gladly have Rays pitchers face Mike Cameron than Jason Bay. By the way old man Bay had 13 SB’s vs Cameron’s 7.

by rickrays on Dec 15, 2009 1:16 PM EST up reply actions

How is it that you're smart enough to cite WAR, defense, and baserunning, but still rely on RBI for run production?

Bay is a horrible fielder and a good hitter with old player skills who wants a long contract and lots of money. Cameron is older, an above average bat, and a very good defensive centerfielder who got less than he’s worth. For Boston, this is a coup.

by R.J. Anderson on Dec 15, 2009 1:18 PM EST up reply actions

I hope this isn't a sign that they'll be trading Ellsburry.

It really worries me that they could still target Holliday/Bay/Beltre/A-Gonz.

by rglass44 on Dec 15, 2009 11:29 AM EST reply actions

Beltre seems like a foregone conclusion

Youk hasn’t been a very good fielding 3rd basemen.

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by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 15, 2009 11:32 AM EST up reply actions

Neither is Beltre anymore

Talk about a player going into his declining year’s its Adrián Béltre.

by rickrays on Dec 15, 2009 1:01 PM EST reply actions

If this is a reply to me, Adrian Beltre is, arguably, in the top-5 of fielding 3B in MLB

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=3b&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=700&type=0&season=2009&month=12
I would put Longo and Zimmerman ahead, and probably tie him with Rolen, Figgins, Crede, and Feliz.

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by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 15, 2009 1:14 PM EST up reply actions

You need your corner fielders to hit with power something Beltre has a problem with now

He’s getting heavier and with that the range is in a decline. Errors are piling up as well. I hope for goodness sakes the Red Sox sign this has been then V-Mart and his horrible catching is behind the plate for 120 games.

by rickrays on Dec 15, 2009 1:22 PM EST up reply actions

Safeco absolutely kills righty power

Take a look at Washedup with the M’s and with the Tig’s last year as one example. Put him in Fenway and he’ll revert to an above-average hitter with an above average-glove. He’s the best 3rd sacker on the market, and should receive something like a 3/25 contract.

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by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 15, 2009 1:28 PM EST up reply actions

No you don't.

You need your corner fielders to be good players.

by R.J. Anderson on Dec 15, 2009 2:48 PM EST up reply actions

You know what the best thing about that link is?

It ranks players by total UZR over the last 3 years an Longo is 2nd despite only playing for 2 seasons…

He’s so dreamy

by nolesblogger on Dec 15, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions

Yaaa

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by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 15, 2009 2:44 PM EST up reply actions

Beltre doesn't have old player skills and he plays great at a premium defensive position.

by R.J. Anderson on Dec 15, 2009 1:19 PM EST up reply actions

I worry that he might only have half the testosterone production of the other boys

Seems like an unfair disadvantage. He should be allowed a small amount of HGH every day.

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by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 15, 2009 1:21 PM EST up reply actions

Still can't hit for power anymore

and 12 seasons have taken it’s toll. He’s not the player he was three years ago.

by rickrays on Dec 15, 2009 1:29 PM EST up reply actions

I guess Chone Figgins is a horrible 3B then since he doesn't hit for power.

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by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 15, 2009 1:34 PM EST up reply actions

Figgans won't be nearly as productive in Seattle as he was for the LA Angels

The offense just isn’t there as least for the moment but yeah Figgans is still very good. No way Chone gets the run total he was used to for the Angels. That’s a interested one two punch in Seattle leading off the batting order. Felix Hernandez and Cliff Lee should be awesome one two puch as well from the mound. A lot of pressure on Lopez and Gutiérrez to produce. Jack Wilson???

by rickrays on Dec 15, 2009 8:18 PM EST up reply actions

Safeco kills right-handed power.

Fenway is doubles heaven.
.

by R.J. Anderson on Dec 15, 2009 2:50 PM EST up reply actions

I miss this.

He had one bad year at least partly due to injury. In his 3 previous years, playing in a park that is death to right handed power hitters, he hit 25, 26 and 25 home runs and 39, 41 and 29 doubles. Even last year, in fewer ABs, he got 27 doubles. Why does that indicate that he can’t hit for power anymore? It seems to me he is a power upgrade from Lowell who hit 17 home runs each of the last 2 years with Fenway as his home ball park and had a high of 21 in his 4 years there. And Lowell is 5 years older than Beltre.

And if the Red Sox sign him, he provides exceptional defense so they have upgraded from two of the worst defenders in the majors to two of the best. That alone makes his acquisition, if it happens, a plus for Boston.

He is not a major star, especially as he does not get on base much. But the issue is whether Boston becomes a better team with Cameron and Beltre, and I think there is little question that they do.

by bobr on Dec 15, 2009 8:51 PM EST up reply actions

Beltre can't hit for power?

(Both of these, for example, happened within the last two years; And FYI, that’s Beltre hitting a homerun while trying to foul off that pitch in the 2nd gif.)

by ThundaPC on Dec 15, 2009 11:33 PM EST up reply actions

Not to sound rascist

But Boston had to finally reach their black guy quota of 1 which I doubt they have filled in years. No Big Papi does not count he is Dominican. Finally a African American Starter on the Red Sox. Lets not hope he becomes relegated to Rocco Baldellil’s role.

Devil Rays World Series 2009

by Japhei on Dec 15, 2009 5:31 PM EST reply actions