Report: Reid Brignac "Primary Trade Target" Of Pittsburgh Pirates
by Tommy Rancel on Dec 4, 2009 7:12 PM EST
48 comments
John Perrotto is reporting that once again, Reid Brignac has captured the attention of the Pittsburgh Pirates front office. Perrotto says that once the winter meetings kick off in Indianapolis next week, Brignac will be the primary trade target for the Buccos. Their affinity for Brignac dates back to the summer of 2008 when the Rays and Pirates discussed a potential swap of Brignac + for then Pirate, Jason Bay. The deal was even reported as done, but as you all know Bay ended up in Boston.
While Perrotto doesn't mention who the Rays asked for in return, he mentioned that the Pirates have tried to pass off closer Matt Capps and possibily have thrown around the idea of starter Zach Duke. Duke, an All Star in 2009, wouldn't make much sense for the Rays. Sure, he is young (26) and left-handed, but he'd probably the fifth or sixth best starter on the Rays without counting Jeremy Hellickson. He also made $2.2 million dollars last season and will defintely see a nice raise in arbitration with an all star appearance to his credit. The only way I see the Rays acquiring Duke is to flip for additional prospects.
Matt Capps had an ugly 2009 highlighted by his 5.80 ERA and his 4.90 FIP. Either number you choose to look at is ugly, but hey he had 27 saves! The good news is Capps appears to have broken a few mirrors and stepped on a few cracks at some point between the end of 2008 and beginning of 2009 and is in line for some regression. The biggest problem for Capps in 2009 was home runs. Allowing 10 home runs in 54.1 innings, he watched his HR/9 nearly double from 0.84 in '08 to 1.66 in 2009. This can be attributed to a HR/FB rate that also almost doubled from 6.8% to 13.5%. His BABIP also jumped nearly .100 points to .370
In 2007 and 2008, Capps proved to be an above average reliever. With some regression to the mean, he could be back to those levels in 2010. Like Duke, Capps is 26, however, he is under contract for 2009 at a reasonable $2.3 million with some incentives for games finished. The bad news is it is the final year of a two-year deal. Stuff wise, Capps sits in the mid 90s and throws a slider and a change-up. Despite the solid velocity, he doesn't strikeout many, but keeps his walks in check (career BB/9 1.66).
Obviously, I wouldn't agree to a Brignac for Capps deal straight up, but it could be a starting point. The fact that the Rays would be giving up more controlled Brignac years would mean the Pirates would need to sweeten the pot quite a bit.
0 recs |
48 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
umm unless it is a handfull of prospects I can't think of anyone on the pirates that I'd take for Brignac
realistically speaking assuming they aren’t giving us Alvarez.
Jennings, Hellickson, Davis, Brignac, Beckham, Moore > Your top 3
As far as Duke
He is good, young, cheap, a lefty and has no room in our rotation. Even Hellickson needs someone to get hurt. I don’t like having only 1 lefty but unless the deal got bigger where they get Niemann and Brignac and give us awesome prospects with Duke, no thanks.
Give me a CC long term deal, please!
I can sleep fine tonight, knowing that the Rays FO isn't stupid.
Gary Williams for President!
Put Rose in the Hall of Fame
Doumit made sense before Shoppach
but now? Unless the Rays are thinking about hedging their bets and having Doumit as a backup 1B/DH in addition to his catching duties, but that doesn’t seem like the best idea.
Brignac is an excellent insurance policy for Bartlett (injury; no repeat performance, etc) and if they get rid of him, middle infield becomes the team’s weakest depth area.
I really like Doumit, but now that we have Shoppach, it doesn’t make sense…does it?
by raysfaninminnesota on Dec 4, 2009 8:22 PM EST reply actions
I dunno
Matt Capps was always awesome til last season, his save totals are low but the dude is a pirate, I think if we got Doumit (C, 1B, DH, kiss of death to Navi) and Capps for Brignac, we should do it and hope Barty wasn’t a fluke.
but damn, I love Briggys defense….
Give me a CC long term deal, please!
also, Beckham is still years away but
If he goes on the 15 day DL again (Barty), we can put S-Rod or Zobrist there just during the injury, I think we are finally loaded in the MIF
Give me a CC long term deal, please!
BABIP issues + HR/FB
Prime candidate for regression
www.draysbay.com
by Tommy Rancel on Dec 4, 2009 10:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Too bad
Sanchez and Black arent eligible since they were just drafted in 09
by BossmanJunior333 on Dec 4, 2009 9:53 PM EST reply actions
How many people think the Rays will commit
$3.55 millon in 2010 and another $5.1 million in 2011 to 29 year old Ryan Doumit, even should they think that he becomes the everyday catcher, and even if they decide to dump Shoppach and Navarro-or even if they could trade them for something useful?
those prices are not too high
if he actually was a starting catcher…and producing like he did in 2008 as an All-Star. If the Rays believe he could reproduce that level, then yes, those numbers are not too much. What Doumit makes in ’10 is what Wheeler is making.
Brignac won’t be a Pirate, no matter how much they want him, because the teams just don’t match up well for a deal. But in terms of cost, 3.55mil or 5.1 mil is not a bad cost…if everyday catcher and if Rays didn’t trade for Shoppach.
by raysfaninminnesota on Dec 4, 2009 10:12 PM EST up reply actions
I don't see it.
He would be the 4th highest salaried player on the Rays in 2010, and while for a catcher his career numbers are pretty good, I don’t see why the Rays would be more confident that he could produce more than Shoppach will, or even Shoppach plus an inexpensive lefty backup. After all, in terms of PAs, 2008 is something of the outlier, and although 2007 was good, those numbers reflect only 279 PAs while his other 3 years are far less impressive. And he certainly does not walk much, something Shoppach does. In fact, in some ways their careers are similar, so why go with the more expensive, 2 yr. option?
I don’t know where he would be in the salary structure in 2011, but the fact that Shields and Longoria will be getting a bit more than they are in 2010 plus the likelihood that the Rays will have some decisions to make about other key elements on the team via arbitration and hoped for extensions probably means the overall budget increases, so a $5.1 million catcher of Doumit’s dubious quality is a pretty big risk.
Of course, they will be rid of Burrell’s contract and have choices to make about Wheeler, Pena and Crawford, so there may be more salary space, but it still seems to me a gamble more than a risk to acquire Doumit when Shoppach is here. I know I offered the alternative of dealing Shoppach in my question, but I think the point is that they are unlikely to do that to acquire Doumit, and would have no reason to acquire him at those prices if they keep Shoppach.
If the Rays didn't commit 2 mil to Zaun they certainly won't tie up ~9 mil to doumit.
Especially after acquiring Shoppach.
www.draysbay.com
by Tommy Rancel on Dec 4, 2009 10:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I wouldn't rule out the possibility of a three-way deal if the Pirates are so enamored with Briggy.
The Rays get a catcher from team X.
The Pirates get Brignac.
Team X gets spects/capps from Pittsburgh.
Sign lady must die.
No thanks, unless that catcher is Joe Mauer, Brian McCann, or Matt Wieters.
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 4, 2009 10:27 PM EST up reply actions
Towles and spects?
Sign lady must die.
by EminenceFront on Dec 4, 2009 10:30 PM EST up reply actions
Shoppach takes Towles spot.
And the Astros don’t have prospects.
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 4, 2009 10:47 PM EST up reply actions
Yeesh, overrate Brignac much?
Even if he’s as good of a defender as some say he is (keeping in mind that the numbers say he’s a pretty average defender), unless something funky happens, he’ll never be a particularly good hitter. I realize he’s the eventual replacement for Bartlett, but if he sucks, we’ll still just need to sign someone else to play the position anyway, and will have wasted a year on him where we could have had a higher WAR player in his spot.
A few posts ago you were advocating signing a catcher for over a million dollars because he had an identical righty platoon split to Kelly Shoppach. Obviously there are other guys who you think could bring value to the team, and I just don’t see Brignac bringing a ton of value to this team, frankly. If we’re willing to have a slightly above replacement level guy playing short for a few years, fine, but teams don’t tend to win world series when they have regulars fitting that description.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I will argue with your statement that teams don't tend to win
World Series with regular shortstops who are slightly above replacement level. Since 2000, Arizona won with Womack (64 OPS+), Chicago with Uribe (85), St Louis with Eckstein (81) and Boston with Lugo (65). I suppose you might argue that for a SS, an 81-85 OPS+ is pretty good, but in Uribe’s case his career OPS+ of 83 is somewhat artificial in that 2 years at 111 raise it from its normal seasonal average in the 70s.
That aside, I don’t think it is so much a case of overrating Brignac as of not being satisfied with the return of a reliever or a lesser prospect for him. After all, regardless of your pessimistic view of his offensive possibilities, he remains in the top 10 of most Rays’ prospect lists in a strong system, whether you agree with that ranking or not.
Project Prospect still ranks him as the 10th best SS prospect in baseball. Baseball America had him 4th in the Rays system to begin 2009; Sickels had him #10, so he may have fallen out this year although that is not certain. At Rays Prospects, the 4 evaluators had him at 6-5-5-4 in their 2010 preview which averaged to a tie for 4th in their system.* With an increasingly expensive Bartlett, why should the Rays deal him for something less than that?
*Here is what they say about Brignac: “Neither of the Tim Beckham and Reid Brignac shortstop brigade did a whole lot to help their stock, but neither was so bad they’ll fall far in the rankings.”
I am not really arguing with your assessment of Brignac, although I see more hope than you for a SS prospect with good doubles power and possibly home run power as well who has dramatically cut his K rate even if his BB rate remains poor, and who is known for being a tremendously hard worker who, whether his defense is as good as advertised or just ordinary, apparently worked hard enough to raise his reputation in that regard immensely. (Please do not show that 80 word sentence to my old English teacher. His heart could not take it.)
Yes. I actually think Brignac is equal to and would net Joe Mauer.
Good grief.
by R.J. Anderson on Dec 5, 2009 10:19 AM EST up reply actions
That's not what I thought
But surely there are other catchers out there who are upgrades over Shoppach as a righty, and who bring more value than what I perceive Brignac’s value as being.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Jesus fuck re: the Rotoworld update.
The FO/Maddy Madds must really think Navi was some kind of bad luck victim and not a real, total catastrophe as a baseball player.
Mira Sorvino...Paul Walker...T-Pain...Fall 2010...HEADSTONE MAFIA, A LOVE STORY OF REVENGE. "5/5 stars!!!" - DRB User "Andy Hellicksonstine"
They gain nothing by saying "Navi sucks"
Sure, its true, but there’s no competitive advantage to saying we have no use for this guy and are gonna drop him next week. Even if every team knows it, there may be some team willing to give up something to hold Navi’s rights.
www.draysbay.com
by Tommy Rancel on Dec 4, 2009 11:06 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
His BABIP on GB was absolutley ridiculously low (like .080 or something along those lines). I realize he is slow, but jesus that should go up a bit
I realize it is nitpicking, but still.
DO NOT WANT
to trade Briggy.
we really don’t need whatever they’re offering.
wouldn’t mind Cutch, but we have cutch 2.0 in Jennings… hell, DEEZY might be even better
Yeah dont see how we match up well
A three team trade might be a better option. For example Pit getting briggy, team X getting Capps and Rays getting team X first base or catching prospect
I dont dislike Capps and wouldnt mind getting him, but not for Briggy
by BossmanJunior333 on Dec 5, 2009 2:21 AM EST up reply actions
Who really wants Capps?
I realize he is a candidate for regression, but would someone really want to take a shot at that in the favor of ’spects.
Why do you kill threads????
by Some other guy who does not care on Dec 5, 2009 8:57 AM EST up reply actions
I don't want the Pirates to have Brignac.
I am still a little bitter about the Bay trade to be honest. We offered Brignac AND Niemann and they chose to go elsewhere. I say forget about what the Pirates want.
Blah!
by thebaddancingraysfan on Dec 5, 2009 7:07 AM EST reply actions
Opportunity to Add Burrell?
The Pirates might be enticed to add Burrell to a Brignac deal. The theory would be that he could hold down RF until Tabata is ready and if he performs they could trade him at the deadline. Throw in Navi too to team with Jaramillo behind the plate. If they REALLY want Brignac, give them Brignac, Burrell and Navarro for Doumit and Vazquez (to just help even out the salaries). Worth a try. Not that I am a big Doumit guy but I really don’t want to see Burrell back next year. The Pirates should be able to absorb his salary for one year and they get their long term SS. Also gives us a few million to work with.
I want to see Briggy next year in the majors
for the Rays
Gerald Wallace is the best player the Bobcats will have..... EVER
Barty vs LHP and Brignac vs RHP would be fun
but unless they decide to trade Barty, that isn’t happening
Give me a CC long term deal, please!
I have mixed feelings on trading Bartlett
but i know it would be hard for him to repeat last season so it would be nice for some team to overpay and give some decent players in return
--Gerald Wallace is the best player the Bobcats will have..... EVER
--Someone should slap Larry Brown and bring him back to reality..
I think that's a stretch. Pittsburgh isn't trying to add payroll.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
Well
The Pirates are looking to add payroll, but I don’t know if they would want to take on Pat either way. His contract is pretty bad.
Any shot at this Briggy thing re-igniting the pursuit of Jeff Clement since he's now in Pitt?
Clement .288/.374/497 vs RHP in 763 ABs. There are questions about him catching long-term, but he could also move to 1B if Pena is not retained after 2010. The Pirates are planning on giving him a shot at 1B this year.
Any deal that would include Burrell would be a stretch. I guess that is my point – for any team to get Brignac, they are going to have to stretch. No team wants to raise payroll bit the Pirates p’roll is sooooo low that they could pay Burrell for one year if they really want Brignac.
Use reply, homie.
And headers.
I don’t think Brignac is worth THAT much; Brignac is at least decent with the glove with a questionable bat. The Rays may think he’s a future all-star, but they could have put him ahead of Bartlett last year, and didn’t.
I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.
I don't think the FO thinks he's a future all-star
As much as they just don’t want to spend the money on a shortstop, and he’ll be cheap for a few years if nothing else.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
This
He only needs to wOBA around .322 to be an AL avg SS at the plate. It would be nice to have an All-Star, but I’ll take an average role player that allows us more liquidity.
I'm a writer.
by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 6, 2009 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
Among adding a young catcher, adding a GOOD arm or 2 and the CC talks
I wanna see the Rays field offers for Barty
Hell maybe get that young C and some good young relievers while at the same time getting some more money for CC.
Also not sure anyone takes him but a Pena trade would help big time for a CC deal
and last but not least, I will be sooooo happy if say……the Mets took Burrell. Aybar for DH or maybe even better, keep switching Zobrist, Joyce, Aybar, Rodriguez and Kapler between all the positions and DH
Give me a CC long term deal, please!
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on DRaysBay
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recent FanShots
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
