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Around SBN: Which Players Will Join The 3,000-Hit Club?

Tampa Bay Rays News and Rumors for December 8th: Carl Crawford for Carlos Quentin Swap Discussed, Brian Shouse Rejects Arbitration, Rays Offered Bobby Abreu Two Years, Interest in Matt Capps, and More

Carl Crawford

This one was posted in the previous thread, but for those who missed it:

Sources with Tampa Bay and the Sox said the sides had talked several times this offseason, not only checking out closer Bobby Jenks and his availability in a deal, but more specifically a trade that would have sent Carlos Quentin to the Rays for Carl Crawford.

The author also quotes White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen on such rumors, who says:

''A lot of people know what the White Sox need because Kenny talks to so many teams,'' Guillen said. ''Obviously, we need a leadoff hitter, left fielder, we're looking for that. But right now Carlos is prepared to have a pretty good year. The last 10 games of the season, he was the Carlos we expected.

Not to let the proverbial cat out of the bag, but Jenks fits the a similar profile of Kevin Gregg, Matt Lindstrom, and Matt Capps. Each is an end-game reliever coming off a rocky season with longball issues. Salary issues are probably going to prevent Jenks from ever donning a Rays cap, he's due at least $5.6M next season.

Brian Shouse

Good news here. Shouse declined arbitration, which means if/when he signs with another team, the Rays will receive an additional draft choice.

Milton Bradley/Pat Burrell

Nothing's changed. Here's the latest Sun Times piece to prove it.

Matt Lindstrom

A quick update on everybody's favorite Marlin reliever nowadays:

The Texas Rangers and, to a lesser degree, the Tampa Bay Rays are among teams inquiring about the Marlins' hard-throwing right-hander — even though Lindstrom had an inconsistent season.

Bobby Abreu

USA Today has a somewhat interesting note about the contract offer the Rays made last year to Abreu:

Two years ago, the Yankees gave Jorge Posada, a catcher who had turned 36 on Aug. 17, a four-year, $52 million contract. A year later, they let outfielder Bobby Abreu, then 34, walk away after he posted at least 100 RBI for the sixth season in a row.

Abreu spent most of the winter waiting for a big payday. There were plenty of offers, with 10 teams expressing interest, agent Peter Greenberg says, yet only the Tampa Bay Rays offered more than a one-year deal.

The Rays also offered more money than he wound up signing for.

Matt Capps

From the Post-Gazette:

Two sources confirmed yesterday that the Pirates have threatened to non-tender Capps, although that tends to be a negotiating tactic.

[...]

Several teams have asked the Pirates about Capps, including the Texas Rangers and Tampa Bay Rays.

---

More to come.

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Why do you kill threads????

by 4QB on Dec 8, 2009 11:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Ugh....

Maybe it was because he wanted to play outfield….but god it would have been nicer to have him than PtB

by staplemaniac on Dec 8, 2009 11:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Didn't we offer him the PtB contract?

the ghost of stokes, camp, lugo strikes TB-sept 2009

by CubFanRaysaddict on Dec 8, 2009 12:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Ozzie is priceless
The last 10 games of the season, he was the Carlos we expected.

WOOOOOOOOO WORLD SERIES HERE WE COME!!!!!!!!!!

I'm a writer.

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 8, 2009 11:58 AM EST reply actions  

Brandon Lyon Anyone?

Why do you kill threads????

by 4QB on Dec 8, 2009 11:59 AM EST reply actions  

Or Justin Duscherer?

Why do you kill threads????

by 4QB on Dec 8, 2009 12:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Why would we want the duke?

Officially now the head of the Lobstein bandwagon.

by P Brady on Dec 8, 2009 12:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Point

Why do you kill threads????

by 4QB on Dec 8, 2009 12:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Do we really need another good not great starter?

Aren’t their better ways to drop that cash?

Officially now the head of the Lobstein bandwagon.

by P Brady on Dec 8, 2009 12:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Have you heard of the bullpen before?

Also, are you really whining about adding another good pitcher?

by R.J. Anderson on Dec 8, 2009 12:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Duscherererererer doesn't want to go in the pen

He wants to start, and he feels starting fits his skill set far better.

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Dec 8, 2009 1:52 PM EST up reply actions  

OT, but humor me.

Javier Vazquez for Fielder. Maybe Freeman and another prospect thrown in. Thoughts? What about Soriano and Vazquez? The Brewers would pick up 4 picks this offseason along with the year of both guys.

by rglass44 on Dec 8, 2009 12:05 PM EST reply actions  

kericr will fight the next man that mentions fighting

Fucking Razor Ramon needs to cut back on the machismo shakes.

I'm a writer.

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 8, 2009 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Is Scott Hall dead?

I feel like he is for some reason.

I'm a Brett Favre honk so FUCK YOU!

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Dec 8, 2009 12:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Razor Ramon was the fucking shit.

Funny story about the gimmick too. When Scott Hall pitched it to Vince McMahon, McMahon thought the he was some kind of omega genius because of how creative it was; he had never seen Scarface.

I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.

by kericr on Dec 8, 2009 12:30 PM EST up reply actions  

The Quentin-Crawford swap would've been interesting

Not going to get into hardcore analysis since the talks look dead, but 4 years of Quentin for 1 of Crawford is definitely worth a discussion. Rays would be giving up speed and defense for greater offensive potential. I think flanking Quentin with a CF’er of Upton’s caliber would help his poor defense, and his batted ball numbers suggest he’s due for regression from a poor 2009. He should also be 100% after the dreaded wrist injury for a power hitter. Definitely would’ve went back and forth, but I make that deal.

www.draysbay.com

by Tommy Rancel on Dec 8, 2009 12:10 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

He might have indeed fallen asleep on that.

I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.

by kericr on Dec 8, 2009 12:20 PM EST up reply actions  

In looking at the names the Rays supposedly have an interest in,

it seems they are willing to sacrifice a little bit of defense in order to get greater power production from the outfield spots.

by FLBoy84 on Dec 8, 2009 12:18 PM EST up reply actions  

They're looking to get good players.

If power is undervalued, then they’ll go for that. When defense was undervalued, they went for that. It’s a matter of playing the market and getting good players for fewer dollars (or assets in terms of players) then they’re really worth.

by R.J. Anderson on Dec 8, 2009 12:19 PM EST up reply actions  

His RF UZR is good, with only a slightly smaller sample size than his LF

Can we assume he is about a 0 in the corners?

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Dec 8, 2009 12:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Why?

Crawford’s contract is up at the end of the season, but they own Quentin for 4 years including ’10. That seems like a fair trade to me, when you consider the picks the White Sox would get.

by staplemaniac on Dec 8, 2009 12:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Reports said there were talks, but they're all but dead

So a deal isn’t likely.

As for Quentin’s defensive value if its a 0<-5 true talent, I think Upton or Jennings would help instead of CF of the Day he’s had in Chi. Not sure of the impact on CF to a COF, but Upton can get to a lot of balls out of his zone.

www.draysbay.com

by Tommy Rancel on Dec 8, 2009 12:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

If there were to actually happen...

Why not try to move PTB, DH Carlos and put Joyce in LF, Gabes in RF again?

I'm a Brett Favre honk so FUCK YOU!

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Dec 8, 2009 12:23 PM EST up reply actions  

*this were...

I'm a Brett Favre honk so FUCK YOU!

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Dec 8, 2009 12:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Because we all hate Gross when Gross != Clutch

He had zero clutch all of last year. We can’t have average players on this team.

I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.

by kericr on Dec 8, 2009 12:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Could also do that, but I'd see if he could play the field first

He only has 2 years of data. Can’t really make a fair judgement off of that.

www.draysbay.com

by Tommy Rancel on Dec 8, 2009 12:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Why does AZ do this?

Looks bad for them, IMO.

I'm a Brett Favre honk so FUCK YOU!

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Dec 8, 2009 12:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Why does Detroit do this?

Officially now the head of the Lobstein bandwagon.

by P Brady on Dec 8, 2009 12:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Granderson needs a RH caddy.

I’m probably okay with that for them, without looking at the numbers. Schlereth has potential too, IIRC.

I'm a Brett Favre honk so FUCK YOU!

by PriceMultiCyYoungs on Dec 8, 2009 12:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Detroit doesn't have enough relief prospects.

Officially now the head of the Lobstein bandwagon.

by P Brady on Dec 8, 2009 12:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Just to make sure I'm not missing this:

Yankees get Granderson, give up a middle reliever?

I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.

by kericr on Dec 8, 2009 12:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Austin jackson

Officially now the head of the Lobstein bandwagon.

by P Brady on Dec 8, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions  

He's pretty good IIRC?

I keep saying ‘if the Yankees were smart, they’d stop trading away all their good prospects’, but here they go again.

I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.

by kericr on Dec 8, 2009 12:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Meh

I mean they got a year of Vazquez which they turned into Randy for him. He hasn’t been that good.

by rglass44 on Dec 8, 2009 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd say Robinson Cano's pretty decent.

I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.

by kericr on Dec 8, 2009 12:49 PM EST up reply actions  

...
As a Yankee, or as a player coming out of the Yankee farm system?

You never specified. I assumed you meant anyone coming out of their farm system.

I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.

by kericr on Dec 8, 2009 12:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Ahhh I didn't see that.

IMy post was in response to “I keep saying ‘if the Yankees were smart, they’d stop trading away all their good prospects’, but here they go again.” So it should be fairly evident I meant that they’ve traded.

by rglass44 on Dec 8, 2009 1:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh OK.

Yeah I can’t immediately recall anyone off the top of my head that they’ve traded away in the last few years that has amounted to anything.

I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.

by kericr on Dec 8, 2009 1:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Me either.

Navarro? no
Johnson? not really
Who knows who else. I was more asking because I couldn’t come up with any. The real question is what they’ve missed out on in the draft b/c of FA.

by rglass44 on Dec 8, 2009 1:08 PM EST up reply actions  

This is boring

Once again the headlines are dominated by the Yankees and even bit players are not moving. Somebody introduce some mescaline to these talks.

I'm a writer.

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 8, 2009 12:55 PM EST reply actions  

i hate it

mlb.com winter meetings video, they keep talking about the Yankees and Red Sox

and that is not the CC update I was hoping for

Who do we want? Roy Halladay! When do we want him? NOW

by joeybw on Dec 8, 2009 1:22 PM EST reply actions  

Heyman's Column

One extreme longshot team in the Halladay derby is the Rays, who kicked tires with the Blue Jays about their ace. A person familiar with the talks said it’s “extremely unlikely” that Halladay ends up in Tampa Bay.

Officially now the head of the Lobstein bandwagon.

by P Brady on Dec 8, 2009 1:27 PM EST reply actions  

the rumor is just gonna make him going to NY/BOS more annoying

unless we can dump PTB and then some, we cant afford him :(

Who do we want? Roy Halladay! When do we want him? NOW

by joeybw on Dec 8, 2009 1:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Quintin for Crawford would be a stupid trade.

Quintin hit .236 last year. CC would be gift to the white sox for the price of Quintin.

Blah!

by thebaddancingraysfan on Dec 8, 2009 1:42 PM EST reply actions  

BABIP .223

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Dec 8, 2009 1:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Heyman has the trade apparently official

SI_JonHeyman
  
yanks to get granderson, e. jackson, i. kennedy to dbacks, scherzer, schlereth, a. jax, coke to tigers.

Vroom vroom party starter
www.raysprospects.com

by Imperialism32 on Dec 8, 2009 1:49 PM EST reply actions  

Tigers and Yankees did well

D’backs overpaid way too much

Who do we want? Roy Halladay! When do we want him? NOW

by joeybw on Dec 8, 2009 1:52 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah

Gotta wonder if this starts the complete rebuilding. Cabrera to the Sox?

by rglass44 on Dec 8, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Reminds me of that poem about my kindom for a nail

If Maggs had missed more games this move might be a moot point.

I'm a writer.

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 8, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Only thing that sucks is that we only got Joyce for Jackson

Seems like the Tigers are flipping him for quite a bit more.

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Dec 8, 2009 2:00 PM EST reply actions  

Not surprising he was an All Star

Of course he would not have been had he stayed in the ALE or had his 2nd half first.

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Dec 8, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Kyon is in the bottom right. ^_^

Officially now the head of the Lobstein bandwagon.

by P Brady on Dec 8, 2009 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

He isn't

But what would have Granderson have gotten? Perhaps just Scherzer & Coke?

Which means Ejax is worth around an Austin Jackson. I’d rather him than Joyce…But each his own.

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Dec 8, 2009 2:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes. Edwin Jackson would net Austin Jackson.

Silly Tigers. They said “Here, have Granderson too!”

by R.J. Anderson on Dec 8, 2009 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

You do know they are getting Scherzer as well...?

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Dec 8, 2009 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

"Silly Tigers. They said "Here, have Granderson too!""

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Dec 8, 2009 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Do you not have basic reading comprehension?

Officially now the head of the Lobstein bandwagon.

by P Brady on Dec 8, 2009 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

He just somehow forgot the Tigers got more pieces than just Jackson

I was just reminding him.

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Dec 8, 2009 2:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Do you ever make useful comments about baseball?

The only time you ever say anything is when RJ is an argument and you come running to his defense. I think he can take care of himself, chief.

by RaysTheRoof on Dec 8, 2009 5:37 PM EST up reply actions  

How far off is simply a..

Scherzer & Coke for Granderson deal?

Jackson & Coke for Granderson deal?

If any of those deals are remotely close, then you by default you’d have to say Ejax is close to the value of Jackson or Scherzer.

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Dec 8, 2009 2:10 PM EST up reply actions  

So answer the question

How far off is…

Scherzer & Coke for Granderson deal?

Jackson & Coke for Granderson deal?

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Dec 8, 2009 2:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Again answer the question...

How far off is…

Scherzer & Coke for Granderson deal?

Jackson & Coke for Granderson deal?

I’m just trying to bring logic to the table. If either of those deals are close, then you have to say that Ejax is close to value to one of those players. It is basic logic.

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Dec 8, 2009 2:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Either way there is no major reason to rehash Ejax

We all know his value is significantly higher now than what it was previously. It is what it is. Hopefully Joyce pans out.

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Dec 8, 2009 2:16 PM EST up reply actions  

There is a significant disconnect between how good he is and his market value

I’m not saying he is a great player, or that he is even good. Just that his market value is higher.

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Dec 8, 2009 2:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I never used the word perennial...

And he was in fact a Cy Young candidate for the bulk of the season. That still doesn’t mean he is a great pitcher. The award is flawed and focuses on perception. Perception doesn’t equal reality.

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Dec 8, 2009 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Okay:
On a serious note it does look like Edwin is getting lucky with his K’s and Walks this year

But on the flip side he was unlucky last year with those two metrics.

Factor in that his stuff is a bit better, and he is throwing a better combination of his pitches and you get better results too. That leads me to believe that this is closer to his future performance than say last year. This is probably his peak though.

Is he a Cy Young contender year in and year out? No

But there is a good shot he can be a top 10 AL starter for the next 5 years.

http://www.draysbay.com/2009/7/21/956137/who-are-you-and-what-have-you-done#18448779

Top 10 AL starter for the next 5 years != Cy Young contender?

by matthan on Jul 21, 2009

by R.J. Anderson on Dec 8, 2009 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

This was supposed to be my part of the comment:

Top 10 AL starter for the next 5 years != Cy Young contender?

by R.J. Anderson on Dec 8, 2009 2:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Again it is about perception

Jackson had a boatload of wins and a decent ERA for a lot of the season. That gets you into the Cy Young talk regardless of how good you are.

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Dec 8, 2009 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Of course it is

That is how every single end of the year award is given out.

I’m not saying Jackson is a great pitcher because he was in the Cy Young talk last year. If anything I’m saying that is why the award is flawed.

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Dec 8, 2009 2:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Your boy RJ brought it up

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Dec 8, 2009 2:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Hello

Signature space available for rent - Got to pay the bills somehow

by Buc Wild on Dec 8, 2009 2:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Lee Caz is one of my mortal enemies.

I have no “boys”. I am but a lone reed.

Signature space available for rent - Got to pay the bills somehow

by Buc Wild on Dec 8, 2009 2:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Gross

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Dec 8, 2009 2:37 PM EST up reply actions  

If RJ is kericr's boy, and Buc Wild is RJ's boy

Does that make kericr jealous of Buc Wild?

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Dec 8, 2009 2:32 PM EST up reply actions  

...
watch your language. Your boy over here would have had to do the same post. I just got the phone as its my blog now. —-Some dirty Greek piece of crap

I can't wait until we trade him for a reliever.

by kericr on Dec 8, 2009 2:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Note

I had nothing to do with this

I'm a writer.

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 8, 2009 2:35 PM EST up reply actions  

He wasn't in the Cy Young talk.

He regressed. 13 W 3.62 ERA isn’t Cy Young worthy. It’s simple baseball knowledge. Get with it.

by R.J. Anderson on Dec 8, 2009 2:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm assuming you didn't watch any baseball analysts around mid-season then?

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Dec 8, 2009 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

harsh words

for a Joyce supportist.

by Sylar on Dec 8, 2009 2:33 PM EST up reply actions  

So?

Nobody here is saying Jackson is a great pitcher, that he should have won the Cy Young, or that his actual value is anything great.

Ive been saying, repeatedly, that his market value is up due to the perception of his 2009; especially the 1st half of 2009.

That does not mean that he is a great valuable pitcher.

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Dec 8, 2009 2:37 PM EST up reply actions  

But

he IS a great valuable pitcher.

by Sylar on Dec 8, 2009 2:38 PM EST up reply actions  

You do realize what you're saying is

“Teams focus more on the first half than the second half”

That’s stupid. If anything, it’s the other way around, especially given his history.

by R.J. Anderson on Dec 8, 2009 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

DING DING DING

And we have a winner.

All it takes is 1 stupid GM that values the wrong things.

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Dec 8, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

DING DING DING

Jackson’s FIP and tRA were also down. Maybe, they were looking at those?

by R.J. Anderson on Dec 8, 2009 2:43 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm saying that based on his w/l record, his era, and the publicity he got will cause at least 1 team to value him far more than what his real worth is.

Especially compared to 2008.

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Dec 8, 2009 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Without any sarcasm or animosity

can I just say its nice to have you back. I’ve missed these “debates” the last few months

Signature space available for rent - Got to pay the bills somehow

by Buc Wild on Dec 8, 2009 2:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Will you outline your argument please?

It seems to me you’re saying that he’s overvalued because he was in the CY talks at midseason. If that’s it let me know, so I can stop reading your posts.

by rglass44 on Dec 8, 2009 2:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Jacksons market value right now is higher than it was previously

This is because of his performance in 2009.

I’m not saying he is better, worse, or as good as he was ni 2008. That is irrelevant to the discussion.

I’m talking about market value. Last year he was worth Joyce…this year he is worth….? What will the most retarded GM in the league give up for Edwin Jackson in 2009?

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Dec 8, 2009 2:40 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not sure his value is that much higher.

Remember along with his first half success he also used up a year of arb. He may have a higher perceived value in a vaccuum, but his actual value is lower.

by rglass44 on Dec 8, 2009 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Actual value != Perceived value

You’re all right, but you’re not alright.

I'm a writer.

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 8, 2009 2:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree with that

I think he is maybe a slightly better pitcher, but now is more costly. If I was a GM I’d give up around the same as I would have given up last year.

Which if I was a GM I wouldn’t have given up a Joyce or a Scherzer for Jackson…this year or last.

But the key is market value. The Rays focus on market inefficiencies. Trading a player that has a higher market value than real value is one of the only ways the Rays can contend.

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Dec 8, 2009 2:45 PM EST up reply actions  

A joyce?

Are you seriously stating Joyce to be anything even remotely rememorable as a good let alone decent deal?

by Sylar on Dec 8, 2009 2:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't believe that last paragraph.

If that were true people would write a book on it or something.

by R.J. Anderson on Dec 8, 2009 2:46 PM EST up reply actions  

It seems that some of you folks lose focus of that sometimes

All I’ve been saying this entire time has been that it sucks that the market inefficiency grew wider the year after we traded Jackson. Based on many of your responses it sure seemed like you disagreed with that statement.

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Dec 8, 2009 2:51 PM EST up reply actions  

You're forgetting to factor in the

2M in savings we had for the year, Niemann put up comparable numbers as a 3.

I'm a writer.

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 8, 2009 2:56 PM EST up reply actions  

The issue is I think you're undervaluing the other assets.

Jackson didn’t fetch A. Jackson or Scherzer. There were a bunch of other moving parts.

by rglass44 on Dec 8, 2009 2:46 PM EST up reply actions  

IMHO we are all undervaluing the mv of Granderson

He fetched Jackson, Kennedy, and Coke. His real value is a fair bit less than that IMO.

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Dec 8, 2009 2:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Not sure I agree.

I think his MV is pretty high and should be. He’s a 4-5 WAR player making the following: $5.5M, 11:$8.25M, 12:$10M, 13:$13M club option ($2M buyout). That’s pretty valuable right there.

by rglass44 on Dec 8, 2009 2:58 PM EST up reply actions  

All things equal one would expect ERA and prob wins to be lower outside ALE

So this will not be the last time perception of an ex-Ray changes. Holding on another year would not make a difference.

Follow Me on Twitter @FreeZorilla

by FreeZorilla on Dec 8, 2009 2:32 PM EST up reply actions  

And he shouldn't have gotten any votes

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Dec 8, 2009 2:28 PM EST up reply actions  

So you guys are really defending how the voters of the MVP, Cy Young, etc pick their winners?

I could have sworn many of you disapproved of what they deemed important.

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Dec 8, 2009 2:30 PM EST up reply actions  

By value I mean market value

Not the value that an intelligent team would assign to him

Can we get robots for umpires and a computer to make in game strategy decisions? I'm sick of inconsistently bad umpiring and Joe's pitiful in game management. Oh and Navi (and BJ) need some PED's. BenZo, Bartlett, and Pena do not.

by matthan on Dec 8, 2009 2:18 PM EST up reply actions  

1. Not that far off

2. Really far off

Officially now the head of the Lobstein bandwagon.

by P Brady on Dec 8, 2009 2:17 PM EST up reply actions  

i too would rather have Austin Jackson

detroit won this trade, they get a potential top of the line starter in Scherzer, a Top Prospect in Jackson, and 2 pretty good leftys for the bullpen

Vikings 4 the superbowl

by RaysOfHope on Dec 8, 2009 2:07 PM EST up reply actions  

We know Arizona lost

Officially now the head of the Lobstein bandwagon.

by P Brady on Dec 8, 2009 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

that

Who do we want? Roy Halladay! When do we want him? NOW

by joeybw on Dec 8, 2009 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Really?

Webb, Haren, Jackson? That’s a pretty badass 1-2-3.

by Thaddeus? on Dec 8, 2009 2:10 PM EST up reply actions  

This.

Grandy adds to the Yanks’ OF, but Detroit just stole good ‘spects and E-Jax will help bolster an already pretty decent D’Back’s rotation…only 2010 will tell.

by Thaddeus? on Dec 8, 2009 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

So I wonder what star we will be rumored to be going after today

maybe we’ll continue to hear Halladay rumors!

Who do we want? Roy Halladay! When do we want him? NOW

by joeybw on Dec 8, 2009 2:17 PM EST reply actions  

well i for one think this puts the yankees out of the Halladay rumors

unless they want to trade Hughes and Chamberlain

Vikings 4 the superbowl

by RaysOfHope on Dec 8, 2009 2:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Ditto.

Which opens up the Red Sox option, but honestly I don’t see them giving up enough for Stephenopopoluous or whatever would want. They didn’t get him in July, what would change?

I think he goes to the NL, and not until next year.

by Thaddeus? on Dec 8, 2009 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

So are Scherzer & AJax any better than Maybin & Miller

Seems like they got a couple of real good players, while acknowledging that they probably won’t be very competitive next year. Now would be the time to offer a Wade Davis/Beej Upton for Verlander. Trolling, sort of.

I'm a writer.

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 8, 2009 2:31 PM EST reply actions  

I don't see it

Their offense is going to be deplorable and who’s a legit AL starter behind Verlander? Sox have the best rotation in the division, Twins, dare I say it, should have the best offense, the Tigers are a mess of pre-maturely ended 3 year plans.

I'm a writer.

by Andy Hellicksonstine on Dec 8, 2009 2:35 PM EST up reply actions  

What's a strike out?

                                           - RIck Porcello, 2009

Officially now the head of the Lobstein bandwagon.

by P Brady on Dec 8, 2009 2:50 PM EST up reply actions  

His K/9 was awful...

but is he not a “legit” AL pitcher? He pitched as one of the top 30 starters last year.

Boom. Outta Here.

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