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Rosenthal To Rays: Just Give Up!


With something like 150 free agents remaining unsigned, and two months until pitchers and catchers report, the Rays should just cancel the upcoming 2010 season.  Forget spending the spring in Port Charlotte or having an opening day at home for the first time in years, the season is over right now; at least it is according to Ken Rosenthal. The senior baseball writer for Foxsports.com wrote the following last night...

Rest of AL East should just give up now

How would you like to be the Tampa Bay Rays? The Baltimore Orioles? The Toronto Blue Jays?

Now pitching for the Yankees in 2010: CC Sabathia, A.J. Burnett, Andy Pettitte and Javier Vazquez.

Now pitching for the Red Sox: Josh Beckett, John Lackey, Jon Lester and Clay Buchholz.

And rest assured, the two AL East super-powers are not done.

-snip-

Sabathia, Burnett and Pettitte will welcome Vazquez, make him feel comfortable, help him relax. Vazquez will be in the final year of his contract, pitching for one last big free-agent score. Yes, there are questions about him, just as there are questions about Lackey, who has been on the disabled list with arm injuries in each of the past two seasons.

Tell it to Tampa Bay. Tell it to Baltimore. Tell it to Toronto.

Rosenthal also mentions that the Yankees will replace Melky Cabrera with a free agent and the Red Sox could still add Adrian Gonzalez, but none of that matters. Just look at those front four starters for each team and cancel your season tickets. Sure, in Toronto and Baltimore, 2010 is looked upon as a rebuilding year, but how about the 2008 AL Champion Rays? Ah, forget it too.

Star-divide

A team with a front FIVE of Shields, Garza, Price, Niemann and Davis is apparently not good enough to compete in this division. First, the Rays don't have a real ace. James Shields is nice and all, but no ace. I'm not even going to listen to people when they say now that besides the newly National League'd Roy Halladay, James Shields is the only other starter in the AL to post a 4 WAR season in each of the past three years. Or that he's racked up nearly 800 innings of sub 4 FIP ball in his career. He also just turned 28, is about to hit what many consider his prime years and under contract for seasons to come at a bargain...pass!

Forget the 2008 ALCS MVP, Matt Garza and his crazy 93=96 mph fastball. Who can win with this hot-head? All he did in 2009 was top 200 innings for the first time in his career while maintaining a steady 4.17 FIP and 4.21 xFIP. Surely headed into the 2010 season at age 26 there is no room to improve already improving K/BB, LOB%, or contact rate. Seriously folks, a slider that had the fourth best pitch value among AL starters and generated a swing and a miss 20.1% of the time isn't that impressive.

Behind those two guys what do you have? David Price, a former #1 overall selection and one-time consensus top two prospect in baseball? All Price did last year was develop from a two pitch pony into a potential five pitch stallion. Honestly, there is nothing to get excited about from a 24-year-old left hander who throws in the mid 90s and showed tremendous improvement in control during the season. I'm sure you're not believing that just because his BB%  went from 16.8% to 6.3%.that he's actually maturing as a pitcher. Let's also disqualify the fact that over the final ~70 innings, Price managed to get over 44% groundballs.

Jeff Niemann and Wade Davis? Let's face facts here my friends. Jeff Niemann and his straight fastball don't scare anyone (ok, maybe that one is really true). In his first full season in the big leagues, the Big Nyquil posted a 3.2 WAR season while throwing 180 innings of 4.07 FIP ball. The fact that his 3.94 ERA was within .15 runs of his FIP shouldn't get your hopes up. Nor the fact that his BABIP looks pretty sustainable. What I want to see out of my big 6'9 RHP is strikeouts and Niemann doesn't do much of that so just toss him aside.

This Davis kid looked completely overmatched in his first taste of big league ball. Sure, in his third start he tossed a four-hit, 10 strikeout shutout masterpiece, but he got hammered in Fenway just five days before. I know he's likely a consensus top 35 prospect, but so what? You don't really believe that his mid 90s fastball along with his hammer curveball and slider that missed 15% of bats (sss) will really last an entire season, do you?

Taking my tongue out of cheek now, I'm not saying the Rays rotation is the best in the AL East. That would be silly. However, discounting them completely is also silly. The Rays very well may finish in third place, but I seriously doubt they won't contend for most of if not the entire season. While some may honestly believe the AL East race is over in late December,  I think Shields, Garza, Price, Niemann, Davis, B.J. Upton, Carl Crawford, Evan Longoria, Carlos Pena, Ben Zobrist, Jason Bartlett, J.P. Howell, Grant Balfour, the newly added Kelly Shoppach and Rafael Soriano might have something to say about that.

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Ken Rosenthal is an idiot!!!

With all due respect Ken, I think we will stick around and see if we can give everyone a nice big shit burger!!!

I hate when people resort to making sensational claims or statements just to get people talking about their articles.

Ken is an asshat. If I anyone ever see’s him ask him if he ever got the herpes taken care of?

"Geno Hayes sucks though
He is one notch above Sabby Piscatelli
by Sveet on Dec 1, 2009 12:34 PM EST"

by PewterPirate55 on Dec 23, 2009 6:42 AM EST via mobile reply actions  

All the kids in Springfield are SOBs

And so is Ken Rosenthal.

Maybe I’m just an old fashioned BJ suck-off-er. (Good call Sandy)

by Lurch's Lobbyists on Dec 23, 2009 6:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Love the shit burger remark

Major League is still my choice for GOAT in the sports movie category.

Great piece, Tommy. Reminds me that I need to get off my ass and renew the season tickets. This rotation is going to be fun to watch.

by jwgator on Dec 23, 2009 7:28 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Well, the game is not played on paper.

I hope some one prints the article off and posts it in every single one of the Rays lockers, even the minor league kids. This is ridiculous. Beating the Yankees and Red Sox this year will be even MORE sweeter.

Blah!

by thebaddancingraysfan on Dec 23, 2009 6:59 AM EST reply actions  

Ken is on a roll

1st that whole “I have a hunch” article and then this drek? Is he really out of writing material?

by Jason Collette on Dec 23, 2009 7:10 AM EST reply actions  

Boooo.....

I wanted to dig through the Rosenthal archive, yet it only goes back a few months. Coward!

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Dec 23, 2009 7:21 AM EST reply actions  

Rosie's AL East predictions

http://whereistand.com/KenRosenthal/29441

This site was the best I could do. Rosenthal’s pick for 2008 AL East? The Red Sox
2009 AL East? The Rays
2010 AL East? Must be the Yanks right?

He’d make a terrible gambler.

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Dec 23, 2009 8:01 AM EST reply actions  

Thanks for this voice of reason post

I hate all the damn fools who spew this crap too. Yes, just because the Rays don’t make all the splashy, expensive moves means they can’t compete with the Yanks or Sox.

No, all they do are the under-the-radar minor league callups and trades like the Kelly Shoppach deal that garner no attention, but significantly improve the ballclub. No, nothing useful at all.

Fuck off Ken.

by FloridaownsFSU on Dec 23, 2009 8:11 AM EST reply actions  

lmao

How can you have any pudding if you havn`t eaten your meat? I`m still waiting...

by Barnese and Bailey Circus on Dec 23, 2009 10:28 AM EST up reply actions  

lol

--Gerald Wallace is the best player the Bobcats will have..... EVER
--Someone should slap Larry Brown and bring him back to reality..

by raysfan81 on Dec 23, 2009 11:19 AM EST up reply actions  

lol

I miss George Steinbrenner. He was the man responsible for keeping the Yankees competitive.

by kericr on Dec 23, 2009 11:51 AM EST up reply actions  

I believe it probably is....

--Gerald Wallace is the best player the Bobcats will have..... EVER
--Someone should slap Larry Brown and bring him back to reality..

by raysfan81 on Dec 24, 2009 1:27 PM EST up reply actions  

one must take into account lackey's injury history over the past few years

missed 75 games in the last 2 seasons

--Gerald Wallace is the best player the Bobcats will have..... EVER
--Someone should slap Larry Brown and bring him back to reality..

by raysfan81 on Dec 24, 2009 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

OMG

Thank you Ken! You saved me a lot of heartbreak! <3

Fuck off, you douchebag.

Go Rays!

by Thermacold on Dec 23, 2009 8:18 AM EST reply actions  

I'm going to laugh my ass off

when the Rays win the division.

Let’s see how well Vasquez and Lackey each fair in those two bandboxes.
Vasquez will be giving up 5 runs a game pitching in this division, and Lackey will be close and will probably miss time again.

1-5 the Rays have the best rotation in the division, though not 1-3.

1-9, I also like the overall line-up better for the Rays if PtB and Pena hit better. Still like to pick up 1 more solid bat, but maybe Joyce or DJ fills that.

by Blue or CONKZILLA on Dec 23, 2009 8:25 AM EST reply actions  

it would be great if the rays could pull it off. Even better if they win by 10+games

unfortunately that would never happen

--Gerald Wallace is the best player the Bobcats will have..... EVER
--Someone should slap Larry Brown and bring him back to reality..

by raysfan81 on Dec 23, 2009 11:22 AM EST up reply actions  

I did say 10 games would be nice but i did say it wasn't realistic

Honestly if Upton keeps playing D at the same level and his bat comes alive along with PTB damn this is a dangerous team WATCH OUT!!

--Gerald Wallace is the best player the Bobcats will have..... EVER
--Someone should slap Larry Brown and bring him back to reality..

by raysfan81 on Dec 24, 2009 1:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Vazquez pitched in Chicago which is a banbox in its own right

They will both be fine…

We do not have the best 1-5 in the AL East, I’m sorry. Maybe better than the RedSox (some injury help/dissapointment would have to occur) and the Yankees rotation is poised to be stratospheric.

The lineup is solid, for sure, and we definatley have a chance when we factor in defense, but our shot is lower this year then it was last year, because we can’t expect 8 WAR from Zobrist or a career year from Bartlett or Crawford. Will we make it up elsewhere, hopefully, and not having a month of Troy Percival and instead having Soriano is great, but lets not kid our selves.

by Navi's_Navy on Dec 24, 2009 4:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Eh

The reason I like the Rays staff better is because it’s younger, I think that Davis will be a deciding factor in the divison.

I like NY’s top 3, but Burnett staying healthy again would surprise me. CC is a stud and Andy is consistent. I like Vasquez, but I don’t think he will fare well with NY and I don’t like their #5.

Boston, I just don’t see their staff being as good as the Rays or the Yanks.

The Rays probably 3rd for the closer slot, but if the Rays pen is closer to 2008, then 2009…then overall pitching will quite possibly be better than the other two.

As for the lineup, if Zobrist and JB do 80% of what they did last season, the rays should be happy. I think CC will put up similar numbers. If PtB and Los can get the averages up to the .250-.260 range and BJ can come in at .270+ and find the power again, it should be between the Rays and the Yankees. I think the Rays team speed will be a big factor if their is a .010-.020 gain in OBP.

by Blue or CONKZILLA on Dec 24, 2009 6:54 AM EST up reply actions  

The reason I like the Ray`s staff as much is...

I expect Price , Garza, Davis and perhaps Niemann to continue to develop while Sox (besides Lester) and Yanks to remain static or regress.

How can you have any pudding if you havn`t eaten your meat? I`m still waiting...

by Barnese and Bailey Circus on Dec 24, 2009 12:09 PM EST up reply actions  

CANCEL THE SEASON. START THE 2010-2011 OFFSEASON NOW

Signature space available for rent - Got to pay the bills somehow

by Buc Wild on Dec 23, 2009 9:11 AM EST reply actions  

I'm with you, but....

I think the point here is that rich have certainly gotten richer this offseason. The Yanks have improved. The Sox may have improved (probably depends on Jason Bay and who’s playing LF for them this year), and the Rays…well, Soriano & Shoppach should help, but they’re certainly not Vazquez & Lackey.

On the other hand, I think the Rays under-achieved last year, and the Yanks over-achieved. I was amazed that those old guys kept it together all season, and will be overly amazed if it happens again this year. I can’t see Posada & Jeter putting up the same numbers they did last year. Which David Ortiz do the Sox have, and who are they replacing Bay with? Which BJ do we have, and can any of our starters really step up and be that ace…which I was hoping for last year?

We’re not going away, but this off season is like all the rest in the AL East (and really most of baseball), the rich get richer.

by TallMatt on Dec 23, 2009 9:12 AM EST reply actions  

Shoppach may not seem like much

But the marginal gain is great. The same can be said for losing the last man in the pen and adding Soriano. In terms of marginal gain, we have done well.

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Dec 23, 2009 9:30 AM EST up reply actions  

Don't forget about the Zobie/Barty regression

I look forward to seeing what Longo can do this year, hopefully he’s healthy and can recognize the down and away bendy stuff.

I'm a writer.

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 23, 2009 9:37 AM EST up reply actions  

I would expect A-Rod to be better next year.

He’s the type (all-time great) that agaes better than most, and he won’t be coming off a rough hip surgery. He also is so clutch and leadery now too.

by rglass44 on Dec 23, 2009 12:03 PM EST up reply actions  

DAGGER

I still am baffled that she was with him. It infuriates me.

by rglass44 on Dec 23, 2009 12:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Clutching elsewhere perhaps?

I do think the aging regression curve is a variable that differs by players. Sure, average players are cooked by age 35, but these guys aren’t average, and we’ve seen plenty of examples of outstanding players holding value well into their late 30’s.

What does crack me up is RedSox fans using this argument, conveniently ignoring that across current projected 25 man rosters they’re at least as old as NYY.

Anyway – I think you guys have a legit shot at catching them.

by nyyfaninlaaland on Dec 23, 2009 7:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I think you can argue Jeter/A-Rod can age better.

I’m not sold on Posada. 37-year-old catchers? Eh, I can’t get put a lot of faith in him keeping this up throughout the contact.

by R.J. Anderson on Dec 23, 2009 8:04 PM EST up reply actions  

i think that Jeter and A-Rod have a few good years left but you are right about Posada

I think being 37 AND being a catcher will allow the injuries to catch up on him

--Gerald Wallace is the best player the Bobcats will have..... EVER
--Someone should slap Larry Brown and bring him back to reality..

by raysfan81 on Dec 24, 2009 1:32 PM EST up reply actions  

How much is Zobrist actually due to regress?

Seems like him being an .850-.900OPS 2nd baseman with good defense is an ok place to regress to.

Bartlett has been hitting well since the 2nd half of 2008, definitely due to come down in SLG though.

by twenty5psi on Dec 23, 2009 4:45 PM EST up reply actions  

But then there is an ALE adjustment

We need to compare our “wins” to the Sox and Yanks to see where we stand, but 95 is a tough # for all 3 teams to actually hit.

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Dec 23, 2009 9:39 AM EST up reply actions  

All 3 teams won't hit it.

And I don’t think the situation has changed any from the start of last year. The Yankees look amazingly dangerous, while the Red Sox look significantly less so.

I miss George Steinbrenner. He was the man responsible for keeping the Yankees competitive.

by kericr on Dec 23, 2009 9:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Agree

One deserving team will not make it. Once the random noise kicks in, its almost a 3 way tossup.

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Dec 23, 2009 9:43 AM EST up reply actions  

3 way? THERE'S ONLY TWO!

But yea that was basically my point. All three teams are very good and while one may have the advantage over the other right now, all three should be very good all season when injuries/random variance are added. Just because the Yankees/Red Sox made additions to their rotations doesn’t mean the Rays are just to be tossed aside. We didn’t need to make a big improvement in our rotation.

www.draysbay.com, www.beyondtheboxscore.com, Twitter @trancel

by Tommy Rancel on Dec 23, 2009 9:57 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

you know what would be great?

The Yankees spending all this money and then not even getting to the post-season. That would be a classic

--Gerald Wallace is the best player the Bobcats will have..... EVER
--Someone should slap Larry Brown and bring him back to reality..

by raysfan81 on Dec 24, 2009 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

When I saw this article last night

I tried to give it a fair shake, but when I got to the part where he just based his comparisons on starting pitchers, I just rolled my eyes and stopped reading.

I even thought to myself, “Should I fanshot this on DRB?” No I said, we don’t need to read this dreck.

I miss George Steinbrenner. He was the man responsible for keeping the Yankees competitive.

by kericr on Dec 23, 2009 9:22 AM EST reply actions  

Finally someone has the balls to tell it like it is

You go, Rosie!!! The Rays don’t have a chance, guess we’ll have to play out the string anyway to see what happens.

I'm a writer.

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 23, 2009 9:36 AM EST reply actions  

YES, PREPARE FOR THE FUTURE!!

--Gerald Wallace is the best player the Bobcats will have..... EVER
--Someone should slap Larry Brown and bring him back to reality..

by raysfan81 on Dec 23, 2009 11:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes.

I miss George Steinbrenner. He was the man responsible for keeping the Yankees competitive.

by kericr on Dec 23, 2009 10:48 AM EST up reply actions  

FreeZo

Not sure if you saw this, http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/pitcher-contact-and-strikeouts-in-2009/#comments, but it might be a good time to re-hash the work that you and Matthan did regarding eK%.

I'm a writer.

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 23, 2009 10:53 AM EST reply actions  

I did see that.

That was all matthan’s work. I just borrowed his formula a few times.

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Dec 23, 2009 11:19 AM EST up reply actions  

Where did you find the component data?

Foul% isn’t easy to find, but neither are most of the components.

I'm a writer.

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 23, 2009 11:33 AM EST up reply actions  

statcorner

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Dec 23, 2009 11:44 AM EST up reply actions  

Short on time as of late.

Maybe in the new year

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Dec 23, 2009 11:50 AM EST up reply actions  

I have about half the AL done on a game-by-game basis, but I over-wrote one of them

instead of saving it as a different name. After my fury subsided I really haven’t had much ambition to continue that look. Plus, I don’t think people put much stock in it.

I'm a writer.

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 23, 2009 12:18 PM EST up reply actions  

The Yankees are better than everyone else, but the Rays/Red Sox are pretty even.

Also, one of these is not like the other:

Now pitching for the Yankees in 2010: CC Sabathia, A.J. Burnett, Andy Pettitte and Javier Vazquez.

Now pitching for the Red Sox: Josh Beckett, John Lackey, Jon Lester and Clay Buchholz.

If he’s going to include Buchholz, then where’s Price and Davis? And Shields is basically Lackey.

by R.J. Anderson on Dec 23, 2009 11:40 AM EST reply actions  

This...

Unfortunately 3 of the top 4 or 5 teams in MLB are in the AL East. Maybe the Top 3 in all of MLB. The Rays, Sox, and yanks all have to play to their true talent levels if they want to make the postseason. Many of these other teams can go through rough patches throughout the season, and still make it. The Phillies would not have even made the playoffs in 2008 if they were in the AL East. Imagine Blanton, Moyer, etc. having to go through this division.

by td32 on Dec 23, 2009 11:53 AM EST up reply actions  

xFIP helps him because of regressing his homer rate.

That’s because now he just says ‘EFF IT!!! I’M THROWIN HEAT!!!!1" That isn’t likely to change, so I doubt his HR-rate regresses too much in that park.

The other two (FIP and tRA) show a bit of a dropoff since his steller 2007. Is he betetr than anyone on our staff? Probably. He isn’t that much better, and I’d expect that trend to continue.

by rglass44 on Dec 23, 2009 12:12 PM EST up reply actions  

How so?

On-field at least. If you throw out contracts, you would rather have Shields in ’10 over Lackey?

Most of there rate stats have been fairly constant except for HR/9 and I’ll take Lackey’s three-year history over his career high last year.

by tallyray on Dec 23, 2009 3:31 PM EST up reply actions  

you can't forget lackey's injury history over the past few years

he’s missed 75 games the past two years from elbow injuries and you want a player with a history of elbow injuries?

--Gerald Wallace is the best player the Bobcats will have..... EVER
--Someone should slap Larry Brown and bring him back to reality..

by raysfan81 on Dec 24, 2009 1:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Rosenthal is a BAD columnist

This is just another very bad columnist with no brain. Better yet just a JERK

Whenever Rosenthal writes, Everyone should respond by not reading.

by CharlieRay on Dec 23, 2009 11:59 AM EST reply actions  

good point

I usually try to ignore him and Buster Olney

--Gerald Wallace is the best player the Bobcats will have..... EVER
--Someone should slap Larry Brown and bring him back to reality..

by raysfan81 on Dec 24, 2009 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Trade payrolls

Where would the new york millionaires be if their payroll was 60 million?

behind the Orioles! That’s where!!!

by dram57 on Dec 23, 2009 1:13 PM EST reply actions  

Why would it be?

They make over 300M+ a year, kudos to them for reinvesting a substantial amount of that into their team instead of into their wallets.

I'm a writer.

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 23, 2009 1:23 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

ONE DAY, WE WILL BE A FINANCIAL JUGGERNAUT.

I mean, St. Pete has just as much to offer as New York!!!!!!

by Samwise Sutty on Dec 23, 2009 1:25 PM EST up reply actions  

St Pete

Concrete jungle where dreams are made of.

Jesus that’s a horrible sentence. Even for a lyric.

Mira Sorvino...Paul Walker...T-Pain...Fall 2010...HEADSTONE MAFIA, A LOVE STORY OF REVENGE. "5/5 stars!!!" - DRB User "Andy Hellicksonstine"

by PlayOnWords on Dec 23, 2009 2:43 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

You can't be that out of touch.

Mira Sorvino...Paul Walker...T-Pain...Fall 2010...HEADSTONE MAFIA, A LOVE STORY OF REVENGE. "5/5 stars!!!" - DRB User "Andy Hellicksonstine"

by PlayOnWords on Dec 23, 2009 3:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Why are you even responding to this?

I miss George Steinbrenner. He was the man responsible for keeping the Yankees competitive.

by kericr on Dec 23, 2009 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I knew Ken was a dumbass

when a few months ago I saw an article saying the Red Sox should trade for Miguel Cabrera for I think it was like Lars and like 2 other prospects, no Buchholz,no Ellsbury,no Westmoreland, pretty much Detoit getting screwed. Thats when I stopped reading his work

the question master

by thedudeofdudes on Dec 23, 2009 2:48 PM EST reply actions  

Is that much worse than the D'Backs trade?

I get the Rosenthal hate, but trades like the one listed above actually happen. Anything can happen when one team is willing to take on so much cash.

by tallyray on Dec 23, 2009 3:33 PM EST up reply actions  

The Tigers were the one looking to shed payroll, and they came out looking pretty good with the prospects they got in return.

I don’t see how this is comparable, the Diamondbacks simply look incompetent. They’re not shedding payroll OR getting better talent in return.

I miss George Steinbrenner. He was the man responsible for keeping the Yankees competitive.

by kericr on Dec 23, 2009 5:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Sorry to go OT but

Anyone know how to figure out ML service time? I want a update on the Rays and Cot’s hasn’t updated

Fire and Ice: Rafael Soriano and J.P Howell.......with their side kick Grant the aussie Balfour!

by joeybw on Dec 23, 2009 4:10 PM EST reply actions  

Sorry to go OT but

Anyone know how to figure out ML service time? I want a update on the Rays and Cot’s hasn’t updated

Fire and Ice: Rafael Soriano and J.P Howell.......with their side kick Grant the aussie Balfour!

by joeybw on Dec 23, 2009 4:54 PM EST reply actions  

sorry for double post

Fire and Ice: Rafael Soriano and J.P Howell.......with their side kick Grant the aussie Balfour!

by joeybw on Dec 23, 2009 4:59 PM EST up reply actions  

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