What's Next for the Rays With Kelvim Escobar Off the Market?
For those, like myself, just now catching up on the baseball world's happenings since Wednesday, go ahead and note that Kelvim Escobar is a New York Met.
Losing out on Escobar is a little disappointing. Mutual interest existed. I mean, he knew the name of the Rays newest relief acquisition. He was totally digging us. Of course he also held goo-goo eyes for many members of the New York Mets; including Henry Blanco and Francisco Rodriguez, of whom he now serves as the right-hand relief man. Why the Mets over the Rays? Beats me. Money, assurance of a Major League contract, and the demographics of the Mets clubhouse probably weighed in, but that's just speculation on my part.
The bad news is that a reliever cheaper than he should be is off the market. The good news is that almost every reliever on the market seems to be in danger of falling into that grouping. Some of the guys we've been pushing since the Rays playoff probability reached single digits are still around (Kiko Calero, Brendan Donnelly, and Joaquin Benoit) and the obvious trade targets remain (Mark Lowe and Jason Frasor) but one name that surfaces with a depression on prices is Octavio Dotel.
I have no reason to believe the Rays are interested in Dotel except for the fact that he fits the bill of what the Rays look for in relievers. He turned 36 recently and delivers the baseball from the right side of his 6' tall frame. A member of the White Sox pen over the last two seasons he split 2007 between Kansas City and Atlanta and was a member of the Yankees in 2006, albeit barely.
Dotel does not throw the baseball as fiercely as he did back in Houston. His heater still sits at 93 MPH and has good rise with a little run towards righties. He throws a cutter as well which is clocked a few ticks lower and compliments his low-80s slider well. Each pitch registered at least 8% whiffs with his slider coming in at nearly 19%, his fastball at 11%, and his cutter at 9%. He'll occasionally toss a curveball or change-up, but neither is a large part of his arsenal.
He's always gotten outs through means of sky delivery, but last year's 51.3% fly ball rate is a bit higher than most recent years and he's going to allow some homers. At times, Dotel has the tendency to lose the zone. Although, for the most part, double digit strikeout rates per-nine make up it. Dotel did gain Type-A status and Chicago decided against offering arbitration, opting instead to sign J.J. Putz.
Again, I'm not saying the Rays are or will be interested, but I can't blame them if they place a few phone calls his way between now and February.
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What do you mean, "What's next?"
We have Shields, Garza, Price, Davis and Niemann.
Me babe, steppin' out
Into the night, into the light
Did you read the piece at all?
Because this had nothing to do with the rotation whatsoever.
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 28, 2009 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
Then why were we even after Kelvim Escobar?
We already signed Rafael Soriano.
Me babe, steppin' out
Into the night, into the light
by Orlando Rays on Dec 28, 2009 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
Are you drunk?
I'm a Brett Favre honk so FUCK YOU!
by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Dec 28, 2009 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
signing Escobar as a CL or a SP at this point would of been retarded
He was low risk/high reward MR
Fire and Ice: Rafael Soriano and J.P Howell.......with their side kick Grant the aussie Balfour!
You're allowed to have more than one reliever.
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 28, 2009 1:41 PM EST up reply actions
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
I miss George Steinbrenner. He was the man responsible for keeping the Yankees competitive.
I guess the Rays are happy with Howell, Wheeler and Balfour as set up men
If you are of the thinking that Sonnanstine can be the long man the Rays could be indeed done shopping for the 2010 bullpen. Cormier could see time in more critical situations in 2010. I still like many of us would like to see another veteran right hander but can live with what they have now.
Winston Abreu
Does anyone think he is in contention for a MR spot? I do not. If the Ray`s thought enough of him to put him on the 40 man then I might have made a argument on his behalf. I don`t think he is held in very high regard by the Ray`s. His 2009 MiLB stats are off the chart but he has never put it together at the MLB level as of yet.
How can you have any pudding if you haven`t eaten your meat? I`m still waiting...
by Barnese and Bailey Circus on Dec 28, 2009 11:01 AM EST reply actions
Rays have signed Abreu like 3 times in the last year
Obviously they like him a little bit.
Abreu reminds me of Balfour ‘08. Not that I think he’ll have Balfour ’08’s success, but that he might have put some troubles behind him and can be useful. If we don’t sign anyone else (unlikely in my opinion) then he’ll be one of the options for a spot. If he doesn’t make it out of spring, he’ll be one of the first options from Durham in the event of injury/ineffectiveness.
www.draysbay.com, www.beyondtheboxscore.com, Twitter @trancel
by Tommy Rancel on Dec 28, 2009 11:06 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Nice comparison
Just remembering the greatness that was Scott Dohman beating him out in ST. Balfour then put up some awesome numbers in Durham (as has Abreu) before getting his shot.
How can you have any pudding if you haven`t eaten your meat? I`m still waiting...
by Barnese and Bailey Circus on Dec 28, 2009 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
At no time has Grant Balfour given up 2 HR/9. That is Winnie's ML HR/9
He was better when he had more separation between his FB and CH, but the only time I want him on the diamond is when Los is in the HR derby this year.
I'm a writer.
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 28, 2009 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
Winston has 44 Major League innings.
If you buy into that as a true measure of talent then I have bad news for you.
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 28, 2009 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
It happened, it might not be true talent, but on the Dinger Continuum, he's on the right
I'm a writer.
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 28, 2009 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
And Lance Carter, all-star also once happened.
I’m willing to give a guy who has less than 50 major league innings and improving minor league numbers a shot. He’d be the 5th or 6th option in the pen. He doesn’t need to be an ace.
www.draysbay.com, www.beyondtheboxscore.com, Twitter @trancel
by Tommy Rancel on Dec 28, 2009 12:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
So we don't have better options for leverage innings?
If we rock a pen of 7, he’s about 9th with better options around. I never see the big fuss about calling an extraneous piece what he is. Not trying to be argumentative, but I hope he never throws a pitch for us, and will gladly eat crow if he has any stretch of dominance at the ML level.
I'm a writer.
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 28, 2009 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
so the Duke had a ugly 09 season
Does it worry you THAT much to have a guy like Sonnanstine/Thayer/eventually McGee as the 7th option?
I doubt his command is just gone like that, it should come back and out of the pen, we may finally see Sonny throw 90,91 mph which would be odd but kinda cool
Fire and Ice: Rafael Soriano and J.P Howell.......with their side kick Grant the aussie Balfour!
you were talking about Winny
sorry, so its misplaced but thats my argument for the pen being good already
Fire and Ice: Rafael Soriano and J.P Howell.......with their side kick Grant the aussie Balfour!
Duchscherer? Not sure how he's relevant to this discussion.
You seem to point out that we have a bunch of options. Yes, I would prefer to see Sonny, Thayer, Hellickson, Hernandez before we give Abreu a chance to get a fan hurt in the stands.
I'm a writer.
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 28, 2009 6:25 PM EST up reply actions
i thought sonny's nickname was Duke
Fire and Ice: Rafael Soriano and J.P Howell.......with their side kick Grant the aussie Balfour!
What does Dale Thayer possess (in your mind) that Abreu does not?
Thayer’s HR/9 is 1.98 in 14 innings, his fastball is slower, and without checking, I’m pretty sure his numbers in Durham aren’t as impressive as Abreu’s.
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 28, 2009 7:04 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not sure where you got the fastball numbers, but Joe Lefkowitz's pitch f/x tool has him
at 92.529 mph on the fastball, while he has Abreu sitting at 91.814. He isn’t afraid to throw the fastball (73% to Abreu’s 55.5%) while getting almost twice the lateral movement at a small expense of the vertical. (Abreu x= -4.64, y= 10.17/ Thayer x= -8.60, y= 8.50). It seems like Abreu has a legit slider, but that’s all that he really has going for him. Perhaps RZ could take a look at the slgcon numbers, those are kind of out of my element at the moment.
I'm a writer.
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 28, 2009 7:54 PM EST up reply actions
FG's velocity charts have Abreu topping out higher.
There’s more, right? Or are you going to carry this silly Abreu hatred further?
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 28, 2009 8:43 PM EST up reply actions
Thayer has a 90% contact rate against in those 14 innings.
Abreu’s is like 72%.
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 28, 2009 8:45 PM EST up reply actions
I'll carry it to my grave if need be
He’s not the first guy to light up AAA and get lit up in the Majors. I like his slider and that’s about it.
I'm a writer.
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 28, 2009 9:47 PM EST up reply actions
And yet he didn't get as lit up as Thayer, who you seem to like.
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 28, 2009 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
They're interchangeable fodder, I was more impressed with Thayer, but
that’s like saying that the $4 bottle of wine is better than the $3 bottle.
I'm a writer.
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 28, 2009 10:29 PM EST up reply actions
And? You have to regress those innings heavily.
Look at his Triple-A track record, the homer bug isn’t prevalent through a much larger sample size.
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 28, 2009 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
John Smoltz allowed 8 HR in 40 IP with the Red Sox.
Clearly the old man sucks now.
Oh wait.
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 28, 2009 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
The NL west has just as much talent as the AL East.
I miss George Steinbrenner. He was the man responsible for keeping the Yankees competitive.
I'm fucking clownshoes.
I got him confused with Greg Maddux somehow. I’m just going to ignore this topic.
I miss George Steinbrenner. He was the man responsible for keeping the Yankees competitive.
They all look the same to you, ain't that right "kericr"?
I'm a Brett Favre honk so FUCK YOU!
by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Dec 28, 2009 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
He did throw against the Pads.
Regardless, this is what I’m referencing.
http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/article/sample_size_and_granularity_of_data/
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 28, 2009 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
Over his last 28 innings, Howell's has a HR/9 of 1.93
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
by FreeZorilla on Dec 28, 2009 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
He's also shown that that is not his true level
We’ve seen high’s and lows that give an idea of true talent. With Abreu we’ve only seen lows, giving no idea about what his upside could be, if he has any.
I'm a writer.
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 28, 2009 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
Sure, but if that had been Howell's first 28 would you have the same reaction?
This guy has brutalized AAA
Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla
You must not think much of David Price either.
Since the minor leagues don’t exist.
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 28, 2009 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
Jay Sherman and I agree that he stinks
I'm a writer.
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 28, 2009 7:56 PM EST up reply actions
I'd prefer to have a guy that's more rubber-armed, even if it's at a slight expense of talent.
Our high leverage should be set, let’s find a guy that can warm up every game and not have it take a toll on him.
I'm a writer.
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 28, 2009 11:12 AM EST reply actions
Russ Springer, Joe Beimel?
I'm a writer.
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 28, 2009 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
Unless AF can move some money (aka, PtB)
I can’t see him signing anyone else of significance. Maybe some vets on minor league contracts like Izzy and Kennedy before last season.
1 year/1 mil gonna do it?
I know he wants more than the 500K that the Marlins gave him but I haven’t heard much about him
Fire and Ice: Rafael Soriano and J.P Howell.......with their side kick Grant the aussie Balfour!
He probably wants a multiple year deal.
Brendan Donnelly and Joaquin Benoit are more likely to be NRI types than Calero.
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 28, 2009 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
well how about the Ray's fav type of contract?
1 year with an option
Fire and Ice: Rafael Soriano and J.P Howell.......with their side kick Grant the aussie Balfour!
Rays Spring Training, where old vets come to die.
I'm a Brett Favre honk so FUCK YOU!
by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Dec 28, 2009 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
OT here
I see Jacob McGee only has two options left. Does this mean McGee will only have one option left if Rays send him down to the minors during ST? Depending how he looks in ST it just might be worth a shot to have McGee join the 25 man roster. Having someone in the organization with no MLB experience and just one option really puts a team in a tough situation.
He'd have to show consistency and control with his pitches, that he was only starting to show before the injury.
He’s really a one-pitch pony with some show-me stuff off of it, but if he can show command in spring, I would think they would want to work him in somewhere for the reasons you outlined. I’d still like to see him at Durham, where he has never pitched, transitioning to the bullpen. If he takes to it like a duck to water, there may still be time to bring him up for the stretch run. I don’t see how they can avoid burning the option.
I'm a writer.
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 28, 2009 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
Kiko please
I love you Reid: Reid Brignac is playing winter ball in Mexico working on his defense at second base and his pitch selection at the plate. [St. Pete Times]
His only chance is to beat out Puffy and if he does great at 2B, they can carry him, Zobrist is good everywhere anyway
Fire and Ice: Rafael Soriano and J.P Howell.......with their side kick Grant the aussie Balfour!
It has been 4 days now
and no one knows if the Phillies signed Baez or MacDougal. If they signed Mac, I would love bringing Baez back for MR
Fire and Ice: Rafael Soriano and J.P Howell.......with their side kick Grant the aussie Balfour!
Baez gets outpitched by the buffet line.
"...also I'll brush my teeth and remember to turn off the stars at night and put the hyena out." ERNEST HEMINGWAY
as a closer
He is a solid MR
Fire and Ice: Rafael Soriano and J.P Howell.......with their side kick Grant the aussie Balfour!
reply fail
Fire and Ice: Rafael Soriano and J.P Howell.......with their side kick Grant the aussie Balfour!
he is a last resort for me
Vikings 4 the superbowl
Quick! Now's are chance to sign Simontacchi!
Despite his washed up status, Venezuelan scouts say he outpitched Escobar. We’d also be gods to the Italian National Team.
"...also I'll brush my teeth and remember to turn off the stars at night and put the hyena out." ERNEST HEMINGWAY
Yodascout?
I'm a Brett Favre honk so FUCK YOU!
by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Dec 28, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
would Seattle or Toronto be interested in Brignac?
and could just him land us Frasor or Lowe(I would rather have frasor)
the question master
At low prices like that, everyone would be interested.
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 28, 2009 8:44 PM EST up reply actions
well then what would it take to get Frasor?
the question master
by thedudeofdudes on Dec 28, 2009 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't mind either one of them
But I think we’d have a better chance at Frasor than Lowe. Either one begins with Brignac and we’d probably have to throw in a low level arm.
Brignac and J Cruz be enough,or to much?
the question master
by thedudeofdudes on Dec 28, 2009 9:01 PM EST up reply actions
That could work
Though I’m not sure I’m ready to deal Brignac for a reliever.
A top notch defensive SS...
That could be an average offensive player with 6 years of team control is worth far mor then Frasor.
where is he going to play?
SS-Bartlett then Beckham(seeing he stays there)
2B-Zobrist and rodriguez,aybar
3B-Longo,aybar
OF-Crawford,Upton,Jennings,Joyce,Kapler,Zobrist
his bats not good enough for DH and his D is to good for that anyway
maybe a bench role filling in for an injured player here and there.AAA would do him no good besides more work on D.
What are Bartlett’s,Frasor’s,and Lowe’s contract statuses right now?
the question master
by thedudeofdudes on Dec 28, 2009 11:49 PM EST up reply actions
nah fuck that
Beckham will be in High A and is still a huge question mark, Barty has 2 years left here at most. His D keeps getting worse.
Right now, Brignac is A+ defense at SS, well above average at 2B, showed some life in his bat late last year and next time he is sent down, he will have 0 options. He needs to work his ass off to be at least league average vs lefties and I see him as the long term SS. If Beckham DOES make it, he can play 2B or OF (like BJ)
I would trade Barty. Mariners are in extreme win now mode, they can put Bartlett at 2B, get rid of Lopez and give us Lowe and a good prospect. We have our SS in Briggy and a safe net in Rodriguez and Zobrist. Balfour, Lowe, Howell and Soriano gives us 4 guys that I trust to save a game. And I think everyone would be down for their worst 2 being Cormier and Wheeler. Then there is Choate but as long as Maddon only uses him vs lefties, he is very solid also
Fire and Ice: Rafael Soriano and J.P Howell.......with their side kick Grant the aussie Balfour!
Bartlett to the Red`s ...
next year in part of a package for Votto or Alonso.
How can you have any pudding if you haven`t eaten your meat? I`m still waiting...
by Barnese and Bailey Circus on Dec 29, 2009 1:30 AM EST up reply actions
next year he will prob be owed 5+ mil and the Reds were too cheap to even keep Gomes
Fire and Ice: Rafael Soriano and J.P Howell.......with their side kick Grant the aussie Balfour!
They need a SS and we need a 1B
and like you, I doubt we trade Brignac.
How can you have any pudding if you haven`t eaten your meat? I`m still waiting...
by Barnese and Bailey Circus on Dec 29, 2009 1:48 AM EST up reply actions
They need a SS but they have cash issues
when do Arroyo and Harang come off the books?
Reds aren’t the smartest team around and may choose to keep the proven Votto but I still think they will try Votto or Alonso in LF first (both are way too out of shape for the OF)
Fire and Ice: Rafael Soriano and J.P Howell.......with their side kick Grant the aussie Balfour!
ah with options, they will both be gone next seson for 2 mil each
Hey, maybe….
Fire and Ice: Rafael Soriano and J.P Howell.......with their side kick Grant the aussie Balfour!
Good match as far as needs.
Let AF do his magic. Walt won`t know what hit him.
How can you have any pudding if you haven`t eaten your meat? I`m still waiting...
by Barnese and Bailey Circus on Dec 29, 2009 2:01 AM EST up reply actions
I might prefe Lowe or Votto
Waiting for Alonso, as awesome as he will be, doesn’t fit the WIN NOW approach.
Fire and Ice: Rafael Soriano and J.P Howell.......with their side kick Grant the aussie Balfour!
The point isn't that we can't or won't trade him, it's that trading him for a reliever is silly.
Non-elite relievers really aren’t worth much.
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 29, 2009 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
Wonder what it would cost for Votto?
Possibly Brignac (they are rebuilding and would rather have Briggy over Bartlett) and a B level arm like Barnese?
by BossmanJunior333 on Dec 29, 2009 3:57 AM EST reply actions
I really want to keep Reid
which is why a team like the Mariners are better to trade with, they want the awesome-now player. And there is always the Cubs, they dont know what the hell they are doing, the Twins who need a SS can bring him back. Maybe the A’s, don’t know if they have the cash but they are absolutely loaded with young, good talent.
Fire and Ice: Rafael Soriano and J.P Howell.......with their side kick Grant the aussie Balfour!
I'm pretty sure the M's are quite content with Jumping Jack Flash
I’d love to trade Barty to the Jays for Brett Wallace. In a heartbeat.
I'm a writer.
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 29, 2009 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
Jays are not gonna take anyone making money
they would love Brignac but not Bartlett
Fire and Ice: Rafael Soriano and J.P Howell.......with their side kick Grant the aussie Balfour!
And you know this how?
They just paid 2.75 for A-Gon for the next year, for a few million more they could have a real SS.
I'm a writer.
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 30, 2009 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
I was saying trade Brignac
not Bartlett, if we cant trade Brignac I still want to keep Barty seeing as he has proven he can hit and play D in the majors and just let him become a free agent once his contracts up.
Would Aneury and Cruz be able to get us anything if we included both in a deal for a reliver or position player?
the question master

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