J.P. Howell: The Man, the Myth, the...Starter?
During Eric's interview with Carson Cistulli on Thursday, Carson brought up a point that I was pondering myself about a month ago: how good of a starter would JP Howell be if given the chance again? Here's what he had to say on the matter:
"The real question, for me, is how this affects J.P. Howell. I've been the giantest Howell apologist for some time now. It seems like he could make a fantastic starter. From 2005 to 2007, Howell made 33 appearances (all starts) and posted xFIPs of 4.41, 4.08, and 4.12, respectively. His tRA*s (that is, regressed tRA, available at StatCorner) are less friendly over that time period (5.16, 5.21, and 5.24, respectively), so maybe I should just can it. Still, if he's down with it -- and I don't know, maybe he's not -- then I think it's worth a shot."
We all know that starters are much valuable than relievers, with even the best relievers only racking up around 2+ WAR over the course of a season (there is an argument to be made that WAR undervalues high-leverage innings, but the point still holds). This is why players like Joba Chamberlain and David Price are transitioned back into the starting rotation, even after proving to be dominant coming out of the bullpen; they're simply too valuable to not have them in the rotation. JP Howell has been dominant out of the pen - no doubt about that - but there hasn't been any sort of murmurings to move him back into the starting rotation. How come? Should he remain in the pen, or are we being silly to not consider him for the starting rotation?
For those that forget, JP Howell was initially a starter when first acquired by the Rays in exchange for Joey Gathright. He started 15 games over the course of the 2006 and 2007 seasons with the Rays, compiled ERAs of 5.10 and 7.59 respectively, and was moved to the pen at the start of the 2008 season as the long man. Since then, well...I don't need to tell you how he's done since then. Here's a look at all his important stats (remember, the numbers from 2005-2007 are from the rotation, and 2008-2009 are in the bullpen):
|
K/9 |
BB/9 |
K/BB |
HR/9 |
BABIP |
LOB% |
FIP |
xFIP |
tRA |
|
|
2005 |
6.69 |
4.83 |
1.38 |
1.11 |
0.298 |
59.80% |
5.00 |
4.41 |
6.37 |
|
2006 |
7.02 |
2.98 |
2.36 |
0.85 |
0.357 |
69.40% |
4.02 |
4.08 |
5.28 |
|
2007 |
8.65 |
3.71 |
2.33 |
1.41 |
0.391 |
58.70% |
4.77 |
4.12 |
5.57 |
|
2008 |
9.27 |
3.93 |
2.36 |
0.60 |
0.259 |
78.70% |
3.39 |
3.54 |
3.62 |
|
2009 |
10.67 |
4.46 |
2.39 |
0.95 |
0.268 |
83.30% |
3.71 |
3.47 |
3.95 |
Despite the bloated ERAs, it looks like Howell may have been a fairly talented starter. His K/BB ratio is very similar to Matt Garza's K/BB from this past year (and you notice, didn't change any upon moving to the bullpen), and his BABIP and LOB% suggest that he was the victim of bad luck. His xFIPs (a predictive statistic) also seem to imply that he's a serviceable major league starter; however, tRA begs to differ, probably because tRA accounts for batted ball data as well:
|
GB/FB |
LD% |
GB% |
FB% |
|
|
2005 |
2.28 |
21.30% |
54.70% |
24.00% |
|
2006 |
1.55 |
25.50% |
45.30% |
29.20% |
|
2007 |
1.48 |
22.80% |
46.10% |
31.10% |
|
2008 |
1.82 |
16.70% |
53.70% |
29.50% |
|
2009 |
1.42 |
16.40% |
49.10% |
34.60% |
The first thing that jumps out at me (and I mean jumps out at me) is the steep drop-off in line-drive percentage in 2008. Howell gave up a pretty high percentage of line-drives as a starter, including a ridiculously high 25.5% in 2006. Upon moving into the bullpen, though, Howell started giving up significantly less line-drives and creating more groundballs, both of which are huge helps. Looking at all of these numbers, we can come to one of two conclusions: either we believe that Howell was an effective starter but merely an unlucky one, or we believe that there is some underlying reason why Howell let up large numbers of line-drives and was ineffective as a starter. Which one is it?
To be honest, this argument could probably be argued effectively in both directions. Over the past two years, Howell has proven that he has dominant stuff and that he's an expert at deception and mixing pitches. Maybe his luck improved when he moved to the bullpen, and he received the typical boost in performance that starters typically gain upon pitching out of the pen (approximately .75 FIP, if I remember correctly). At the same time, though, I can't help but notice this fact:
|
Effectiveness |
wFB/C |
wSL/C |
wCB/C |
wCH/C |
|
2005 |
-0.91 |
-0.38 |
3.1 |
-0.32 |
|
2006 |
-0.25 |
0.19 |
-0.37 |
-0.54 |
|
2007 |
-1.96 |
4.4 |
0.76 |
-2.27 |
|
2008 |
0.6 |
3.84 |
1.17 |
1.74 |
|
2009 |
0.37 |
-5.63 |
1.58 |
3.2 |
|
Avg. MPH |
FB |
SL |
CB |
CH |
|
2005 |
85.4 |
80.7 |
76.5 |
78.8 |
|
2006 |
82.7 |
77.8 |
76.2 |
76.5 |
|
2007 |
82.7 |
78.4 |
78.9 |
77.2 |
|
2008 |
86.4 |
81.0 |
80.5 |
79.7 |
|
2009 |
85.6 |
79.7 |
80.9 |
79.6 |
Before moving to the bullpen, Howell's fastball averaged around 82 MPH, giving him only 5 MPH separation from his change-up. This lack of velocity made both his fastball and change-up ineffective, which changed when Howell moved to the bullpen. In the bullpen, Howell's fastball gained velocity and separation from his change-up, and as a result, they became some of his most effective pitches. Heck, as FreeZo discussed in this piece, Howell's fastball froze batters for called strikes 37.5% of the time this past season. Even with good mixing and deception, would that same fastball freeze batters if it only went 82-83 MPH? I tend to doubt it. It's a small decrease in velocity, but it may be enough to make a meaningful difference.
With these reasons in mind, I believe the Rays are making the correct choice leaving Howell in the bullpen. If moved back into the rotation, he probably wouldn't be as bad as he was in 2007, but also not nearly as good as he's been in the bullpen. Best estimate: a 4.25 FIP, which certainly isn't horrible, but also isn't awe-inspiring. Of course, he could always be better than that, but considering the starting pitching depth the Rays have in the franchise, their lack of dominant bullpen depth, and their position on the win curve, it'd make no sense for them to move a valuable, cheap, dominant arm out of the bullpen. If Howell were still on the Royals, on the other hand, it might make more sense for them to leave him in the rotation, since they have little starting depth and they could afford to take the time to see how Howell fared. Also, what's the point of having a dominant closer if you can't get him a lead (*cough*Soria*cough*)?
So Carson, I definitely agree with you in that I think J.P. could still be a valuable starter and it's fun to ponder about intellectually (I spent many lunch hours daydreaming about it myself), but it isn't going to happen anytime soon. At least not on the Rays.
32 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I agree. If we had the need, it would definitely be interesting
However, just like the debate on paying Soriano instead of a starter (lets say Rich Harden), he seems better suited for his relief ace role on this 2010 version of the Rays.
www.draysbay.com, www.beyondtheboxscore.com, Twitter @trancel
by Tommy Rancel on Dec 20, 2009 12:20 AM EST via mobile reply actions
This.
He is worth more in marginal wins as a reliever versus bumping Davis or Neimann off the starting rotation.
IIRC, the reason why he was made a reliever was because he'd always get eaten up the 3rd time through the order.
I don’t know if that’s legit or not, but if that’s the case, I don’t imagine it being too much different if they put him back in the starting rotation now.
Not that it matters since he’s an extremely good reliever, but I’m just sayin.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
This.
The Chiller is amazing, but he can only go so long without getting frost-bitten. Best to put him against guys who are used to a Garza fastball before they see Howell’s sickly bendy things. Then as they adjust downward the next time, Soriano blows past them.
by ReasonableDoubt on Dec 20, 2009 7:52 AM EST up reply actions
Yea
1st time around: .220/.324/.331
2nd time around: .289/.347/.459
3rd+ time around: .317/.380/.534
K% 1st 23.6%
K% 2nd 19.7%
K% 3rd 16.2%
His K/BB did not worsen, but way more balls were being put into play, and harder given the slugging splits.
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
That's what I remembered too, but I couldn't find the stats to back that up
Where’d you find that? Just curious.
But yeah, I wonder what it was that made him get more hittable as the game went on. He seems to be good at mixing pitches, so I doubt he just wasn’t adjusting. Was his fastball losing too much velocity? That’s my guess…if you start off throwing 84 and end up at 79 by the 6th inning, that could be rough.
"I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain't never been seen by this generation." - Satchel Paige
by Steve Slowinski on Dec 20, 2009 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
...I feel silly
"I never threw an illegal pitch. The trouble is, once in a while I toss one that ain't never been seen by this generation." - Satchel Paige
by Steve Slowinski on Dec 20, 2009 10:45 PM EST up reply actions
should have listed PA SS
299 2nd time thru
169 3+
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Dec 20, 2009 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
My eyes know what they saw and it wasn't bad bounces that contributed to giving up a quarter of BIP as liners
These numbers seem to confirm eyes. It’s possible that over a larger sample that it all regresses to league average, but I remember too many starts where JP was getting hit hard in the 5th. With his control that’s a recipe for disaster.
I'm a writer.
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 20, 2009 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
ISO is a decent indicator of lucky bounce luck
.111
.170
.217
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Dec 20, 2009 12:17 PM EST up reply actions
What does this have to do with me commenting on small sample sizes?
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 20, 2009 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
Don't take it personal, I'm just saying that taking a 360 view is better than saying S^3.
I'm a writer.
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 20, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
thank you
I'm a writer.
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 20, 2009 1:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The Rays did have a change in pitching coaches near the end of 2007.
Maybe Hickey saw a few things which aided in the turnaround.
Hickey was the pitching coach for all of 2007
I don’t see the point of messing with a good thing. Looking at 2nd time through the order in 2005-2007 JP wasn’t that good either. I heard opposing announcers discuss while JP was a starter back then.
JP needs to regain his confidence. The second half last year particually after that awful night in Seattle Howell lost control of his pitches resulting in less swing and misses. Maddon will probably use JP in full innings mostly in the 7th like Cormier as both are good vs left and right handed batters. The matchup days of 2009 are pretty much over I hope.
As much as I like Talbot I hope he goes
I don’t have a clue on Cruz but if someone is interested in him that much I would want to hang on to him. Talbot is out of options and with little MLB experience I’m not sure why the Indians want him. Good Mitch crack the Indians rotation? Probably. We shall see.
I'mma have to put my money on the PTBNL being Talbot...they wouldn't trade a start-able catcher for a guy a few years away with a burnout risk.
Also, I got SBN to fix my account and now I can have a picture and a sig. Huzzah!
"That's not baseball, that's soduki or whatever you call it."
Hope Talbot makes it
2007 Bulls starting rotation:
Niemann
Sonnistine
Howell
Hammell
Talbot
Nice for the player development staff if all made it to the show.
How can you have any pudding if you havn`t eaten your meat? I`m still waiting...
by Barnese and Bailey Circus on Dec 20, 2009 10:49 AM EST reply actions
Is that what we did with the T-Shirt windfall?
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Dec 20, 2009 12:10 PM EST up reply actions


























